Review Round 17, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. West Coast

[martinson]

I would think they're reticent to put actual metrics/KPI's out there to avoid undue pressure. I think just the confirmation that they think a little differently the the average supporters' view of goal output = worth when it comes to forwards is informative.

I actually think most of the supporters have acknowledged Linc's defensive efforts over the last few weeks.

I don't think there's much between he and Cal all round but there's no way they won't be playing Linc. If we could get the two of them in there somehow it really frees up space for your more offensive players like Rayner and Bailey.

Gunston finding form has created a bit of a dilemma coming in to finals and we'll just have to see how it goes over the next 3 or 4 weeks.

 

[Rosscoe_666]

Ah Chees played 1 full game this season and Linc has never played reserves.

I can't see Fagan changing his mind

Neither can I, but I live in hope

 

[buttermuffs]

I actually think most of the supporters have acknowledged Linc's defensive efforts over the last few weeks.

I don't think there's much between he and Cal all round but there's no way they won't be playing Linc. If we could get the two of them in there somehow it really frees up space for your more offensive players like Rayner and Bailey.

Gunston finding form has created a bit of a dilemma coming in to finals and we'll just have to see how it goes over the next 3 or 4 weeks.

On another note sometimes pressure is hard to record statistically. I know I saw something a couple rounds ago which said that Gunston and Hipwood were statistically equal in terms of their pressure which didn’t feel true at all.

 

[Grasshopper17]

On another note sometimes pressure is hard to record statistically. I know I saw something a couple rounds ago which said that Gunston and Hipwood were statistically equal in terms of their pressure which didn’t feel true at all.

The more I see pressure numbers the more I think it is a massively overrated stat. The Grand Final last year was between the greatest pressure team in the history of the game (apparently) and a team whose pressure was generally below average. Exhibit A, your honour.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I actually think most of the supporters have acknowledged Linc's defensive efforts over the last few weeks.

I often see comments of "player x has been a bit quiet". Thats being kind in some cases. And using possession counts to back up these simplistic statements. Not directed at yourself and not necessarily directed at all BigFooty citizens. I can definitely think of a few who spring to mind though.

Doesn't matter where they play on the ground, sometimes it pays to consider that a player is playing a role that forces them to not show up so much on the publicly available stats sheets.

 

[martinson]

I often see comments of "player x has been a bit quiet". Thats being kind in some cases. And using possession counts to back up these simplistic statements. Not directed at yourself and not necessarily directed at all BigFooty citizens. I can definitely think of a few who spring to mind though.

Doesn't matter where they play on the ground, sometimes it pays to consider that a player is playing a role that forces them to not show up so much on the publicly available stats sheets.

I think it's gradually seeping in to the broader footy community that stats are only part of the story and sometimes not indicative of a player's importance for the team at all.

One thing I've become increasingly aware of is that the stats often aren't particularly accurate .The definition of 'effective' is one that seems to not be recorded accurately,. Moreover players can rack up a lot of stats in meaningless chains that were never going anywhere whereas another player can do one thing that's worth 4 or 5 that someone else racked up.

 

[Elixuh]

If the coaches think Cal is a player for us then he needs to be playing full games in the seniors and not sub. Has missed too much footy this year to be mucking around. Maybe that means Fletcher sub.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I think it's gradually seeping in to the broader footy community that stats are only part of the story and sometimes not indicative of a player's importance for the team at all.

One thing I've become increasingly aware of is that the stats often aren't particularly accurate .The definition of 'effective' is one that seems to not be recorded accurately,. Moreover players can rack up a lot of stats in meaningless chains that were never going anywhere whereas another player can do one thing that's worth 4 or 5 that someone else racked up.

Yep, I would put Cam into the category of damaging possessions - players who can be very creative with disposal. Linc is another one.

Not that I would classify give-and-get handball chain as totally useless. They often disorientate opposition. But yeah, they can sometime inflate the amount of influence a player might have.

 

[martinson]

Yep, I would put Cam into the category of damaging possessions - players who can be very creative with disposal. Linc is another one.

Not that I would classify give-and-get handball chain as totally useless. They often disorientate opposition. But yeah, they can sometime inflate the amount of influence a player might have.

Richy when he was at his top was very damaging. Cam likewise can pierce the opposition defence but sometimes lets himself down with the disposal. We live in hope that he cleans this up and he could become an extremely damaging player with 12-15 disposals.

Tackles is another one that gets me. A tackle where you chase/intercept and bring down a player who was otherwise breaking free for a scoring chain is monumentally more important than the stacks on the mill variety where the opposition was going nowhere and they all pile on.

 

[M Malice]

Rayner's disposal into F50 is very good, need him up and around the ball as much as he can handle endurance wise, having 3 very good options by foot going forward in Cam, Kiddy and Clugga would be fantastic.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Yep, I would put Cam into the category of damaging possessions - players who can be very creative with disposal. Linc is another one.

Not that I would classify give-and-get handball chain as totally useless. They often disorientate opposition. But yeah, they can sometime inflate the amount of influence a player might have.

Sometimes depends on whether the handball chain goes to a good player on the outside , running off each other verses stagnant players recieving and dishing up handballs to a player under attack .
Best way to look at this is Collingwood verses the bulldogs. I think the pies run off each other, handball out of congestion to a player like Daicos or previously Penndles and those two can pin point a kick that opens the attack.
Daicos's one two handballs are underrated , it usually outnumbers the defender and he can be open for a long enough to make something happen.

 

[Jim Stynes11]

Sometimes depends on whether the handball chain goes to a good player on the outside , running off each other verses stagnant players recieving and dishing up handballs to a player under attack .
Best way to look at this is Collingwood verses the bulldogs. I think the pies run off each other, handball out of congestion to a player like Daicos or previously Penndles and those two can pin point a kick that opens the attack.
Daicos's one two handballs are underrated , it usually outnumbers the defender and he can be open for a long enough to make something happen.

Really didn't expect to see the words 'Daicos' and 'underrated' used in the same sentence here. Who is not rating Daicos one two handballs?!

All the chat I've seen in the media seem to suggest this tactic of his has reinvented football

 

[p4p1]

Richy when he was at his top was very damaging. Cam likewise can pierce the opposition defence but sometimes lets himself down with the disposal. We live in hope that he cleans this up and he could become an extremely damaging player with 12-15 disposals.

Tackles is another one that gets me. A tackle where you chase/intercept and bring down a player who was otherwise breaking free for a scoring chain is monumentally more important than the stacks on the mill variety where the opposition was going nowhere and they all pile on.

It was one of Browny's stories I believe, but the player he mentioned noticed that if you tackled an already tackled/grounded player you would get a stat for a tackle. So this guys tackle stats were great but the majority of them were not effective.

 

[Section 5]

It was one of Browny's stories I believe, but the player he mentioned noticed that if you tackled an already tackled/grounded player you would get a stat for a tackle. So this guys tackle stats were great but the majority of them were not effective.

Like just about everything in AFL there are grey arears.
Link below to champion data FAQ's. There are only 10 examples with 7 videos.
I can only assume they update the FAQ as there are clearly lots more that need explaining.


Tackles

Q: What if there is more than one player applying a tackle?

A: After a tackle has been applied, if a second player or a third player (and so on) from the same team arrive and also apply a tackle and they have an impact on the ball carrier, then they’ll get awarded with a tackle too. If they don’t impact the ball carrier, then they won’t get paid a tackle.

Vision Example: Callum Ah Chee (#4) applied the initial tackle on Jason Johannisen before Oscar McInerney (#46) makes physical contact with Ah Chee. McInerney didn’t impact the player in possession and hence, he wasn’t credited with a tackle.

FAQs – AFL – Champion Data

www.championdata.com

 

[Nathan Barley]

Interesting listening to Murray Davis on the roar deal talking about how Gunston needed to study postage and learn about our game style

More about adjusting to his teammates rather than somehow transforming our ball movement like many were suggesting

 

[Brett C]

I would think they're reticent to put actual metrics/KPI's out there to avoid undue pressure. I think just the confirmation that they think a little differently the the average supporters' view of goal output = worth when it comes to forwards is informative.

Would be like supporters who only rate performance based on supercoach scores.