Autopsy Round 5, 2024: GWS v St.Kilda

[beside the seaside]

For a side crying out for some midfield grunt and quality, that Garcia debut is very, very exciting.

Also liked Windys game in there. Think we're starting to build a good looking midfield for the future.

 

[Saint Watto]

And goal kicking….once again.

I would rather see collard than butler. I reckon that will happen next week

Rinse and repeat.

Must say we saw Owens at his best and worst…in one game!
FFS someone teach him how to kick a goal and Pou ( x2 now) not to run into the man on the mark!

Just watching Ben King on a hard lead, mark and kick truly.

Me:

Have a look at where they get their young blokes, where in the draft the older heads they play with were selected.
It's a totally different list profile. Impossible for any other club in the league to have.
How many rookie selections did they roll out today (a risky question as I have no idea haha)?

I go into the game fairly relaxed because I’m not really expecting a win.
And I finish the game bloody frustrated because we could have done - steal or not.

On another note. Ross’ pressers never fail to amuse me. However frustrated he feels inside he never shows it. TBH I was pretty amused at his positioning under the chery oval…looked like he had a halo.

But spinning the ball can’t be a good thing, would be interesting to see the percentages of a kick firstly spinning the ball & then holding it steady on going straight.

My two bobs worth on King is, I think he’s turned into a lazy player, notice when defenders have the ball he only half hearted gives chase.

Also not knowing him personally & from way up here in Qld. I only get to see him on the idiot box (except for this week, am going to the game) he comes across as FIGJAM, only track watchers & people that are close would be able to agree or disagree.

I can assure you Grav that big Maxy is anything but a FIGJAM.

He's always up for a chat......not a long one tho as he still comes across as quite shy.

I came up to Canberra for the game and bumped into him while going for a walk.

Was very friendly and smiles all round.

I gave him my request for the game.....we won't go there.

Big Maxy still comes across as a big puppy dog......lol.

I have to say that the difference between training and match day performance is at times....baffling.

I

 

[stavro#4]

I feel like this is hugely sensational.

No the club didn’t rule it out. But as of last night were very confident there was no ligament damage.

Infact the message I got at 10pm:

“A chance for next week or misses the next month is roughly the timescale they are working with until scanned”

That’s from someone who flew over and back.

 

[stavro#4]

I can assure you Grav that big Maxy is anything but a FIGJAM.

He's always up for a chat......not a long one tho as he still comes across as quite shy.

I came up to Canberra for the game and bumped into him while going for a walk.

Was very friendly and smiles all round.

I gave him my request for the game.....we won't go there.

Big Maxy still comes across as a big puppy dog......lol.

I have to say that the difference between training and match day performance is at times....baffling.

I

If I’m going to knock max and the club. It’s that they prioritised his agility for a slower build time physically.

His brother looks very strong in comparison. Especially across his shoulders arms and chest.

 

[topbillings]

I feel like this is hugely sensational.

No the club didn’t rule it out. But as of last night were very confident there was no ligament damage.

Infact the message I got at 10pm:

“A chance for next week or misses the next month is roughly the timescale they are working with until scanned”

That’s from someone who flew over and back.

Gabelich himself says in the clip "they are confident it's not an ACL, but they're not ruling it out until they get the scans" which sounds entirely reasonable and almost mirrors what Ross said in the presser (just with more sensationalist language). Definitely feels like clickbait in audio form.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Will the scan be done today?

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[beside the seaside]

Will the scan be done today?

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

said this arvo in the clip

 

[Cairnsman]

OK - I'll play the game.

So lets say we are having a "rebuild" (which we aren't). So just like every club we only get one 1st round pick which is likely to be Pick 10ish.

No 'rebuild" happening with that scenario.

So who are you trading out of the current list to get us multiple 1st round Picks to start doing an actual "rebuild"?

And that my dear internet friend is the starting question for the biggest dilemma in elite sport with such a large competition and relatively small talent pool. It's why middle of the ladder clubs are significantly disadvantaged in that regard, amongst all the challenges faced with talent aquasition, one of the biggest, but shhhh we can't talk about the elephant in the room, is the competition for talent with AFLs franchise clubs. Give yourself 3 uppercuts if you were one of the gullible fools to purchase a Tasmania membership. I call BS on the claim the solf over 100k memberships, the average football fan ain't that bright but can't see a die hard buying a membership to another club. Rant over.

Back on us.

As I say, I said it the moment Lyon returned, and while the fanboys went gah gah over the Messiah like his return was some type of guarantee we would finally win a second flag. Was asking at the time, what magic trick does Lyon have that no other coach has?, where is his magic wand that turns every recruit into an a GF type. Most saw that as an attack on Ross. Couldn't be further from my truth, I think he's a good enough coach, but I've always felt that coaching is only part of the jigsaw puzzle at out club, the other is patience, Lyon will possibly need as long as ten years to build a list capable of winning a flag.

The upshot if that is I have nevered wavered from my understanding that we are in rebuild mode and well short of the talent and experience needed to win flags, look at yesterday for example, just like in the final, it was boys against men, GWS were plying with us yesterday, so much so they nearly lost the game, but it was very obvious they felt and knew that have our measure, and by a considerable margin.

Have to keep going to national draft for a few more years yet is what I believe, and at least until Tasmania enter the comp so as to stockpile as much Talent as possible. We are still well short of the critical mass required.

 

[akaifu]

I spoke to Ross Lyon after the game yesterday. First thing he said was:

"****ing frustrating innit"

When he brought out the f-bomb I thought he was attacking me at first.

Turns out he's just really passionate and understands how us supporters feel after such a perplexing performance.

All the boys as they got on the bus looked extremely down as well so it seems they're licking their wounds.

Phillipou was munching on some chips.

BJ tucking into a box of who knows what, maybe Chinese or an HSP.

Boris was on the phone.

Zlugger gave me a wink and a thumbs up - what a man.

I'm backing the boys in to review extremely hard and come out on Thursday with a big statement on home deck. They are angry.

 

[Diehard Saint]

And that my dear internet friend is the starting question for the biggest dilemma in elite sport with such a large competition and relatively small talent pool. It's why middle of the ladder clubs are significantly disadvantaged in that regard, amongst all the challenges faced with talent aquasition, one of the biggest, but shhhh we can't talk about the elephant in the room, is the competition for talent with AFLs franchise clubs. Give yourself 3 uppercuts if you were one of the gullible fools to purchase a Tasmania membership. I call BS on the claim the solf over 100k memberships, the average football fan ain't that bright but can't see a die hard buying a membership to another club. Rant over.

Back on us.

As I say, I said it the moment Lyon returned, and while the fanboys went gah gah over the Messiah like his return was some type of guarantee we would finally win a second flag. Was asking at the time, what magic trick does Lyon have that no other coach has?, where is his magic wand that turns every recruit into an a GF type. Most saw that as an attack on Ross. Couldn't be further from my truth, I think he's a good enough coach, but I've always felt that coaching is only part of the jigsaw puzzle at out club, the other is patience, Lyon will possibly need as long as ten years to build a list capable of winning a flag.

The upshot if that is I have nevered wavered from my understanding that we are in rebuild mode and well short of the talent and experience needed to win flags, look at yesterday for example, just like in the final, it was boys against men, GWS were plying with us yesterday, so much so they nearly lost the game, but it was very obvious they felt and knew that have our measure, and by a considerable margin.

Have to keep going to national draft for a few more years yet is what I believe, and at least until Tasmania enter the comp so as to stockpile as much Talent as possible. We are still well short of the critical mass required.

I don’t believe anyone said Ross was a magician and would definitely win us a flag.
But we’ve seen him make moves in games that have turned things in our favour at times - because he’s a strategist with far more nous than Richo or Ratts ever had. And because he’s had to work with, granted, not the most talented and often one of the biggest injury lists there is.
Does it make him the wunder-coach? No.
But I’d still far, far rather have him in the box than all the others we’ve had since his first stint.
Pretty sure he knows exactly where the team stands right now, and what players we still need.

 

[SG34]

Good to hear akaifu,
I am trying to resist the mode one can slip into so easily …the venting mode.
The “almost-win” shows just how valuable Hill and Marshall and Steele and even Sincs are. But they are no secret. What will we do now? They must be tearing their hair out at Moorabbin in the bunker head quarters.
As a fan, we are so desperate for the young hopes to blossom and so underwhelmed when say Pou just isn’t a Daicos or an instant-Heaney. We dream of players off the field, Wood, Hayes, and the yet to be used Carlton import etc., I don’t know that these players are guaranteed to produce high level output to the level of those four yesterday.
As for big Max, yep, he can be a force, but we all know, just looking at the records, since 2020, we do no better in the win-loss column, with him in. I know it’s complex, but we can’t ignore that in our hearts. We wait and hope.

 

[stavro#4]

OK - I'll play the game.

So lets say we are having a "rebuild" (which we aren't). So just like every club we only get one 1st round pick which is likely to be Pick 10ish.

No 'rebuild" happening with that scenario.

So who are you trading out of the current list to get us multiple 1st round Picks to start doing an actual "rebuild"?

We are very much rebuilding.

Just not a ground zero one where you burn the place to the ground and stick a new frame up.

Call it a retooling - on the fly.

Which falls inline with the “new core”

 

[stavro#4]

I don’t believe anyone said Ross was a magician and would definitely win us a flag.
But we’ve seen him make moves in games that have turned things in our favour at times - because he’s a strategist with far more nous than Richo or Ratts ever had. And because he’s had to work with, granted, not the most talented and often one of the biggest injury lists there is.
Does it make him the wunder-coach? No.
But I’d still far, far rather have him in the box than all the others we’ve had since his first stint.
Pretty sure he knows exactly where the team stands right now, and what players we still need.

Our biggest asset is Ross.
He makes these players better and he gives us a gameplan that keeps us in games.

We don’t have the quality yet to regularly win the close ones. We need both growth and just more talent.

 

[topbillings]

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Last time we were up on top , there seemed to be a thing where we couldn't get good players.
Our stars, Riewoldt, Goddard, Dal Santo, and on and on, were absolutely sucking the TPP dry.

Looking at the top teams now, it seems common they will let the big players go rather than mess up the cap trying to keep them.
We also see teams packaging all their later picks to trade to teams with academy or f/s picks. ( a loophole that should be stopped imo). Sometimes we see teams trade their future 1st rounder to get a top quality pick in the current draft. Using that method you can potentially access a top quality pick every two years.

So we've seen teams that are still fairly competitive getting decent picks.
Melbourne traded 14, 27 and 35 to get Windsor. ( we ended up with their pick , and took Wilson ).
Bulldogs targeted Sanders, it cost them the pick before StKilda's Wilson pick, and this year's first rounder.
Adelaide gave up this years second to secure Daniel Curtin.

To me the trick is to read the draft, and not just go by a formula ( Chris Pelchan "yay we got three first round draft picks this year , our plan worked " Sure Chris, three useless picks in a stupid shallow draft . )
Look at the players and not the picks. Don't trade for picks that will give you crap players.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[stavro#4]

Last time we were up on top , there seemed to be a thing where we couldn't get good players.
Our stars, Riewoldt, Goddard, Dal Santo, and on and on, were absolutely sucking the TPP dry.

Looking at the top teams now, it seems common they will let the big players go rather than mess up the cap trying to keep them.
We also see teams packaging all their later picks to trade to teams with academy or f/s picks. ( a loophole that should be stopped imo). Sometimes we see teams trade their future 1st rounder to get a top quality pick in the current draft. Using that method you can potentially access a top quality pick every two years.

So we've seen teams that are still fairly competitive getting decent picks.
Melbourne traded 14, 27 and 35 to get Windsor. ( we ended up with their pick , and took Wilson ).
Bulldogs targeted Sanders, it cost them the pick before StKilda's Wilson pick, and this year's first rounder.
Adelaide gave up this years second to secure Daniel Curtin.

To me the trick is to read the draft, and not just go by a formula ( Chris Pelchan "yay we got three first round draft picks this year , our plan worked " Sure Chris, three useless picks in a stupid shallow draft . )
Look at the players and not the picks. Don't trade for picks that will give you crap players.

It’s another year of drafting and trying for a free agent - they will dangle cap space for a salary dump too.

It’s 2025 where they are planning to deal

 

[stavro#4]

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hawks were smart when they traded their future first to get Tom Mitchell. They probably knew that the following seasons draft would be short of mids. ( Coffield , Clark).
If we'd ignored what i thought was an offer too good to refuse, we might have drafted Ollie Florent or Jye Simpkin. ( and missed out on Ben Long

22

Ben Long

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

166.8

3star

D

12.8

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

129.0

2star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.2

5star

MG

223.0

4star

).
Alternately , if we'd traded our Paddy McCartin draft pick, we could have ended up with two good players, ( including Peter Wright who would have filled the need we had as well as a fit Paddy ).

 

[MickG88]

Did anyone else find it bizarre that the umpires allowed the Giants player to run to a mark and then allow them to just run away and yell out "outside 15"? It happened all day and was a shocking look. That rule is so horribly officiated and makes no sense what so ever.
Plus the amount of Giants players that wasn't following a Saints player run within 5m of a Saints player that just marked the ball.

I know that didn't lose us the game but it was irritating because we would of being pinged for the behavior, This mantra of EQUALITY is a joke and I'm really starting to hate AFL. The AFL clearly have favorites and it's plain disgusting.

 

[stfan]

Hawks were smart when they traded their future first to get Tom Mitchell.

Though not too smart as gaining Tom and OMeara as top ups cost them dear and accelerated a downwards spiral which they are yet to pull out of.

They probably knew that the following seasons draft would be short of mids. ( Coffield , Clark).
If we'd ignored what i thought was an offer too good to refuse, we might have drafted Ollie Florent or Jye Simpkin. ( and missed out on Ben Long ).

Though we also gained Josh Battle from the picks we gained for pick 10, and he looks sett for 200-300 games.

Unknown as yet if we gain an AFL level player from the pick we swapped Long for.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Did anyone else find it bizarre that the umpires allowed the Giants player to run to a mark and then allow them to just run away and yell out "outside 15"? It happened all day and was a shocking look. That rule is so horribly officiated and makes no sense what so ever.
Plus the amount of Giants players that wasn't following a Saints player run within 5m of a Saints player that just marked the ball.

I know that didn't lose us the game but it was irritating because we would of being pinged for the behavior, This mantra of EQUALITY is a joke and I'm really starting to hate AFL. The AFL clearly have favorites and it's plain disgusting.

I did notice that and its smart coaching by GWS why they are getting away with it. Hopefully someone highlights it with the umpires director and they make the required adjustments. It always happens with the introduced laws, intitially they umpire it strictly and then it relaxes and clubs find a way to exploit it. We had a pretty good run with the umps this year, but having watched the VFL games this season, there isnt a lot of depth out there in the umpiring pool either.

 

[SaintWWodonga]

Pou kicking into the man on the mark, not even a point, really cost us as it went down to Hogan for a goal. Hill was great as was Marshall & Steele. Need to take our chances in front of goal. Get Collard in, (drop Butler) at least Collard is a good shot at goal.

 

[malevu]

Never been a Hill fan but I've liked his year so far. Finally he's resembling the player we thought we were getting. So important with our current outs that he keeps it up. Think him and Henry would make a great duo.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Pou kicking into the man on the mark, not even a point, really cost us as it went down to Hogan for a goal. Hill was great as was Marshall & Steele. Need to take our chances in front of goal. Get Collard in, (drop Butler) at least Collard is a good shot at goal.

Hopefully he learnt from that and will never ever do it again.