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Autopsy Round 8 = Richmond 113-86 Collingwood

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Maggie5 said:
Sorry, I am not one to take into account what players are paid. I don't believe player performance has any influence on how much they are paid.
Good luck to them.


Yes we lack experience but I don't think bigger bodies would have helped yesterday.
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How much players are paid does have a direct influence on how much other players can be paid and what calibre player we can trade for.
 
TheGreatGrundy said:
How much players are paid does have a direct influence on how much other players can be paid and what calibre player we can trade for.
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Yes, but that issue lies with the club not the player. My point was that because players have a pay increase or secure their future wanting to remain a one club player, doubt they will just cruise through their contract.

It is nonsense, don't think they are the standards Grundy and Moore have of themselves.
 
Maggie5 said:
Yes, but that issue lies with the club not the player. My point was that because players have a pay increase or secure their future wanting to remain a one club player, doubt they will just cruise through their contract.

It is nonsense, don't think they are the standards Grundy and Moore have of themselves.
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A high salary does create high expectations of performance.
 

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Maggie5 said:
Sorry, I am not one to take into account what players are paid. I don't believe player performance has any influence on how much they are paid.
Good luck to them.


Yes we lack experience but I don't think bigger bodies would have helped yesterday.
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I wasn't intimating that it does maggie - I am merely stating facts - we have paid out a huge slice of money for 2 players that are contracted for long periods. Neither are producing to that standard and because of those contracts - both the cost and the length - we are not in a position to recruit established players to cover the likely retirements of Roughy and Sidebottom at the end of this season.

Those are incontestable facts - whether the contracts have any bearing on their performances is irrelevant to the point I was making.
 
TheGreatGrundy said:
A high salary does create high expectations of performance.
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To some maybe but not to me. You need to take into account that it a team performance and very few games are won by one.
 
Collingwood were unable to put a halt to Richmond's resurgence and a dominant performance from Tom Lynch, which also earmarked the return of Dustin Martin in a contest where the Magpies lost by 27 points. The opening quarter was quite scrappy where both sides wasted some opportunities, yet still kicked a few goals by the end of the term. The second quarter was where the game went Richmond's way and ultimately determined the outcome of the contest when Tom Lynch booted 4 goals for the quarter to end up with 5 for the half, which included his opening goal in the opening term. Lynch ended up booting his 6th goal in the last term. The last two quarters was a bit of a stalemate where both teams broke even on the scoreboard, which prevented a blowout that the Tigers threatened to produce or any potential comeback that Collingwood may have posed on the match itself. Richmond made plans to ensure Collingwood's defenders kicked to contests where the Magpies did not have adequate height to match the Tigers in aerial contests. The Woods also made propensities to bomb the ball long up forward where Richmond's defenders were sitting back taking intercept marks or halving contests with greater numbers at ground level. Richmond also exploited the lack of key defenders that Collingwood had available which saw Darcy Moore's zoning game come unstuck as he was not able to neutralise his direct opponent in Tom Lynch who proved too much for him when the game was on the line. The Magpies need to go back to the drawing board and not fall into the trap of playing into the opposition's hands and terms.

Collingwood won a frugal number of statistical categories from sources such as handballs by +16 (170 - 154), intercept possessions by +3 (78 - 75), +9 for tackles (48 - 39), and Tackles Inside 50 were won by +1 (5 - 4). Richmond gained control from disposals by +24 (388 - 364), kicks were won by +40 (234 - 194), contested possessions had a margin of +13 (138 - 125), uncontested possessions were up by +7 (236 - 229), while hit-outs had an advantage of +33 (49 - 16), +6 for clearances, with stoppage clearances won by +6 (22 - 16). Marks went in favour of the Tigers by +20 (94 - 74), with uncontested marks won by +20 (85 - 65), while Marks Inside 50 had a differential of +7 (19 - 12), and Inside 50s were won narrowly by +3 (61 - 58). Centre clearances (14 each) and contested marks (9 apiece) were the only categories in dispute.

Patrick Lipinski (30 disposals @ 73%, 385 metres gained, 9 contested possessions, 21 uncontested possessions, 5 intercept possessions, 13 kicks, 17 handballs, 4 marks, 1 goal assist, 9 score involvements, 2 clearances, 2 centre clearances, 2 Inside 50s & 5 Rebound 50s) contributed solidly to the team's cause by linking up possessions on transition and won his own ball from stoppages. Lipinski had 20 disposals in the second half to take momentum into next weekend's game against his former club.

Jack Crisp (30 disposals @ 73%, 606 metres gained, 9 contested possessions, 21 uncontested possessions, 4 intercept possessions, 12 kicks, 18 handballs, 4 marks, 6 tackles, 10 score involvements, 9 Inside 50s & 1 goal) had a prolific game through the midfield by surging the ball forward at every opportunity and gave his forwards opportunities to score goals.

Taylor Adams (29 disposals @ 66%, 487 metres gained, 12 contested possessions, 17 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 15 kicks, 14 handballs, 2 tackles, 1 goal assist, 7 score involvements, 5 clearances, 3 centre clearances, 2 stoppage clearances, 7 Inside 50s & 1 goal) worked tirelessly to win contested ball, win clearances and got involved in scoring chains to compliment Jack Crisp in the centre.

Jordan De Goey (22 disposals @ 77%, 352 metres gained, 9 contested possessions, 13 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 8 kicks, 14 handballs, 3 marks, 1 goal assist, 8 score involvements, 6 clearances, 2 centre clearances, 4 stoppage clearances, 4 Inside 50s & 2 Rebound 50s) attempted to maximise his impact from fewer possessions, and did relatively well. De Goey looked to move the ball forward as often as possible after he won clearances and stayed busy in contributing to the team's ball movement to the forwards.

Darcy Cameron (21 disposals @ 71%, 263 metres gained, 8 contested possessions, 13 uncontested possessions, 5 intercept possessions, 14 hit-outs, 11 kicks, 10 handballs, 6 marks, 3 contested marks, 6 tackles, 5 score involvements, 2 clearances, 2 stoppage clearances & 5 Inside 50s) battled manfully in the ruck to break even against Toby Nankervis & Ivan Soldo as much as he could and competed strongly. Cameron was also quite useful in laying tackles to keep the ball locked in, and moved well around the ground to take some marks and produce territory.

Nick Daicos (25 disposals @ 72%, 530 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 21 uncontested possessions, 5 intercept possessions, 16 kicks, 9 handballs, 6 marks, 1 goal assist, 10 score involvements, 5 Inside 50s & 3 Rebound 50s) accumulated his possessions nicely, but found it challenging to maintain possession as he struggled to find a free teammate in space coming out of defence as Richmond closed down his options.

Scott Pendlebury (24 disposals @ 88%, 389 metres gained, 8 contested possessions, 16 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 8 kicks, 16 handballs, 3 tackles, 6 score involvements, 4 clearances, 2 centre clearances, 2 stoppage clearances & 4 Rebound 50s) took it upon himself to run the ball out of defence by hand at speed to break up Richmond's defence and had some success, while Pendlebury also hit up targets by foot within close range to maintain possession.

Isaac Quaynor (17 disposals @ 88%, 379 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 10 uncontested possessions, 9 intercept possessions, 8 kicks, 9 handballs, 2 marks, 2 tackles, 3 score involvements, 2 Inside 50s & 5 Rebound 50s) looked to provide dash out of defence and accumulate on the run. The Tigers were able to minimise his influence and caused Quaynor to cough the ball up at various stages. Quaynor sustained an injury late in the game, so we will wait and see throughout the week if he recovers in time for the clash with the Bulldogs.

Jeremy Howe (17 disposals @ 88%, 333 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 13 uncontested possessions, 7 intercept possessions, 9 kicks, 8 handballs, 6 marks, 4 score involvements & 6 Rebound 50s) played solidly without impacting the result directly. Howe took some marks and provided some quality rebound to maintain possession when he had time and space to execute his possessions successfully.

John Noble (16 disposals @ 75%, 331 metres gained, 3 contested possessions, 13 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 9 kicks, 7 handballs, 3 marks, 5 tackles, 4 score involvements, 2 Inside 50s & 3 Rebound 50s) gave plenty of dash off the last line of defence and tackled with vigour. Noble's ball use was par for the course, as he experienced challenges in ensuring Collingwood kept possession out of defence.

Brayden Maynard (15 disposals @ 67%, 391 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 11 uncontested possessions, 4 intercept possessions, 11 kicks, 4 handballs, 3 marks, 1 goal assist, 2 score involvements, 4 Inside 40s & 2 Rebound 50s) looked to kick long at every opportunity to give the team more time to defend. Unfortunately, Richmond had plans for Maynard's kicking game which played into their hands.

Darcy Moore (13 disposals @ 77%, 284 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 7 uncontested possessions, 9 intercept possessions, 10 kicks, 3 handballs, 5 marks, 3 contested marks, 3 tackles, 2 score involvements & 8 Rebound 50s) had a very tough and dirty day where he was out-pointed by Tom Lynch in the first half, before limiting the damage in the second half to take marks and take territory with his kicks.

Will Hoskin-Elliott (14 disposals @ 57%, 270 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 7 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 8 kicks, 6 handballs, 5 marks, 3 score involvements, 3 Inside 50s & 2 goals) accumulated possessions without much damage. Ended the game by taking the mark of the day and chimed in with a couple of majors.

Oliver Henry (10 disposals @ 50%, 275 metres gained, 2 contested possessions, 8 uncontested possessions, 8 kicks, 2 handballs, 4 marks, 3 Marks Inside 50, 1 goal assist, 8 score involvements, 2 Inside 50s & 2 goals) made a competitive return to AFL level, where he was highly active in score involvements, took some marks up forward and kicked a couple of goals.

Beau McCreery (9 disposals @ 56%, 135 metres gained, 3 contested possessions, 6 uncontested possessions, 6 kicks, 3 handballs, 2 marks, 2 Marks Inside 50, 2 tackles, 1 goal assist, 8 score involvements & 1 goal) did not a very good day in front of the sticks. McCreery was lively, but extremely wasteful.

Brody Mihocek (8 disposals @ 62%, 186 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 4 uncontested possessions, 6 kicks, 2 handballs, 4 marks, 2 Marks Inside 50, 3 tackles, 2 Tackles Inside 50, 7 score involvements & 2 goals) gave his team a marking target when nobody else was presenting at the ball carrier. Mihocek was also able to make the most of his limited opportunities in a solid performance under the circumstances.

Jack Ginnivan (5 disposals @ 80%, 165 metres gained, 3 contested possessions, 2 uncontested possessions, 5 kicks, 2 marks, 4 score involvements & 3 goals) snapped his way through to another haul of goals on a tough day where quality supply was limited. Ginnivan has the knack of drawing head-high free kicks like Joel Selwood & Luke Shuey before him.

Collingwood's next game will be against the Western Bulldogs on May 13 at Marvel Stadium. The Magpies have a huge opportunity to capitalise and exploit the undersized defence that the Bulldogs will have on the ground once Friday night comes around. Collingwood will need to correct its ball use up forward for the Pies to be able to kick a winning score. No long bombs, plenty of short kicks and handball receives and change the angles to keep the Bulldogs guessing on where the next possession is going. The only times to kick long inside 50 is when the forwards are behind their opponents close to goal to be able to take marks from those kicks from long range. Collingwood's defenders will also need to ensure that they are not forced to kick to contests as the height profile is not sufficient. Handball receives from defence will be a requirement as it will draw opponents out of defence and open up gaps for Collingwood's forwards to get dangerous once they are charging from defence into attack on transition. Make the final game of the season at Marvel Stadium a win and regenerate momentum in the weeks that follow.
 
Maggie5 said:
To some maybe but not to me. You need to take into account that it a team performance and very few games are won by one.
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But some people are expected to contribute more to a win than others. We don't expect Tyler Brown to contribute to the same degree as Adams, and he doesn't. To Brown's credit, he doesn't cause us to in any way question the belief that some are more capable than others of contributing to a win. Usually, those who contribute more are paid more, and high salaries in turn create high expectations.
 
anshell said:
If you look at the stats there wasn’t that much in the game,but the big difference was that they had key marking forwards and defenders as well,wheras we were thrashed in that area.I think that’s the fourth or fifth time a power forward has had an absolute day out against us this year,and we’re only up to round 8 of the season so far.Moore has had a really poor season so far,and gets caught out of position so many times,like the rest of the defence.

It’s pretty obvious what we need to go back up the ladder,a key forward and a key defender as well.But we have a poor record recruiting those sort of players,and Hine doesn’t seem to be interested in drafting them either.Hopefully Macrae and Wright will be more aware of the need to recruit these sort of players,and actually do something about it.

And Grundy has been a huge loss for us,no matter what his detractors might say.I think we lost the hit outs 49 to 16,or something like that.If Grundy had played he would have halved the contest,or maybe won the hit outs overall.I’m not saying we would have won if he had played ,but he would have made a difference to the game.
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Shouldn’t matter who is in F50 but players need to adapt their entry to suit. Today it was more about turning the footy over transitioning from defence than F50 entry but to then continually bomb it long inside 50 just defies logic when you don’t have the marking options to benefit.

We’ll continue to miss Grundy. Playing Cox, who I think is a better 1st ruck option than Cameron, might alleviate the hit outs and clearance discrepancies. Can just imagine the melts though.
 
stormskye said:
watching a KPF absolutely towel us up is rubbing salt into a hugely open wound… hope you were watching Hine.
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That particular KPF is actually on Walsh who (apparently) went late and went half arsed in his pursuit of him.

I’m not sure why people actually struggle to understand that Hine essentially does what he’s told.
 
TheVillageIdiot7 said:
I posted this earlier in the week....

"No doubt WHE will shirk a few contests tomorrow and drop 1-2 marks as well as kill our momentum with weak efforts and poor decisions.... But he'll get his 15 disposals...."

I'm glad it took all of 1m 52 seconds game time for this to come true re dropped marks!
he got his 15.....we should keep him in as at least he is consistent!!!!

:)
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So your saying WHE was the only player who dropped a mark yesterday?
 
Mollythedolly said:
That particular KPF is actually on Walsh who (apparently) went late and went half arsed in his pursuit of him.

I’m not sure why people actually struggle to understand that Hine essentially does what he’s told.
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Given our salary cap problems in the following year, it is hard to see how we could have gotten Lynch, or kept him if we did. You are correct about Hine. None of the recruiting is a one person decision.
 

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Apex36 said:
Nobody seems to take in to account he had Covid a couple of weeks ago. It’s taken nearly a month for Adams to get back to his best after he had it, but apparently that’s irrelevant to the haters.
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Did he actually have it?
 
Gaspard said:
Given our salary cap problems in the following year, it is hard to see how we could have gotten Lynch, or kept him if we did. You are correct about Hine. None of the recruiting is a one person decision.
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There were lots of players remained unsigned till after we missed Lynch and you’d assume for that very reason. From memory, we hadn’t even signed Beams prior to then.
 
jonbe54 said:
I wasn't intimating that it does maggie - I am merely stating facts - we have paid out a huge slice of money for 2 players that are contracted for long periods. Neither are producing to that standard and because of those contracts - both the cost and the length - we are not in a position to recruit established players to cover the likely retirements of Roughy and Sidebottom at the end of this season.

Those are incontestable facts - whether the contracts have any bearing on their performances is irrelevant to the point I was making.
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How is your completely uninformed (unless you somehow have a club source on our salary cap) opinion which I’ve bolded, an incontestable fact?

Your opinions are not facts jonbe!
 
#26 said:
I wonder how many times Moore got burnt because of our turnovers?
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Six of 1, half dozen the other. There were occasions where he just decided to allow Lynch too much space. Can’t put all of them onto turnovers. Howe guilty of the same.
 
Mollythedolly said:
Six of 1, half dozen the other. There were occasions where he just decided to allow Lynch too much space. Can’t put all of them onto turnovers. Howe guilty of the same.
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But no mentions Howe and our other Defenders
 

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jonbe54 said:
I wasn't intimating that it does maggie - I am merely stating facts - we have paid out a huge slice of money for 2 players that are contracted for long periods. Neither are producing to that standard and because of those contracts - both the cost and the length - we are not in a position to recruit established players to cover the likely retirements of Roughy and Sidebottom at the end of this season.

Those are incontestable facts - whether the contracts have any bearing on their performances is irrelevant to the point I was making.
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No - they are only incontestable facts by assuming that both Moore and Grundy are incapable of returning to form.
So your premise if flawed.
 
Mollythedolly said:
Six of 1, half dozen the other. There were occasions where he just decided to allow Lynch too much space. Can’t put all of them onto turnovers. Howe guilty of the same.
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On the AFL website Kane Cornes described Moore as "daydreaming" & showed some behind goal footage of Moore running to the pocket to a contest (where there was another Collingwood player) and leaving Lynch by himself in the goal square. Of course, Lynch goaled.
With our shortage of backmen, he needs to focus on one job, instead of trying to do everything.
 
JuniorB said:
On the AFL website Kane Cornes described Moore as "daydreaming" & showed some behind goal footage of Moore running to the pocket to a contest (where there was another Collingwood player) and leaving Lynch by himself in the goal square. Of course, Lynch goaled.
With our shortage of backmen, he needs to focus on one job, instead of trying to do everything.
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Yeah that was a shocker. Couldn’t believe it when he ran to that contest! Moore definitely had a poor game, but there were a few goals that were more a product of terrible ball use rebounding from defence.

He has plenty of runs on the board, surely we, as a supporter base, aren’t so fickle to be questioning his worth based on yesterday? I mean, I know we’re not known for our intelligence… but geez. (Not directed at you, JuniorB).
 
JuniorB said:
On the AFL website Kane Cornes described Moore as "daydreaming" & showed some behind goal footage of Moore running to the pocket to a contest (where there was another Collingwood player) and leaving Lynch by himself in the goal square. Of course, Lynch goaled.
With our shortage of backmen, he needs to focus on one job, instead of trying to do everything.
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The vision of Moore was damning but I’m sure he will be stung by the criticism, and respond, given his pride.
 
RobsJourney said:
Didn’t duck once cause he ducked twice.

You’re deluded if you can’t see that.

Go back and watch it. Knows how to play for a free.
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Two poor tackles. If you don't know to go low on Ginnivan you're a fool.
 
hellfire said:
Yeah that was a shocker. Couldn’t believe it when he ran to that contest! Moore definitely had a poor game, but there were a few goals that were more a product of terrible ball use rebounding from defence.

He has plenty of runs on the board, surely we, as a supporter base, aren’t so fickle to be questioning his worth based on yesterday? I mean, I know we’re not known for our intelligence… but geez. (Not directed at you, JuniorB).
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One on one is not Darcy's strength -that footage was damning, but he generates plenty of drive with his athleticism, intercepting & rebounding.
We just need a true full back to blanket the likes of Lynch & adjustments to the game plan.
As you say, what happens further up field needs looking at, too.
 

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Autopsy Round 8 = Richmond 113-86 Collingwood

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