Toast Round 6 = Collingwood 59-27 Hawthorn

[The Royal Sampler]

But we got Quaynor regardless. Trading pick 18 didnt cost us anything more than points. That mitigates the Beams disaster considerably.

Opportunity cost. It’s an Old El Paso girl situation in which we could have had both.

We could have addressed any position with established players using those picks, instead they yielded nothing.

 

[Robroy22]

I watched Daics from his first game as perhaps you did.
Daics was always one to beat his opponent mentally, he was always a step ahead with his read on the play. He had every trick in the book and then invented a score of others to rewrite it.
Bucks was the obsessed perfectionist who crafted his body and mechanical actions to heights unseen before. He also carried the team on his back for years and it never ever affected his performances. It didn't matter how much physical pressure or negative tactics were used against him, it didn't matter how much he was personally required to do to get the team over the line he was always up for it.
And all that pressure never ever affected his execution.
Daics was the magician who always was a couple of steps in the clear and so could execute his dazzling magic for us all.
Buckley had to fight his way through the mud and blood to execute but never disappointed.
Vastly different players.
Daicos the master magician.
Buckley the supreme on field leader by example.
I adored Daics as a young man as all of us older guys did.
But as a mature man Buckley gave me hope in dire times for the club.
Take your pick.

I thought we were discussing who was a better kick?

Daics is obviously the better player....I'd say he's also the better kick.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Opportunity cost. It’s an Old El Paso girl situation in which we could have had both.

We could have addressed any position with established players using those picks, instead they yielded nothing.

Water under the bridge regardless.

 

[Robroy22]

Interesting you mentioned sav there, I remember seeing him play ruck at Vic Park, gathered the ball on Center wing and deliver a low 60m pass hitting I think houlihan on the chest. Low trajectory so it go there quick, but well weighted enough so it wasn’t too hard to mark. One of the best passes I’ve seen. We never saw much of it because he played so deep, but sav was a pretty decent field kick.

Sav was a magnificent drop punt kick, both the Rocca's could launch far further than anyone else I've seen.

 

[Robroy22]

We've missed explosive pace off the halfback line badly ever since 2010.

Can't believe Quaynor wasn't playing earlier, especially with Noble struggling.

And you know he's real quick by the way he cruises past players thinking they'll tackle him. He's got a couple of extra gears.

 

[loki04]

Pick 18 that we would have used on Quaynor anyway.

Or possibly used in any other number of trades.

Don't know how many times you need that explained. You seem very set that 18 could only be used on Beams or Quaynor.

 

[Kappa]

And you know he's real quick by the way he cruises past players thinking they'll tackle him. He's got a couple of extra gears.

And a cannon for a leg

 

[sr36]

Yes he could, but for short passes, he needed a little less booming and a little more touch

Yeah there was a period there when we were crap. Bucks would absolutely drill 25 metre passes at his teammates, when there was no need for them to be drilled, and they wouldn't be good enough to mark it.

 

[Kappa]

I thought we were discussing who was a better kick?

Daics is obviously the better player....I'd say he's also the better kick.

Are you taking into account when Buckley played the amount of pressure the ball carrier was under was about 10 times higher? And there was far far less space to kick into?

 

[jonmacTrag]

I thought we were discussing who was a better kick?

Daics is obviously the better player....I'd say he's also the better kick.

We are discussing the better player but you were querying the daicos 'head space' reference so I explained.
And no Daics wasn't the better kick.

 

[60 Yards Out]

And Daicos? Or Colin Tully?

Interesting you mention Colin Tully. Used to drop kick it 70+ metres, regularly.

 

[60 Yards Out]

Just watched the highlights on the AFL site, I'd be filthy as a Collingwood supporter. It's like they were curated by a Hawthorn supporter or staff member, you'd think they won. What they do show is Clarkson's coaching to milk non existent high contact. Also pathetic.

Totally agree. Some people need to shed their reverence for Hawthorn -- the threepeat was years ago -- and see the game as it is.

 

[sr36]

Are you taking into account when Buckley played the amount of pressure the ball carrier was under was about 10 times higher? And there was far far less space to kick into?

Bucks actually needed more time to balance and wind up ane execute than Daicos. So if you're factoring in time and space it shifts the balance towards Daicos.

My view is that Bucks by a mile for long passes. Daicos by a mile for any other types of kick. Surprisingly neither of them were great at a 40 metre set shot.

 

[TradeDraft]

Its ancient history now and nothing to do with the thread topic or my comments about how I think the Hawrhorn list is on the slide.

But we got Quaynor regardless. Trading pick 18 didnt cost us anything more than points. That mitigates the Beams disaster considerably.

Cost us in the last Draft

 

[Carringbush2010]

Thought we were talking about goalkicking accuracy?

As well

 

[Carringbush2010]

The reduced time of each quarter not only provides less time in which to score, but it also makes it easier for teams to maintain defensive structures for longer.

In short, the game is less 'open' for a greater proportion of the game, as well as less time overall.

True, but that doesn't take away that we don't look convincing going forward

 

[Carringbush2010]

who are the teams we need to get better than to contend?

Geelong for a start, at the minute they look better, saints even though they only played 1 qtr, giants have improved since playing us, bris - they'd be favs if they played us - now, port the same, ess obviously.

 

[Carringbush2010]

How many of the other teams have scored 100 points this season? Not looking good for any team it would seem going by your analysis.

Most teams have scored more than us this year, teams we haven't played. Our scoring is not on at the minute and hasn't been for some time.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Most teams have scored more than us this year, teams we haven't played. Our scoring is not on at the minute and hasn't been for some time.

I believe we have the elements within the squad but the structure just isn't right.

 

[sr36]

Most teams have scored more than us this year, teams we haven't played. Our scoring is not on at the minute and hasn't been for some time.

We're obsessed with repeat entries, but don't have the personnel to score from them. Plus we structure and run to lock it in rather than score from them.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I believe we have the elements within the squad but the structure just isn't right.

Yes you're right, until we get that right we aint gonna flag unless we get lucky to get there and two are lucky enough to get an opponent that isn't up to our defensive standard. And being Collingwood that aint happenin either.

 

[stormskye]

Geelong for a start, at the minute they look better, saints even though they only played 1 qtr, giants have improved since playing us, bris - they'd be favs if they played us - now, port the same, ess obviously.

Go and look at who those teams have played and lost to. I disagree with you completely. bris never left qland, finally left and got flogged on neutral ground. Carlton beat geel, geel beat melb by 3pts? 3pts... We flogged saints, they just lost to Fremantle.. port have played horrible teams and got found out by bris... Ess beat us when we played a poor game yes, look at their other wins? All bottom teams.

Nobody is playing consistent football. And those teams are not at all better than us.

 

[jonmacTrag]

We're obsessed with repeat entries, but don't have the personnel to score from them. Plus structure and run to lock it in rather than score from them.

Conversion has been a running sore at this club since our last flag.
It's all very well to say we recruit too many ordinary kicks but that is just letting the coaching staff off the hook.
Not only have those poor set shot kicking players not improved but a number have regressed.
For a supposedly professional coaching panel that simply isn't good enough.
Very few truly committed players can't improve their set shot kicking to acceptable or nearly so - the forward line coaching is NOT of an acceptable standard

 

[sr36]

Conversion has been a running sore at this club since our last flag.
It's all very well to say we recruit too many ordinary kicks but that is just letting the coaching staff off the hook.
Not only have those poor set shot kicking players not improved but a number have regressed.
For a supposedly professional coaching panel that simply isn't good enough.
Very few truly committed players can't improve their set shot kicking to acceptable or nearly so - the forward line coaching is NOT acceptable of an acceptable standard

I don't see our set shots as being an issue anymore. I'd be surprised if we're not a bit above average statistically in this regard. JDG is a worry though.

 

[Carringbush2010]

We're obsessed with repeat entries, but don't have the personnel to score from them. Plus structure and run to lock it in rather than score from them.

To be fair, we structured very differently (stevo defence, Billy in the middle) and we goaled early with 'opportunity' rather than transition through wing /corridor to a lead up forward. Seems that's our trade mark since Cloke left - no notable KPF, so smash it in repeatedly and hope for a crumb and / or hit a lead up forward.

Locking it in our F50 is not structural, any player can roll up the sleeves here, it's in between the ears.

Most games for the last two years we win just about every metric including I50, so my theory (again) the plan is 'weight of numbers', so in part it seems we have a taxing but very difficult to defeat game plan. Was noticeable how dominant around the ball we were for 3 qtrs yet only managed 19 scores - a number of them rushed behinds.

Not good enough to flag with.