Strategy Ruck and Forward Structure

[Beanstalk]

About time we had a thread just for discussing the ruck department, I think. Too many threads keep getting derailed into a discussion on Trent West, if Nathan Vardy should play at CHF or in the ruck, Mark Blicavs, Simpson and McIntosh' fitness, etc.

Right off the bat - Can Dawson Simpson and Hamish McIntosh play in the same side?

 

[supahoops]

Much prefer to discuss it ad hoc on other threads

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

Tricky re: Simpson & McIntosh - from what we saw this year Simpson could do with a bigger tank (a given when injury layoff is taken into account) and McIntosh may not be able to sustain 4 quarters for much of 2014 either given how long he's had on the sidelines. Considering how much time Vardy and Blicavs got this year you could mount a strong argument for a Simpson/McIntosh + Vardy + Blicavs trifecta.

 

[Beanstalk]

What about a system like Hawthorn - Simpson and McIntosh start the game, and McIntosh is consistently subbed off during the third quarter?

 

[GeelongFTW]

Simpson & hmac would be epic

 

[Catgirl]

About time we had a thread just for discussing the ruck department, I think. Too many threads keep getting derailed into a discussion on Trent West, if Nathan Vardy should play at CHF or in the ruck, Mark Blicavs, Simpson and McIntosh' fitness, etc.

Right off the bat - Can Dawson Simpson and Hamish McIntosh play in the same side?

Potentially.

Can Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy, Blicavs, Hawkins and possibly Walker and Kersten all play in the same side? I doubt it. Who will miss out in 2014?

 

[cats23]

If Simpson and McIntosh were fit enough to play in the same side it would be a huge bonus for us.

Don't know if we would become too 'top heavy', depends what they do with Blitz and the other talls

 

[Beanstalk]

Potentially.

Can Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy, Blicavs, Hawkins and possibly Walker and Kersten all play in the same side? I doubt it. Who will miss out in 2014?

Of those mentioned, Blicavs and Walker, in my opinion, should definitely miss out.

FF: Hawkins
CHF: Vardy

R: Simpson
I/C R: McIntosh

FP???: Kersten

Would take a change to the side's structure to fit five of them in one side, but we will definitely have four.

 

[Partridge]

About time we had a thread just for discussing the ruck department, I think. Too many threads keep getting derailed into a discussion on Trent West, if Nathan Vardy should play at CHF or in the ruck, Mark Blicavs, Simpson and McIntosh' fitness, etc.

Right off the bat - Can Dawson Simpson and Hamish McIntosh play in the same side?

I don't think so. The way the game is going few teams have two huge ruckman. One is fine but someone a little more athletic would be the backup. Based on that I'd say Simpson and Vardy is the best combination (assuming West will be traded or either way won't be playing seniors).

I am absolutely adamant that Simpson is a better number 1 choice than McIntosh if both are (miraculously) fit.

 

[Beanstalk]

If Simpson and McIntosh were fit enough to play in the same side it would be a huge bonus for us.

Don't know if we would become too 'top heavy', depends what they do with Blitz and the other talls

We need to remember - It's not McIntosh and Simpson vs. Opposition Ruck and Opposition Ruck at every centre bounce. It's one of them.

However, having a backup sitting on the bench who is just as good as your first choice for the centre bounce is a brilliant position to be in.

 

[Catgirl]

Of those mentioned, Blicavs and Walker, in my opinion, should definitely miss out.

FF: Hawkins
CHF: Vardy

R: Simpson
I/C R: McIntosh

FP???: Kersten

Would take a change to the side's structure to fit five of them in one side, but we will definitely have four.

So Blicavs, who won the best young player award at our B&F, should go from 22 games in the AFL to playing in the VFL, because of his height. Out of all of them, Blitz is the one with the speed and athleticism to play like another small/mid sized player. Vardy, Walker or McIntosh for me. Though with Hmac on a pretty sizeable contract, the club might feel under pressure to play him.

 

[cats23]

We need to remember - It's not McIntosh and Simpson vs. Opposition Ruck and Opposition Ruck at every centre bounce. It's one of them.

However, having a backup sitting on the bench who is just as good as your first choice for the centre bounce is a brilliant position to be in.

I'd be so happy if they were both fit, but I think it would be a miracle!

I still think they're both a bit 'lumbering', so I'd vote for one of those 2, with Vardy (if he can miraculously stay fit as well )/Blitz

 

[Beanstalk]

So Blicavs, who won the best young player award at our B&F, should go from 22 games in the AFL to playing in the VFL, because of his height. Out of all of them, Blitz is the one with the speed and athleticism to play like another small/mid sized player. Vardy, Walker or McIntosh for me. Though with Hmac on a pretty sizeable contract, the club might feel under pressure to play him.

Didn't say anything about his height - but in every case, if it's Blicavs vs. somebody else, the somebody else wins.

1st ruck? Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy preferred.
2nd ruck? Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy preferred.
CHF? Kersten, Vardy, Walker preferred.
Third tall? Kersten, or a small forward, preferred.
Defence? Mackie, Taylor, Enright, Lonergan, Mackie, Guthrie, Bartel, (Heath Shaw?) preferred.

Where does he fit in?

 

[catempire]

Didn't say anything about his height - but in every case, if it's Blicavs vs. somebody else, the somebody else wins.

1st ruck? Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy preferred.
2nd ruck? Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy preferred.
CHF? Kersten, Vardy, Walker preferred.
Third tall? Kersten, or a small forward, preferred.
Defence? Mackie, Taylor, Enright, Lonergan, Mackie, Guthrie, Bartel, (Heath Shaw?) preferred.

Where does he fit in?

As a non-ruckman.

 

[bulletproof]

Blicavs is going to surprise a lot of people it seems. What he achieved this year in essentially his rookie year (lets consider his five VFL games where no more valuable than a TAC Cup season) was astonishing.

Just keep putting those hurdles (steeplechases?) in front of him and he will keep jumping them.

He can play in several positions, the player he was in his rookie year, is not his ceiling.

He will find a spot, I have no doubt.

 

[alfy!]

As a non-ruckman.

What position then? Genuinely interested.

 

[catempire]

What position then? Genuinely interested.

He'll be tried in a variety of roles but particularly on a wing and in defence.

 

[supahoops]

What position then? Genuinely interested.

Blicavs to me would be the perfect sub - would allow us to cover our talls and not start games top-heavy; could go to a wing, run with someone, relieve a ruckman late in games and generally allow us to reshuffle our side no matter who goes down early. Could carve sides up with his run late and wouldn't trouble the interchange stewards too much with the cap.

 

[The rabbi]

Much prefer to discuss it ad hoc on other threads

You are mischievous little man Super.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

So Blicavs, who won the best young player award at our B&F, should go from 22 games in the AFL to playing in the VFL, because of his height.

With all due respect, there were no other candidates. He can practically do every good/eye-catching thing he did in the ruck in 2013 from on the wing in 2014, where he could become a far more damaging player for us long-term. He was put in the ruck originally in an act of desperation, because no-one else was fit (Walker and Blicavs was the pre-season tandem...yikes). We should focus on making Blicavs an impossible match-up on the wing, or playing a Michael Johnson-style role in the backline. And if that means he plays 75% of the season in the VFL to grow accustomed to the role, I think it will be well worth it. He could be something special filling either of those roles, but in my opinion he will never be a true ruckman.

As for a Simpson/McIntosh combo, I guess we'll cross that bridge if we ever get to it. Assuming McIntosh ever gets back to full fitness, my gut feeling is we can, as Simpson is a lot more mobile and presents much better than I'd previously given him credit for. And McIntosh can be pretty damaging as a goalkicking ruckman. But to me, the preferred set-up would be Simpson and Vardy, with Hawkins and Kersten/Walker in the forward line.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Blicavs to me would be the perfect sub - would allow us to cover our talls and not start games top-heavy; could go to a wing, run with someone, relieve a ruckman late in games and generally allow us to reshuffle our side no matter who goes down early. Could carve sides up with his run late and wouldn't trouble the interchange stewards too much with the cap.

Perhaps eventually. But I think Blicavs needs to master a single role, before being asked to freestyle, based on the team's needs, in a given game. To me, giving Blicavs that role would be a sure-fire way of ensuring he becomes a 'jack of all trades/master of none'

 

[Turbocat]

What about a system like Hawthorn - Simpson and McIntosh start the game, and McIntosh is consistently subbed off during the third quarter?

Don't want any system from them. Ideally you do not want to HAVE to sub specific players

 

[marshhhhh]

Sandilands + Clarke
Hale + Bailey
Kreuzer + Warnock
Pyke + Mumford

Overrated spuds.
Cox + Naitanui are still the #1 ruck pairing by a mile.

 

[marshhhhh]

Hawthorn's ruck has strengthened immensely today unfortunately. But I personally think they are well and truly ****ed without the traitor.

Simpson and Vardy are the #1 duo. A dominant tap ruckman and a good, athletic one, ala Cox/Nat

 

[Whit3y]

play a premiership winning ruckman, play west. we did alrite start of the year didnt we?