Toast Round 6 = Collingwood 59-27 Hawthorn

[Carringbush2010]

We don't really try to outnumber out wide. We just try to keep our width more to stretch zones or have someone in space. Outnumbering in the phone box is often about undernumbering up forward. Thus we win inside 50s but score from less of them. There's nothing really wrong with our strategy, hence our high ladder finishes two years running. But it can be pretty dull. Plus we need to come up with something more effective than to bomb it to an outnumbered tall bloke who doesn't cope with body contact, when we are repeat entering or entering slowly.

True I'm talking simplistically, let's put it as structure up in optimal position - in any case it seems taxing. I dunno maybe my theory is wrong, just how it comes across

Whatever the case - right now - we aren't in contention if we continue this offensive form. IF it is turned around will we have to compromise other areas of our game?

 

[jathanas]

Who mentioned the '80's beside you?
Watch any early footage you can find of Daicos playing in the middle he was superb through traffic.

Agreed. It is too simplistic to discount the achievements of players of the past "because they had more space". They got hit more during the play, they had inferior training, diet, and rehab protocols.

We can all agree that Pendles just finds a way to create time and space for himself. That's what makes him damn good and we don't qualify it with an era. We can apply the same logic to Daicos, Millane, Moore, and even further in the past Greening. They're guns, it doesn't matter when they played.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Daicos needing and relying on more time and space than modern players is one of the more bizarre concepts.

Agreed - if anything he would be a better player in the modern game which is simply mind boggling.

 

[sr36]

True I'm talking simplistically, let's put it as structure up in optimal position - in any case it seems taxing. I dunno maybe my theory is wrong, just how it comes across

Whatever the case - right now - we aren't in contention if we continue this offensive form. IF it is turned around will we have to compromise other areas of our game?

I think we just need to get more numbers to the hot-spot. When we repeat enter, we go there every time, but the danger of that is it leaves more space for teams to rebound, which we're trying to avoid. We're very defensive. Personally I don't think it will get it done. But we're not without a chance.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think they just need to stop targeting Cox. He's got one party trick which is easily stopped if the defence target him. Target Mihocek. He'll provide a contest and wont just be pushed under the ball. If Cox's man zones off, Cox will get some opportunities to pull off his party trick. If he doesn't zone of, Mihocek will be more likely to provide a decent contest.

This is such a no brainer, the mind boggles as to why not. It's either we drop it on his head and hope for the best or we hit a lead up forward. Well spotted SR!

 

[left at home]

Daicos needing and relying on more time and space than modern players is one of the more bizarre concepts.

It’s kappa, just doesn’t think anyone from the past could play today’s game, very strange.

 

[Albert Parker]

Of course we're capable that is not in dispute, what is in dispute is IF we play to potential at the right time of year after being good enough to get ourselves in a contending position.

IF we don't improve closer to capability then it's unlikely we give ourselves the chance let alone play capable enough to win it.

Right now with our woeful forward form I don't see it, would be a serious turn around in form to get to flag worthy offence.

Giants managed 6 goals today. Richmond won with 4. Add them to your list of teams with offensive woes?
Jeremy Cameron's had 2 good seasons in his career and far from dominant this season. Everyone has said we should be targeting him.
Ben Brown looks terrible each week as a KPF.
Brodie Mihocek leads the AFL goal kicking.

Yep, we're not firing at present but we'll win enough games to put ourselves in contention it seems at this stage.

Our tall forwards are less damaging/consistent than Lynch and Riewoldt or Cameron and Finlayson/Himmelberg but our mid-sized forwards are the best in the league in aggregate I believe - DeGoey, Elliott, Stephenson, WHE.

All teams are likely to require a spread of goal kickers to get the job done.
Our forwards have shown that, in bursts, they are capable of kicking bags of goals too. We need to be patient with our delivery into the forward line and not blast the ball in high.
I think that our collective forwards are as likely as any to be able to able to kick a winning score come the end of 2020.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think we just need to get more numbers to the hot-spot. When we repeat enter, we go there every time, but the danger of that is it leaves more space for teams to rebound, which we're trying to avoid. We're very defensive. Personally I don't think it will get it done. But we're not without a chance.

That's what I've trying to put out there, we're very team defensive. Being defensive like we are (outnumber or structure defensively game long) seems to take too much fuel and we drop away after denying the opp anything at the start of games.

I'm not very good at explaining my mind am I.............................

Giants managed 6 goals today. Richmond won with 4. Add them to your list of teams with offensive woes?
Jeremy Cameron's had 2 good seasons in his career and far from dominant this season. Everyone has said we should be targeting him.
Ben Brown looks terrible each week as a KPF.
Brodie Mihocek leads the AFL goal kicking.

Yep, we're not firing at present but we'll win enough games to put ourselves in contention it seems at this stage.

Our tall forwards are less damaging/consistent than Lynch and Riewoldt or Cameron and Finlayson/Himmelberg but our mid-sized forwards are the best in the league in aggregate I believe - DeGoey, Elliott, Stephenson, WHE.

All teams are likely to require a spread of goal kickers to get the job done.
Our forwards have shown that, in bursts, they are capable of kicking bags of goals too. We need to be patient with our delivery into the forward line and not blast the ball in high.
I think that our collective forwards are as likely as any to be able to able to kick a winning score come the end of 2020.

Yeah fair call AP, just not as confident as some that we'll somehow be better offensively than teams like the tigs, wc, cats or giants will / could be.

 

[Robroy22]

Giants managed 6 goals today. Richmond won with 4. Add them to your list of teams with offensive woes?
Jeremy Cameron's had 2 good seasons in his career and far from dominant this season. Everyone has said we should be targeting him.
Ben Brown looks terrible each week as a KPF.
Brodie Mihocek leads the AFL goal kicking.

Yep, we're not firing at present but we'll win enough games to put ourselves in contention it seems at this stage.

Our tall forwards are less damaging/consistent than Lynch and Riewoldt or Cameron and Finlayson/Himmelberg but our mid-sized forwards are the best in the league in aggregate I believe - DeGoey, Elliott, Stephenson, WHE.

All teams are likely to require a spread of goal kickers to get the job done.
Our forwards have shown that, in bursts, they are capable of kicking bags of goals too. We need to be patient with our delivery into the forward line and not blast the ball in high.
I think that our collective forwards are as likely as any to be able to able to kick a winning score come the end of 2020.

Stop speaking sense.

 

[sr36]

Giants managed 6 goals today. Richmond won with 4. Add them to your list of teams with offensive woes?
Jeremy Cameron's had 2 good seasons in his career and far from dominant this season. Everyone has said we should be targeting him.
Ben Brown looks terrible each week as a KPF.
Brodie Mihocek leads the AFL goal kicking.

Yep, we're not firing at present but we'll win enough games to put ourselves in contention it seems at this stage.

Our tall forwards are less damaging/consistent than Lynch and Riewoldt or Cameron and Finlayson/Himmelberg but our mid-sized forwards are the best in the league in aggregate I believe - DeGoey, Elliott, Stephenson, WHE.

All teams are likely to require a spread of goal kickers to get the job done.
Our forwards have shown that, in bursts, they are capable of kicking bags of goals too. We need to be patient with our delivery into the forward line and not blast the ball in high.
I think that our collective forwards are as likely as any to be able to able to kick a winning score come the end of 2020.

Yep. The high ball to the hot spot just never ever works for us and rarely for any other team regardless of how good their KPFs are.

I don't think too many will agree, but with the amount of ground players cover, the fields have effectively become smaller. It's time for 16 a side.

 

[Kappa]

Yep. The high ball to the hot spot just never ever works for us and rarely for any other team regardless of how good their KPFs are.

I don't think too many will agree, but with the amount of ground players cover, the fields have effectively become smaller. It's time for 16 a side.

Or you just don't allow them to cover as much ground...

 

[sr36]

Or you just don't allow them to cover as much ground...

I'd much prefer less players on the field than more zoning rules, if that's what you mean.

 

[Kappa]

I'd much prefer less players on the field than more zoning rules, if that's what you mean.

Reduce interchange.. fatigued players don't run as far.

 

[sr36]

Reduce interchange.. fatigued players don't run as far.

I reckon there would be a fair bit of parking the bus to conserve energy.

As someone who grew up watching as much 16 a side VFA as VFL, I don't really get why 18 a side is so sacred. If we are concerned about the congestion and zoning, stop with the nothing silly tinkering and create more space by having less blokes on the ground. Its the most simple logical way. No silly rule changes necessary.

 

[Black_White]

I'm hearing that there is a bit of optimism about our strategy of moving from sticky tape to super glue. Fingers crossed. Even though he's made of glass, he's a better chance than Cox, Cameron or Kelly this year.

Super glue isn’t flexible enough.
This is my preferred solution, flexible, strong, can be used in water;

Trust the dinosaur.

 

[stemline]

Hey guys, congrats on grinding out a pretty convincing win again my mob.

At some point during the game, Brian Taylor gave the crowd figure. Did any of you guys happen to catch what it was?

Much appreciated if anyone can provide it.

Cheers

 

[jonmacTrag]

I reckon there would be a fair bit of parking the bus to conserve energy.

As someone who grew up watching as much 16 a side VFA as VFL, I don't really get why 18 a side is so sacred. If we are concerned about the congestion and zoning, stop with the nothing silly tinkering and create more space by having less blokes on the ground. Its the most simple logical way. No silly rule changes necessary.

And would do a lot to reduce the 'talent shortage' - it's no coincidence that football has become more boring and scrappy as the number of teams has increased.

 

[Kappa]

Agreed - if anything he would be a better player in the modern game which is simply mind boggling.

it's simply mind boggling that you genuinely believe this.

Nostalgia gone wild

 

[jonmacTrag]

it's simply mind boggling that you genuinely believe this.

Nostalgia gone wild

It's simply mind boggling that you could imagine I cared about any opinion in your closed and biased mind buttercup.

 

[Kappa]

It's simply mind boggling that you could imagine I cared about any opinion in your closed and biased mind buttercup.

Can you hear yourself talk? You are the most biased poster imaginable.

You think these players from the 80 are the greatest sportsmen in history in a suburban amateur competition with a low playerpool

 

[Jen2310]

Hey guys, congrats on grinding out a pretty convincing win again my mob.

At some point during the game, Brian Taylor gave the crowd figure. Did any of you guys happen to catch what it was?

Much appreciated if anyone can provide it.

Cheers

1,772 I just rewatched the last quarter to make sure.

 

[DaVe86]

Happy to get the win after a pretty tumultuous fortnight. But I didn't turn the TV off with a lot of satisfaction. I thought we played fairly ordinarily. Our overuse is a big problem. We had 3 talls up there, but still over handballed. I would have thought that after a few weeks of wet weather footy in a row, that we would have developed a better style in the wet. But we still seem incapable of playing wet (or slippery) weather football.

Again we got out of the block strongly, and then faded. Game should have been well and truly over by half time but we continue to be quite poor in front of goal, and also blow so many opportunities from poor ball use.

I got some solace from the performances of IQ and Atu (and also it was quite enjoyable listening to commentators fumbling his name). Our youth looks quite promising all of a sudden.

I thought Grundy was a bit down on his usual output, yet we were better around the stoppages.

I also liked that Buckley did something different with the forward line setup. Without De Goey, and with Elliott playing more midfield, there seemed to be more defined roles for WHE and Mihocek. And they benefitted with 6 goals between them. Stephenson had a more consistent game playing higher, but would still like to see him get more opportunity from the square. But was good we mixed it up.

They key is to not have 4 or 5 guys playing the same role. That might mean each week we mix up the roles a bit. This week, I'd like to see De Goey play CHF and Stephenson from the square. Keep Elliott playing a more pure midfield role.

Was also super impressed with Darcy Moore. He has stepped into Howe's role nicely, and Scharenberg is doing decent in the more defensive role. I thought Shaz was less impressive than he was the week before, but I'd keep persisting with him for a full month to see if he can make the spot his own. Otherwise, I'd like to see Murphy or Keane given a crack.

We'll need to improve significantly to beat the Cats. I am just hoping for some drier weather.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I got some solace from the performances of IQ and Atu (and also it was quite enjoyable listening to commentators fumbling his name).

Really? I found it infuriating. These commentators are supposed to be professionals, calling a game which is hell-bent on advocating for multiculturalism.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Really? I found it infuriating. These commentators are supposed to be professionals, calling a game which is hell-bent on advocating for multiculturalism.

TRS it's not just the game - political correctness is suffocating any dissenting voice.
Part of the current landscape.

 

[sr36]

Can you hear yourself talk? You are the most biased poster imaginable.

You think these players from the 80 are the greatest sportsmen in history in a suburban amateur competition with a low playerpool

There wasn't a low player pool. Lower leagues are struggling, with many leagues and clubs folding and merging now. They were thriving in the 80s. Kick to kick dominated school lunchtimes, it doesn't anymore.

I think that you can make a case that a lot of players would be less effective in the modern era because their skillset was more suited to that era. Dunstall, whose weapon was explosive leads into space, wouldn't have been as effective. Similarly, some current defenders would have really struggled in that era, because they had to defend more one on one's and the space in front of them to a far greater extent than they do today.
But Daicos's weapons included him thinking quicker and needing less time and space than anyone else. Congestion wasn't an issue. The modern era makes his skillset more valuable, so it's certainly not ridiculous to suggest that he would have been even better in this era.