Preview Round 2 - Geelong v North, 1:10pm Sunday 2 April @ Etihad

[Art Vandelay_]

Stewart I was surprised by, but not especially by the others. I think for Lang and Menegola, they may not have been especially bad, but they certainly weren't especially good. I don't think either did enough to warrant selection, and if not for injury to Cockatoo I don't think either would be close this week. It may come down to who can provide a forward option as well as midfield time. Which could tip the balance towards Lang.

I disagree, think it tips it towards Menegola tbh. Their goals per game are similar but Lang hasn't shown he can play midfield well. Menegola has.

 

[00VicWard001]

Personally, I don't think that it's as unlikely as it may seem. I agree with you that we should be willing to give it a go and I think that the MC will be much more open to it this year than last.

The reasons are these...

- With the removal of 3rd man up this will only encourage the MC to play Blitz as the 2nd ruck once again in order to maximise his assets. They've already showed a willingness to do this as early as round one against Sandilands so I don't see why they won't be open to it in the future.

- Over the pre season Blitz has explicitly said in a press conference that he expects to be spending more time in the ruck this year compared to last.

- I don't buy for a second that Smith was out injured on the wknd. No way. Scott's excuse for Smith being a late out was lame and he was never going to admit to pulling him out late for tactical reasons. Coaches never do.

- Moving Taylor forward lessens the need to play a 2nd ruckman ahead of the ball when resting to supposedly support Hawkins. Infact, you could make a good argument to suggest that we would be too top heavy down there if we were to go in that direction at the selection table.

- Lastly, judging by the way that we played and the personnel that we chose for round 1 it seems apparent that we will be attempting to move the ball alot quicker and with more purpose this season compared to last. This should only encourage us to go a bit smaller so that the team is better suited to a fast paced, high intensity game.

The two rucks served us well last season on the smaller grounds where we would intend to move the ball slowly, particularly out of our back half therefore creating more stoppages. In high intensity games on the big grounds such as the PF against the Swans I'm not sure that playing the 2 big blokes was the way to go and I'm hoping that the MC share my thoughts and have learned some lessons heading into this season. Early signs are that they have.

They have said repeatedly during the preseason that they wanted to run It out more, be more unpredictable and use chaos football. This can only happen with what you've pointed out above. A lot of it is also trial and error. It seemed to work on a dominant ruckman with a strong midfield. So it should work better on a slightly less dominant ruckman and with a less strong midfield.

I think it will really trouble the Roos. Having Blicavs go forward, midfield, wings and back when not in the ruck, means that someone has to switch and cover him because the second ruckman opposing him will be resting on the pine or forward when not rucking.

 

[00VicWard001]

IF Harry does an encore of that performance, he could end up missing out. He has a lot of credits, but...

He did everything he was supposed to do. Playing in his role isn't just simply measured by goals or marks.

 

[Kimbo]

I love this! Norf pensioned off their greatest ever player who was still in ripping form so they could keep this injury prone potatoe on their list. **** they're a pathetic club.

Well, we're doing something right to get up your nose.

You know they're not 'like for like', right? Boomer isn't our greatest ever player, just our longest serving. Yes, he'd still get a game this year, but the rationale was much more about the future development of our list. With Petrie gone, and the likes of Daw and McKay not ready, it was a prudent call to keep Waite on the list. Yes, he's injured, but it was a collision injury, so 'injury prone' doesn't really fit.

Love the potatoe call. Dan Quayle approves this spelling.



But, speaking of potatoes, would have loved to have kept Spud, instead of Thompson.

 

[Turbocat]

Well, we're doing something right to get up your nose.

You know they're not 'like for like', right? Boomer isn't our greatest ever player, just our longest serving. Yes, he'd still get a game this year, but the rationale was much more about the future development of our list. With Petrie gone, and the likes of Daw and McKay not ready, it was a prudent call to keep Waite on the list. Yes, he's injured, but it was a collision injury, so 'injury prone' doesn't really fit.

Love the potatoe call. Dan Quayle approves this spelling.



But, speaking of potatoes, would have loved to have kept Spud, instead of Thompson.

Not much different to us with SJ or Chappy or Kelly . Every club has hard choices with their champs that want to keep going.

 

[Bobby_]

Your glass is always so,half empty bobby. I genuinely feel sad for you. You actually distort truth so that the negative paradigm you want to remain in actually appears real. I'm not gonna bother engaging you on this stuff anymore. You don't listen or consider any logic or reason that sits outside your predetermined negative narrative. I hope you're not negative/bitter like this in other parts of your life, it would be a depressing plaice to dwell if so.

Your very wrong Cats.
I do listen and I do take in what people say all the time. The negativity is drawn from what I have witnessed by the club. You of all people told us before the Hawthorn final, and I quote "You (Hawthorn poster) don't have a big strong key forward who can take a pack mark and win you a game. You're gonna get flogged. Absolutely smashed."
You also said we were absolute certainties against Sydney in the prelim.

Can you at least see why I have a negative view after seeing those finals.
Why flog Hawthorn in round one only to scrape over the line in a final?

Anyways, that's done now and we can only hope we have learned from those mistakes and improve to the point we can go into a final and win a game on our terms. Something like a 2-4 goal victory would be nice.

 

[catempire]

Round 2 Preview Geelong v North Melbourne

Admittedly I didn't watch the North v WCE match and I didn't see a single one of there JLT matches. But I watched the highlights video so that has to count for something.

In the Chris Scott era North has been a slight boogie-team for us and we a spirited 5-5 record against them. Last year North was perceived to be the old sick man of the AFL with an average age of there 22 being 27 years and 230 days with a total of 3300 games of experience. Thus over the offseason North has undergone a significant list clean out and seen a significant reduction in age and experience however it would would be wrong to say that there team is young and inexperienced. In the weekend their average age was 25 years 208 days with 2118 games of experience which would both be close to the competition average.

If we move from the number to the names we can see that our prior record against them loses a lot of relevance. With Harvey, Wells and Dal Santo no longer at the club their once formidable outside mid group has been gutted. And with the forced retirement of Petrie and the injury to Waite, North won't be fielding a 3 KPF forward line which was the part of their structure which separated them from the rest of the competition.

North's Form
In round 1 North suffered a 43 point loss to the WCE despite being 9 points up at QT. New Captain Jack Ziebell lead the way with 31 disposals, 8 I50s and a goal and aparently Shawn Higgins is now an inside mid as he gathered 25 disposals (14 CP) and a massive 11 clearances. Waite's radar was amiss as he kicked 1.7 despite his injury he still managed to take 6 marks I50 and showing that he'll be a significant out for North. Of there six new additions to the 22, it is fair to say that they had a minimal impact with Hrovat having the most of the ball with his 14 disposals.

Against WCE, North was unable to turn a hitout domination(51-27) into an significant advantage in the contests(37-36 CL, 137-131 CP 20-16 FF). Having played against Sandilands, our team has undergone a great prep for Goldstien and Pruess (who stands at 206cm making him possibly the tallest second ruck in AFL history.) While WCE dominated the outside game winning the UP count by 81, the kick count by 58 and the mark count by 61. Both teams had little issue taking marks I50 with each side ending the game on 19. North had the lowest K to H ratio (adj for shots on goal) of all teams at 0.8 (our K to H ratio adj was 1)

Our Form
With our disastrous form during the all important JLT competition almost all hope had been lost. However like Ross Lyon we were ambushed by the Cat's performance.

Many hallmarks of our output last year were completely reversed. Our usual dominance of the clearances and I50s were reversed while our conversion of our chances were at a level not seen in a long time exceeding our expected score by 27 points. However it is good to see that our CM marking remains dominant. It is interesting to note that our game against Freemantle had 94 I50s the lowest total of the round (the WCE and North game had a total of 108 I50 which is right on the round average). Given the unique circumstances of the game it is impossible to know our games will result in a similar output in the coming weeks.

While the commentators were desperate to fill the dead air with Dangerwood and Dangerwatch, it was Duncan who broke through the shackles with his return to form coinciding with increased gametime as an inside mid. GHS proved himself to be the real bull at the contest as he repeatedly feed out handballs and knock ons despite being gang tackled. Stanley and Blicavs contested well against Sandliands at the stoppages and were mobile around the ground with each taking 3 contested marks. After a quiet first quarter Menzel came alive in 2nd quarter and broke open the game. Ruggles made Suban his bitch. While Taylor was unable to hit the scoreboard himself he demanded respect from the opponent and showed great second efforts once he brought the ball to ground this also freed up Hawkins to spend more time further up the ground. Our defense did a great job of intercepting Freemantle's attacking forays with Henderson winning 7 intercept possessions (3 of the marks) Mackie and Ruggles had 8 each while Stewart and Lonergan amassed 5.

I could go on about pretty much each players contribution there were very few passengers.

Prediction
We will win by 30 points. We simply have better players on almost every line and the team effort is there. The only advantage the have against us is in the ruck which we now have experience negating.

In Lang
Out Cockatoo

Since Smith hasn't played in almost a month he should get a run in the VFL.

Nicely done. Copied to OP.

 

[Bobby_]

With Waite out surely we don't need to worry too much about KPD depth? At least for this week I would have thought it's just Daw and Brown.

They may have to play Preuss in ruck for most of the game and leave Goldstein one out in the square. I'd suspect Lonergan would then get the job.
Daw becomes the 2nd ruck.

They can't afford to shift Tarrant because Hawkins has Thompson's measure and Hansen will likely go to Taylor.

 

[GeelongFTW]

They may have to play Preuss in ruck for most of the game and leave Goldstein one out in the square. I'd suspect Lonergan would then get the job.
Daw becomes the 2nd ruck.

They can't afford to shift Tarrant because Hawkins has Thompson's measure and Hansen will likely go to Taylor.

The north board want thompson dropped.

 

[Bobby_]

The north board want thompson dropped.

He's not had a full preseason either and only played one JLT game so perhaps he needs to be dropped to gain his fitness?

May go in their favor also. An extra small and they would just have to hope like hell Tarrant and Hansen can play a very good game as there will be no one else to switch around.

 

[GeelongFTW]

He's not had a full preseason either and only played one JLT game so perhaps he needs to be dropped to gain his fitness?

he 30 so maybe he's just cooked.

 

[candiehappy]

and I quote "You (Hawthorn poster) don't have a big strong key forward who can take a pack mark and win you a game. You're gonna get flogged. Absolutely smashed."

just as an aside, anything said to a hawks supporter should not be used against you !!!

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Well, we're doing something right to get up your nose.

You know they're not 'like for like', right? Boomer isn't our greatest ever player, just our longest serving. Yes, he'd still get a game this year, but the rationale was much more about the future development of our list. With Petrie gone, and the likes of Daw and McKay not ready, it was a prudent call to keep Waite on the list. Yes, he's injured, but it was a collision injury, so 'injury prone' doesn't really fit.

Love the potatoe call. Dan Quayle approves this spelling. this



But, speaking of potatoes, would have loved to have kept Spud, instead of Thompson.

* me. Reading your pathetic dribbling excuses is like listening to a freo supporter tell me how singing Ross Lyin until 20/20 was a great move.

You're either deluded or a liar. I suspect it's a bit of both.

Run along now. You should go soak up as much time at Arden st as possible. Because you're most likely gonna have to go to Blundstone arena to watch them train before Ross Lyin finishes this contract.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Your very wrong Cats.
I do listen and I do take in what people say all the time. The negativity is drawn from what I have witnessed by the club. You of all people told us before the Hawthorn final, and I quote "You (Hawthorn poster) don't have a big strong key forward who can take a pack mark and win you a game. You're gonna get flogged. Absolutely smashed."
You also said we were absolute certainties against Sydney in the prelim.

Can you at least see why I have a negative view after seeing those finals.
Why flog Hawthorn in round one only to scrape over the line in a final?

Anyways, that's done now and we can only hope we have learned from those mistakes and improve to the point we can go into a final and win a game on our terms. Something like a 2-4 goal victory would be nice.

Fair enough mate. I just prefer to look at the positives. We looked better than every side at points last year. And yes we got done in the prelim. But imo our best footy last year was better than anyone else's, including the Dogs.

 

[Vdubs]

It's fascinating how we see different things sometimes VD. Have to say I'm very, very worried about Taylor and don't think he's found a new lease on life; he's looking like he's on his very last legs. Looked a yard slower than last year and more worrying that leg speed is reaction speed.

Hope I'm wrong though.

Sorry P, you have misread my post. I said TH = Hawkins appears to have that new lease. Harry did look tired and a bit reactive/slow, but the decoy role exists, I believe.

 

[Bobby_]

Fair enough mate. I just prefer to look at the positives. We looked better than every side at points last year. And yes we got done in the prelim. But imo our best footy last year was better than anyone else's, including the Dogs.

Hence why there is so much divide as in my view, our best footy should be produced a lot more regularly than what it does and that for me comes down to the senior coach. Obviously a topic which has created great angst over the last 12-18 months particularly.

 

[Kimbo]

They may have to play Preuss in ruck for most of the game and leave Goldstein one out in the square. I'd suspect Lonergan would then get the job.
Daw becomes the 2nd ruck.

Personally I wouldn't even worry about Daw. But, either way, your suggestion re Preuss and Goldie (which I too have thought is doable) is too lateral for our coaching panel.

They can't afford to shift Tarrant because Hawkins has Thompson's measure and Hansen will likely go to Taylor.

The north board want thompson dropped.

He's not had a full preseason either and only played one JLT game so perhaps he needs to be dropped to gain his fitness?

May go in their favor also. An extra small and they would just have to hope like hell Tarrant and Hansen can play a very good game as there will be no one else to switch around.

he 30 so maybe he's just cooked.

Yeah, the increasing view is that he's cooked. Certainly a shadow of his AA self. His pre-season was delayed due to rehab with his groin that troubled him in the latter part of 2016 too. So, it could be the lack of fitness, but I reckon he's cooked.

If he (or Hansen, or both) aren't in, it means giving our 2014 draftees, Sam Durdin and/or Ed Vickers-Willis a go. Both were in decent JLT form, but both would be debutants.

 

[Daniel McL]

My question about our Rucks is in this week's episode of Tweet the Coach

Have to ask the question really nicely if you want them to put it in the video which is hard hahaha... I just wanted to say "F***ing only pick two of Smith/Stanley/Blitz that's one of the reasons we looked much better already in Round 1 it's not that f***ing hard!"

 

[Stan The Caddy]

IF Harry does an encore of that performance, he could end up missing out. He has a lot of credits, but...

He won't be missing out mate.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Why flog Hawthorn in round one only to scrape over the line in a final?

Really Bobby? I'd expect you to know better than to think round one form = finals form.

 

[Bobby_]

Really Bobby? I'd expect you to know better than to think round one form = finals form.

Considering we went 7-1 after the bye (the loss was the first week back from the bye), and had an average winning margin of 44 points in comparison to Hawthorn who went 6-2 and snuck over the line by less than 5 points in two of those games, I would have thought our form was quite superior.
It's why most of the board predicted a win, not just a win, but an easy win given they lost Ceglar and were without their best forward on the eve of the finals.

I mean the last two weeks of the season illustrated the form guide between both clubs.

 

[Toe Poke]

Stewart I was surprised by, but not especially by the others. I think for Lang and Menegola, they may not have been especially bad, but they certainly weren't especially good. I don't think either did enough to warrant selection, and if not for injury to Cockatoo I don't think either would be close this week. It may come down to who can provide a forward option as well as midfield time. Which could tip the balance towards Lang.

Thanks for your thoughts. I guess Menegola and Lang will get games throughout the season anyway, so they'll have opportunity to prove that they should be higher up in the pecking order.

Geelong's team already includes Menzel, McCarthy, Motlop and Murdoch, who are more than handy around the goals. I don't think goal-kicking ability should be a big factor in choosing Cockatoo's replacement.

 

[00VicWard001]

Considering we went 7-1 after the bye (the loss was the first week back from the bye), and had an average winning margin of 44 points in comparison to Hawthorn who went 6-2 and snuck over the line by less than 5 points in two of those games, I would have thought our form was quite superior.
It's why most of the board predicted a win, not just a win, but an easy win given they lost Ceglar and were without their best forward on the eve of the finals.

I mean the last two weeks of the season illustrated the form guide between both clubs.

I think the Hawks just rose to the occasion. Every now and then an average team plays out of its skin. Now they were average in a lot of ways, but they still had a lot of decorated proud champion players who know how to win and when to win. I'd say they gave everything and we threw everything back at them. THe outcome was that they were lame by the time they played the dogs. They looked depleted in body and spirit during that game.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

If Geelong are going anywhere this year they have to win this game

Nth Melb with their forced retirements - ( 1 champion 2 very good players and 1 stalwart ) are definitely at present a weaker outfit

For whats its worth i didnt think the Eagles played that well last week - Petrie broke his hand in the 1st qtr - so they were left with Vardy ( who did very little ) and at one stage they threw Darling into the ruck - yet they still won by 8 goals - and at Docklands - where Nth Melb have got a very good record

But their are still plenty of question marks about Geelong - hopefully they win - but i wouldnt put my house on it

 

[Mr Meow]

Even with their list changes I'd still consider North at Etihad a danger game. It was looking that way last year until injuries took hold and we ran away with it. I was there to witness Danger's game then and it was an absolute treat.

Remember the convincing performance against a weak team last week would be viewed as an anomaly based on 2016 form, where outside of Sydney we saved our best for the top teams. It would just be nice to have a similar ethos in relation to our pressure, defensive set up and ball movement this week. More time for GHS and Duncan at the stoppages. Hawk at CHF and Danger rotating up there. If we stick to the same formula and bring intent there's no reason we can't win comfortably this week.