Autopsy Round 9, 2024: Hawthorn v St.Kilda

[Saintos The ITK]

heck I can see north hawks and eagles going past us next year. We should still hold out tigers for the spoon.
Hope we don’t heck upon our visit to the cellar again.

 

[The Cobra]

So I hope the Club is in the acceptance stage of grief now.


We got absolutely out played by Hawthorn and I'm thankful we lost. A win would have papered over the cracks and proved nothing.


PRO'S

• Battle is a gun. What a swing man, give him anything he wants to stay. He presents better than King. He defends better than Howard. He is a rare breed, make him rich.
• King much better effort than last week. Still a long way to go but I saw some aggression. More of that Max, time to care.
• Wilkie back in business, was a wall.

CON'S

• Our midfield is terrible (we know).
• Marshall props up our clearances but does so with predictable dump kicks forward. For some wild reason, our forwards don't play in front and can't predict these kicks. Marshall must have had 6-10 direct turnovers but you can't blame him being under pressure. Our forward line is a rabble, poorly coached.
• Membrey ain't pushing the needle anymore. Time to go.
• Game style was pathetic. Beta cucks moving the ball slowly down the line against a well set up unit. Turnover city.
• Conversely, we don't set up behind the ball well. This was a 2023 hallmark which has disappeared. They had very simple, uncontested simple marks inside 50.
• I changed my tip late to St Kilda. I got sucked in with the hope trap. Never hope with St Kilda.
• Garcia can only tackle right now.

Play the kids.
Battle forward, Membrey out.

Battle - a must to retain - great kick, brave, versatile, still a bit more upside & popular team man - must retain even if we have to pay a bit over the the mark!

 

[NoisyMinor]

… ffs. Bonner playing in a team that’s neither winning nor rebuilding is exactly the problem. Prick could have 80 if we’re kicking 7 goals, losing and he’s keeping a kid out of the team it’s an issue. I don’t know how people seem to be seeing my complaint as having anything to do with whether he’s good or not.

Usual types.

Might as well be bots trained to pick up on only key words.

Just send them into a conversational tailspin and laugh at it.

 

[The Cobra]

30 possessions, 700 metres gained, pretty much the only bloke in the team who can actually hit a forward on the lead - Bonner is not the problem.

A totally non existent clearance strategy (unless the plan is actually just hack it foward out of a contest and f***ing hope it goes near a Saints player) is the real problem.

Agree - but why do we have that clearance strategy- because we lack speed and have no line breaking mids - so Marshall is instructed to belt it forward by foot to be predictable up field.

Recruit Rozee, Butters or JHF and watch the clearance strategy change overnight!

 

[malevu]

Fixing our dysfunctional forward line should be the paramount issue for the coaches if they're capable of doing it.

We don't have the right mix of players in there, we can't convert, we don't have a reliable and effective system and the opposition can too easily defend against our current method.

We usually generate enough entries but yet struggle to kick 10 goals. Max King

12

Max King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

as the main focus just isn't working. We need to go to a system based around multi mid sized goal kicking mids. Trouble is of course we don't really have them. Makes for what looks like a long season ahead.

Use Collingwood as an example. They've been a dominant side for 3 seasons on the back of a Mihocek/Elliott forward line. Yet look how dangerous they look when they transition the ball quickly to an open forward line. Guys like deGoey, Crisp, Sidebottom, McCreery and Hill all hitting the scoreboard.

It's not a knock on King. But the times arrived for us to build a side where he's still a dangerous player but not the one and only focus of our forward system.

Can't see it being fixed this season with our current list.

 

[The Cobra]

Fixing our dysfunctional forward line should be the paramount issue for the coaches if they're capable of doing it.

We don't have the right mix of players in there, we can't convert, we don't have a reliable and effective system and the opposition can too easily defend against our current method.

We usually generate enough entries but yet struggle to kick 10 goals. Max King as the main focus just isn't working. We need to go to a system based around multi mid sized goal kicking mids. Trouble is of course we don't really have them. Makes for what looks like a long season ahead.

Use Collingwood as an example. They've been a dominant side for 3 seasons on the back of a Mihocek/Elliott forward line. Yet look how dangerous they look when they transition the ball quickly to an open forward line. Guys like deGoey, Crisp, Sidebottom, McCreery and Hill all hitting the scoreboard.

It's not a knock on King. But the times arrived for us to build a side where he's still a dangerous player but not the one and only focus of our forward system.

Can't see it being fixed this season with our current list.

Correct but a fit & firing Butler & Higgo would make for a world of difference

 

[The Boar]

Battle - a must to retain - great kick, brave, versatile, still a bit more upside & popular team man - must retain even if we have to pay a bit over the the mark!

What's the point of having a war chest and letting young guns go? This guy is a rare jet that we've developed, literally ask his Manager what he wants and give him it.

Our bargaining power is low and we need the good ones we already have. It's a no brainer.

Only way you let him go is if he is receiving an extreme FA offer that gets us a Top 5 pick. Even then not an easy call.

 

[phantom13]

We're not getting flogged.

We’re getting beaten by Hawthorn it’s the same thing.

 

[ScrappyDo]

So I hope the Club is in the acceptance stage of grief now.


We got absolutely out played by Hawthorn and I'm thankful we lost. A win would have papered over the cracks and proved nothing.


PRO'S

• Battle is a gun. What a swing man, give him anything he wants to stay. He presents better than King. He defends better than Howard. He is a rare breed, make him rich.
• King much better effort than last week. Still a long way to go but I saw some aggression. More of that Max, time to care.
• Wilkie back in business, was a wall.

CON'S

• Our midfield is terrible (we know).
• Marshall props up our clearances but does so with predictable dump kicks forward. For some wild reason, our forwards don't play in front and can't predict these kicks. Marshall must have had 6-10 direct turnovers but you can't blame him being under pressure. Our forward line is a rabble, poorly coached.
• Membrey ain't pushing the needle anymore. Time to go.
• Game style was pathetic. Beta cucks moving the ball slowly down the line against a well set up unit. Turnover city.
• Conversely, we don't set up behind the ball well. This was a 2023 hallmark which has disappeared. They had very simple, uncontested simple marks inside 50.
• I changed my tip late to St Kilda. I got sucked in with the hope trap. Never hope with St Kilda.
• Garcia can only tackle right now.

Play the kids.
Battle forward, Membrey out.

Not sure Batts would like moving forward again permanently but he's exactly what we need.
Membrey out, Batts forward, Cordy in.
Bonner out even though he was ok, Ari in.
Hastie out, Collard in.
Ross out, Dow in, Hugo forward.

Hayes, King, Hugo
Collard, Batts, Henry
Hill, Marshall, Wood
Windy, Steele, Dow
NWM, Cordy, Sincs
Wilkie, Doogs, Jweb

Ari, Wilson, Stocker, Owens
Sub: Pato/Ross/Byrnes

Still not real flash but might offer some more offensive punch.

 

[pebblesofsand]

… ffs. Bonner playing in a team that’s neither winning nor rebuilding is exactly the problem. Prick could have 80 if we’re kicking 7 goals, losing and he’s keeping a kid out of the team it’s an issue. I don’t know how people seem to be seeing my complaint as having anything to do with whether he’s good or not.

Which kid are you gonna pick ahead of Bonner?

Hastie - nope he's already playing.

McLennan - getting 15 possessions a game in the VFL - nope!!!

Arie - he's 194 cm tall defender - so are you dropping one of Wilkie or Battle as well?

Liam O'Connell - well he's only been playing the game for 3 months so I doubt it.

 

[Sully111]

Mitch was given significant time in the middle today and did jack s**t.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

Disagree

He didn't get the ball much while he was in there, but he went hard and tackled them causing them to turn the ball over multiple times.

You can't train the guy with the forwards and then throw him in the midfield as a bandaid from time to time and expect him to set the world on fire.

Make it his position. Leave him there... train him there... then judge him.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Mate, we’re getting flogged anyway. Having a kid rolling around with no opponent off half back and kicking 5 goals instead of 7 is going to make zero difference to the result.

But we're not getting flogged anyway.

 

[spike101]

Not sure Batts would like moving forward again permanently but he's exactly what we need.
Membrey out, Batts forward, Cordy in.
Bonner out even though he was ok, Ari in.
Hastie out, Collard in.
Ross out, Dow in, Hugo forward.

Hayes, King, Hugo
Collard, Batts, Henry
Hill, Marshall, Wood
Windy, Steele, Dow
NWM, Cordy, Sincs
Wilkie, Doogs, Jweb

Ari, Wilson, Stocker, Owens
Sub: Pato/Ross/Byrnes

Still not real flash but might offer some more offensive punch.

Get rid of Lyon, problem partly solved. St Kilda won’t win a flag in the next 10 years with him. Is it only him who is a “neutered dog”?

 

[puntking]

Get rid of Lyon, problem partly solved. St Kilda won’t win a flag in the next 10 years with him. Is it only him who is a “neutered dog”?

Sir Alex Ferguson could coach this side and we still be s**t

 

[SG34]

We were beaten by a team that kicked 8 goals.

(And last quarter Max marked that)

 

[ScrappyDo]

Get rid of Lyon, problem partly solved. St Kilda won’t win a flag in the next 10 years with him. Is it only him who is a “neutered dog”?

Yeah nar. I've spent too long watching Ritcho and Ratten stink it up. Lyon wants success and he's not messing around, so I'll take it for now.

 

[littlecreatures]

Mitch was given significant time in the middle today and did jack s**t.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

Mitchito had three CBAs. From those that were given CBAs, only 2 other (Hawthorn) players had less. Not sure if that’s quite significant time in the middle. That said, there was more prevailing issues today.

 

[The Cobra]

Yeah nar. I've spent too long watching Ritcho and Ratten stink it up. Lyon wants success and he's not messing around, so I'll take it for now.

I get the frustration & disappointment- but anyone who thinks RTB is an inferior coach to Richo & Ratts - DM me - I’ve got a bridge to sell you!

I’ll also send you Scottie Watters CV - looks good!

 

[phantom13]

Which kid are you gonna pick ahead of Bonner?

Hastie - nope he's already playing.

McLennan - getting 15 possessions a game in the VFL - nope!!!

Arie - he's 194 cm tall defender - so are you dropping one of Wilkie or Battle as well?

Liam O'Connell - well he's only been playing the game for 3 months so I doubt it.

I mean literally any of them. We’re losing anyway so what ******* difference does it make.

Battle ended up forward too and as is so often pointed out Battle, Wilkie and Arie all play hybrid defender roles anyway

 

[SG34]

Do you seriously think that Lyon is holding us back from a flag?
I think he’s done a good job of getting an extremely average team, that represents a below-average club (I mean that from St Kilda’s relative status in AFL house) and made them competitive. We were super lucky last year. Fixture and tribunal conspires against us.

I’ve said this before- the better RTB is at getting us up around the mark, the bigger the rod he is making for his own back. For we will be and are exposed for our shortcomings.

 

[beside the seaside]

We’re getting beaten by Hawthorn it’s the same thing.

Hawthorn beat the premiers last year.

I'm not excusing today or saying it's acceptable, but the industry as a whole these days just overreact so much to different results, and we as a fanbase do a bloody good job of it too.

It sucks to lose and to play so badly but you're basically suggesting we just tank. It's not really an option, no one wants to go watch their side lose by 100 points each week and anyway it hasn't even really been proven that it works.

We are playing a lot of kids at the moment. Will they end up stars? Who knows, many of them such as Hastie today are still miles off it but are hopefully gaining from the experience and will one day be decent AFL players or, fingers crossed, stars.

But when people say "North will overtake us in two years" like it's some guarantee, it's really just over-emotive nonsense.

The best option we have is to get it together and beat Freo next week, hopefully get some players back into form and become a good team to watch again which I think we were late last year.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Has there ever been a line coach let go mid season???

 

[phantom13]

Hawthorn beat the premiers last year.

I'm not excusing today or saying it's acceptable, but the industry as a whole these days just overreact so much to different results, and we as a fanbase do a bloody good job of it too.

It sucks to lose and to play so badly but you're basically suggesting we just tank. It's not really an option, no one wants to go watch their side lose by 100 points each week and anyway it hasn't even really been proven that it works.

We are playing a lot of kids at the moment. Will they end up stars? Who knows, many of them such as Hastie today are still miles off it but are hopefully gaining from the experience and will one day be decent AFL players or, fingers crossed, stars.

But when people say "North will overtake us in two years" like it's some guarantee, it's really just over-emotive nonsense.

The best option we have is to get it together and beat Freo next week, hopefully get some players back into form and become a good team to watch again which I think we were late last year.

So now we’re back to trying to win and make finals this year…

Surely you can see the issue here.

One minute it’s a full 5 year rebuild, then it’s a remodel then it’s get the mojo back and we’re good.

It’s exactly my point, we’re rudderless. I hope Ross has a plan but I can’t see it and most people here are so desperate for a savior they’ll think him pissing in their face is him predicting the weather.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I mean literally any of them. We’re losing anyway so what ******* difference does it make.

Battle ended up forward too and as is so often pointed out Battle, Wilkie and Arie all play hybrid defender roles anyway

OK - lets go all out.

Drop Marshall so we can play Max Heath.

Drop Howard to play Keeler

Drop Membrey to play Allison

I'd prefer we work on an identifiable game plan - will make it a lot easier for the kids when they get a game.

 

[Miha]

Im gong to say this again but please form the lock of heck change up the midfield you campaigner. Ross calls it a spluttering midfield for 12 months now! Windy, Dow, Steele, Owens and Hunter.

Deep down I know when the sides are released on Thursday it’s the same s**t