Autopsy Round 9, 2024: Hawthorn v St.Kilda

[The Punter]

Well, we have made progress clearly in one key area.

A few years ago we all complained about not having enough outside runners.

Now we have too many.

 

[The Jack]

Our goalkicking as a whole thing is ******* deplorable. King and Higgins have horribly suspect techniques. Owens looks like hes never actually kicked a footy before.

I think Owens kicking has not only given him the yips, but has zapped him of total confidence. Unless he's 5m out he's never a certainty, and even then I'm never confident. Not with that horrible ball drop, and he cant kick around corners as he proved from 10m out the other week.

He's gone from a assured, fearless rooster to a cowering puppy in front of goals and it's affecting his whole game.

Needs a shrink possibly.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

My thoughts on bonner - he has his moments where his kicking is definitely a weapon. My problem is this team is full of those players that can play at half back and run around getting uncontested ball and getting the rebound going. His defensive side is the issue and you see it when he’s slowly jogging behind his opponent. He’s not intercepting or getting the contested possessions. He seems too tall for the small forwards and too small for the tall forwards.
It puts him in an awkward position. Maybe a move to half forward could be a benefit? Can be a good kick for goal or hit the forwards lace out.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well, we have made progress clearly in one key area.

A few years ago we all complained about not having enough outside runners.

Now we have too many.

Our outsiders got smashed in "meters gained" by the Hawks.
Think its something to do with kicking it to a teammate, and that teammate kicking it to another.

 

[jumperfan]

Does anyone have a good idea as to why we can't develop players? Is it a coaching thing, culture - what exactly is preventing it?

 

[SteeleSaints]

I am glad to see Lyon is copping it in the media because it is warranted, his coaching has been really reactive and tardy for most of the year. Even a young kids manager has had a swipe at him which shows the kid is not happy with how things have been handled. There is no doubt Phillipou is very self confident and hopefully it didnt come out because he was dropped. Its more that the coaches have quashed any flare he had and you can see he second guesses himself everytime he wins the ball.

Lyon has a lot of sole searching to do this week, hopefully he is not too stubborn to read the room and make the changes required.

 

[kick it lace out]

 

[phantom13]

it's obliviously a coaching decision to use the boundaries to move the ball and not the corridor.

Whether RTB would have instructed them to go down the centre in the last minute, I don't have that information.

Maybe that is what he was alluding to in the post match press release.

This would have to be an onfield leadership situation in the last couple of minutes as coaches have no influence at that time.

If we dont have one of those dumbass signs to signal "use the corridor and attack" ill go he.

SURELY we can manage someone to get down to office works with a clip art of a middle lane and a fighter jet or some shit.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Does anyone have a good idea as to why we can't develop players? Is it a coaching thing, culture - what exactly is preventing it?

Coaching

 

[BrutThough]

I think Owens kicking has not only given him the yips, but has zapped him of total confidence. Unless he's 5m out he's never a certainty, and even then I'm never confident. Not with that horrible ball drop, and he cant kick around corners as he proved from 10m out the other week.

He's gone from a assured, fearless rooster to a cowering puppy in front of goals and it's affecting his whole game.

Needs a shrink possibly.

Watching Owens at training and pre game the past 3 weeks, his ball drop is getting bette each week. You can see the work they are doing is starting to come into effect. We just need him to get the ball in games to put it to use.

 

[D2D3]

Well, we have made progress clearly in one key area.

A few years ago we all complained about not having enough outside runners.

Now we have too many.

Yet we still have no outside run somehow

 

[phantom13]

Lyon has a lot of sole searching to do this week, hopefully he is not too stubborn to read the room and make the changes required.

Historically that has always been a criticism of Ross so... guess well learn alot in the next few weeks

 

[EddieMurphy]

You can add Jack Billings to the list.

Well, I disagree.
For the team that went to Lonny and got whacked, I’d have picked,
Acres
Gresham
Hind

I would have found spots for them - and may be even JB!

Stanley? Cripps?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If we dont have one of those dumbass signs to signal "use the corridor and attack" ill go he.

SURELY we can manage someone to get down to office works with a clip art of a middle lane and a fighter jet or some s**t.

YOU .....USE THE CORRIDOR!!!

THAT WAY....OUR GOALS ARE THAT WAY!!!!!

THAT WAS NOT A FREE KICK....I'm pointing at the MOST CORRUPT BAG OF %$& ...

YOU LOT ON BIGFOOTY!!!!!! YES YOU!!!!. ALL OF YOU PULL YOUR HEADS IN.

 

[True Believer]

Lyon has a lot of sole searching to do this week, hopefully he is not too stubborn to read the room and make the changes required.

That's how you want coaching decisions made at our club is it - "reading the room"....???

What about a witch doctor stirring chicken bones in a bowl? Never read so much drivel in my life. As for the nonsense about Pou "second guessing himself", yet more fabricated horse droppings - he still instinctively hand-passes, sometimes to his own detriment.......

 

[SteeleSaints]

Does anyone have a good idea as to why we can't develop players? Is it a coaching thing, culture - what exactly is preventing it?

How many times do we see our forwards win the ball and the only instinct is to handball it off, EVEN when they have time to have a shot on goal. Lyon is so strong on the players adhering to the game plans he quashes any natural flare the kids have, particularly those in the forward line. Garcia is the classic example the kid is a midfielder a ball magnet, yet the last two weeks you can garuantee all he has been told is bring forward tackling pressure. When you focus so much on set plans the kids forget to play their natural game.

I read an article on Sam Taylor last week he said a couple of years ago he studied a lot of tapes on Naughton and went in with certain plans. When it came to the game he had the worst game ever, because he had gone away from his strength which was intercepting. He hasnt watched any visiion of an opponent since. Sometimes players can be 'over coached' and they go too far away from their instinctive games that made them AFL players in the frst place. That particularly happens when a coaching group are feeling the pressure.

 

[True Believer]

Lyon has a lot of sole searching to do this week

Why does he need to look at the bottom of his shoes? How will that help us? Has Lyon lost the bottom of his shoes?

 

[phantom13]

That's how you want coaching decisions made at our club is it - "reading the room"....???

What about a witch doctor stirring chicken bones in a bowl? Never read so much drivel in my life. As for the nonsense about Pou "second guessing himself", yet more fabricated horse droppings - he still instinctively hand-passes, sometimes to his own detriment.......

Having watched his junior stuff he was a break the tackle and kick the ****ing goal then root your missus, shit in the dunny and not flush on the way out sort of confidence player.

Seems the "handball first" thing might be exactly what hes talking bout.

 

[SteeleSaints]

That's how you want coaching decisions made at our club is it - "reading the room"....???

What about a witch doctor stirring chicken bones in a bowl? Never read so much drivel in my life. As for the nonsense about Pou "second guessing himself", yet more fabricated horse droppings - he still instinctively hand-passes, sometimes to his own detriment.......

WTF was that? The entire AFL industry think Lyon is not coaching well and the team are playing a horrible style of footy - yet you believe he should just ignore the messages and keep doing the same. Thats exactly the arrogant attitude that has the club in the current predicament.

 

[phantom13]

WTF was that? The entire AFL industry think Lyon is not coaching well and the team are playing a horrible style of footy - yet you believe he should just ignore the messages and keep doing the same. Thats exactly the arrogant attitude that has the club in the current predicament.

Arrogance without results no less. The best kind of arrogance.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Lyon has a lot of sole searching to do this week, hopefully he is not too stubborn to read the room and make the changes required.

Why does he need to look at the bottom of his shoes? How will that help us? Has Lyon lost the bottom of his shoes?

Well to be fair, he’s always said “let the cobblers cobble”

 

[SteeleSaints]

Well to be fair, he’s always said “let the cobblers cobble”

True he has, but perhaps the cobbler (Harvey) is not very good at cobbling, but you would at least think all the coaches are singing off the same song sheet.

 

[True Believer]

WTF was that? The entire AFL industry think Lyon is not coaching well and the team are playing a horrible style of footy - yet you believe he should just ignore the messages and keep doing the same. Thats exactly the arrogant attitude that has the club in the current predicament.

Like the same "AFL Industry" that thought Hardwick should have been sacked before he won 3 flags?!

Ignoring an echo chamber is not arrogance. The "entire AFL industry" have no idea what goes on inside our club, whether the players are following instructions or what problems the lack of continuity in our team so far this year may have created.

I do know that we looked badly like a team with no recognised small forwards. Instead, we had a high half forward fresh off a six-week lay-off brought straight back in as a small forward out of necessity, along with a what, a rotation of first year players?

AS a team with an already skinny midfield, we are going nowhere while our best mid of the past 2 years is out and we are trying to plug gaps with the likes of Seb Ross and a bunch of kids. The other wonderful alternative is that we rob our half back line of Sinclair to plug midfield gaps.

It will improve if we can have some stability in the team, but besides losing a game we should have won, and not playing particularly well, the sky has not fallen. If Dow can get going and add a layer to the midfield, that will help. If Crouch can get back out there in something resembling a match-fit condition, that will help enormously, but game style means little if you have to play way more kids than is ideal and you have to have a revolving door of changes every week.

 

[phantom13]

Like the same "AFL Industry" that thought Hardwick should have been sacked before he won 3 flags?!

Ignoring an echo chamber is not arrogance. The "entire AFL industry" have no idea what goes on inside our club, whether the players are following instructions or what problems the lack of continuity in our team so far this year may have created.

I do know that we looked badly like a team with no recognised small forwards. Instead, we had a high half forward fresh off a six-week lay-off brought straight back in as a small forward out of necessity, along with a what, a rotation of first year players?

AS a team with an already skinny midfield, we are going nowhere while our best mid of the past 2 years is out and we are trying to plug gaps with the likes of Seb Ross and a bunch of kids. The other wonderful alternative is that we rob our half back line of Sinclair to plug midfield gaps.

It will improve if we can have some stability in the team, but besides losing a game we should have won, and not playing particularly well, the sky has not fallen. If Dow can get going and add a layer to the midfield, that will help. If Crouch can get back out there in something resembling a match-fit condition, that will help enormously, but game style means little if you have to play way more kids than is ideal and you have to have a revolving door of changes every week.

Respectfully, if you listen to Dimma talk about that period he listened and changed ALOT. Listen to his Dyl and Friends podcast and he speaks very openly about needing to change mindset and outcome because of the external pressure that mirrored internal pressure.

I get the whole "if you wouldnt listen to them when youre winning then dont when youre losing" mentality but frankly all weve ever done is lose, so now youre advocating for listening to no one...

 

[Saints43]

And Bevo was gonna get sacked for it too.

I hope he finds another job quickly. Love Bevo as a St Kilda person.