Ruck Coach?

[drakeyv2]

Well, with 5 ruckmen on the list in Clarke, Biglands, Hudson, Maric & Meesen, plus 2 rookie ruckmen in Andrews & Griffin and some pinch hitters in Gibson, Krueger, McGregor and maybe even Watts, who is going to be doing the ruck coaching?

Surely with that big an investment in our rucking stocks, we have an obvious deficency in the coaching staff.

Do we have a part timer helping them out? If so who is it? Should we have a full time ruck coach on staff & if so who?

I would love to see Mick Redden involved if possible.

What are your thoughts?

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I was actually thinking that last night. How ironic is it that we have 6 genuine ruckman on our list and no ruck coach.

Benny Marsh is looking for a job..

 

[Mad Dog]

Well, with 5 ruckmen on the list in Clarke, Biglands, Hudson, Maric & Meesen, plus 2 rookie ruckmen in Andrews & Griffin and some pinch hitters in Gibson, Krueger, McGregor and maybe even Watts, who is going to be doing the ruck coaching?

Surely with that big an investment in our rucking stocks, we have an obvious deficency in the coaching staff.

Do we have a part timer helping them out? If so who is it? Should we have a full time ruck coach on staff & if so who?

I would love to see Mick Redden involved if possible.

What are your thoughts?

Excellent point drakeyv2.....it's the one area they haven't invested in AA (After Ayres). The club can call on a few premiership coaches.....Rehn...Pittman...Marsh..Keating.....

Seriously...I think it's an area we need to address with such a large contingent as you say....maybe they will look at keeping Clarke around the club into 2006 in a ruck-coach role. I can't see the likes of Rehn having the time....Mick Redden would be a good choice....but you would think they might have had something in mind before they let Mickan go....??

Don't know what the answer is here - but an excellent point.

 

[tribey]

We'll probably do something silly like draft in Crackers Keenan or Ric Davies.

 

[Jars458]

Question - Do you have to be a former ruckman to be a ruck coach?

 

[Mong]

Question - Do you have to be a former ruckman to be a ruck coach?

I was wondering the same thing. The fact that Pagan, Sheedy, Malthouse etc were defenders hasn't prohibited them from producing effective forward structures or forward line players. For some reason ruckmen are the only type of player that are considered to need training by someone who played the position.


****

 

[Markthirtytwo]

I beleive after all the deputy sheriffs had been chosen, the brains trust are not going down the traditional coaching methods. ie one forward, one back and one centre line coach during the season and no ruck coach will be appointed. They will however do these roles during a game.

Their roles I believe will be to add more resposibility to the game plan.

 

[tribey]

Question - Do you have to be a former ruckman to be a ruck coach?

I'd say it helps.

If I was a young ruckman looking for an edge I'd be wanting someone roughly my height and with a fair ruck resume giving me tips.

How seriously would Ivan the Terrible and Liam Meesen take Eddie Hocking teaching them how to palm down?

 

[Jars458]

I'd say it helps.

If I was a young ruckman looking for an edge I'd be wanting someone roughly my height and with a fair ruck resume giving me tips.

How seriously would Ivan the Terrible and Liam Meesen take Eddie Hocking teaching them how to palm down?

It would help no doubt. Perhaps Clarke will be filling that role and the midfield coach will be filling in the gaps as I guess understanding what the little blokes want to do is half the trouble.

 

[drakeyv2]

Question - Do you have to be a former ruckman to be a ruck coach?

Maybe not, but I would think so.

Ruckwork is highly specialised. Different techniques for centre square work against around the ground stuff, going checkside as against straight up the front. Centre square work alone requires a fair bit of ticker. I think that would be something that a coach would have had to have experienced to be able to teach properly.

I can certainly see why you wouldn't need a ruckman to set up for stop plays at stoppages, but for actually teaching a bloke to get 1st hands on it......

 

[Mong]

How seriously would Ivan the Terrible and Liam Meesen take Eddie Hocking teaching them how to palm down?

Marginally less than Ian Downsborough.

But would they take Denis Pagan seriously in the same situation? Probably.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Marginally less than Ian Downsborough.

But would they take Denis Pagan seriously in the same situation? Probably.

What have you done with ****? You didnt sign off with his user name, come on where is he. ****, **** are you alright?

 

[Mong]

****

 

[Mad Dog]

I'd say it helps.

If I was a young ruckman looking for an edge I'd be wanting someone roughly my height and with a fair ruck resume giving me tips.

How seriously would Ivan the Terrible and Liam Meesen take Eddie Hocking teaching them how to palm down?

 

[tribey]

Marginally less than Ian Downsborough.

But would they take Denis Pagan seriously in the same situation? Probably.

I take the point you're getting at, but there's a distinct difference between teaching a ruckman the art of ruckwork and formulating centre square tactics.

Just as there's a distinct difference between Denis Pagan formulating the Pagan's Paddock forward tactic and actually taking Wayne, Corey or John aside and saying "this is how you body out. this is how you lead. this is how you push off your opponent, etc."

 

[Mong]

I take the point you're getting at, but there's a distinct difference between teaching a ruckman the art of ruckwork and formulating centre square tactics.

Just as there's a distinct difference between Denis Pagan formulating the Pagan's Paddock forward tactic and actually taking Wayne, Corey or John aside and saying "this is how you body out. this is how you lead. this is how you push off your opponent, etc."

I actually agree with you. I was just trying be the devil's advocate of sorts. But I don't think it necessarily requires a specific ruck coach, a large percentage of ruck teaching would involve centre square setups, as you mentioned, reading the play, filling in across half back, positioning yourself in marking contests, playing a kick behind the play. Non-ruck coaches can intsruct this. And for the very specialised art of the actual ruck contest, Clarke could probably help in that area. He's as good as any. How it would fit in with his own training, though I don't know.


****

 

[tribey]

Fair enough

 

[Stinger...]

It would help no doubt. Perhaps Clarke will be filling that role and the midfield coach will be filling in the gaps as I guess understanding what the little blokes want to do is half the trouble.

have to agree Jars...it would appear that Clarke will not only play but do some coaching as well! May do him the world of good as well...a bit of added responsibility!

possibly will become the AFC ruck coach next year???

an option for the club could be to employ someone on a part time basis to work with the youngsters, and put the more senior boys under Clarkes instructions (with input from all other assistants)...dont think we need another body in the coaches box...too many chiefs and all that!

 

[mymansyd]

Personally don't think a full-time ruck coach is all that important. Fine, appoint one if deemed necessary, don't if not.

If need be, Clarke is as good a stoppage ruckman going around, I'm sure he will be imparting (whether he's asked to or not) quite a bit of his knowledge to the younger lads over the next year.

I don't see this as a big issue. Then again, I'm often mistaken.

 

[drakeyv2]

Personally don't think a full-time ruck coach is all that important. Fine, appoint one if deemed necessary, don't if not.

If need be, Clarke is as good a stoppage ruckman going around, I'm sure he will be imparting (whether he's asked to or not) quite a bit of his knowledge to the younger lads over the next year.

I don't see this as a big issue. Then again, I'm often mistaken.

I seem to recall Fantasia & Reid on a couple of occasions saying that each draftee represents a $100,000 (might be $200,000) investment for the club & a rookie is a $50,000 investment.

I wouldn't like them to skimp on the cost of a ruck coach with that sort of investment at stake.

 

[rooboy]

Maybe not, but I would think so.

Ruckwork is highly specialised. Different techniques for centre square work against around the ground stuff, going checkside as against straight up the front. Centre square work alone requires a fair bit of ticker. I think that would be something that a coach would have had to have experienced to be able to teach properly.

I can certainly see why you wouldn't need a ruckman to set up for stop plays at stoppages, but for actually teaching a bloke to get 1st hands on it......

Mate, there can only be one ruck coach......................Trent Ormond Allen

 

[NikkiNoo]

I take the point you're getting at, but there's a distinct difference between teaching a ruckman the art of ruckwork and formulating centre square tactics.

Just as there's a distinct difference between Denis Pagan formulating the Pagan's Paddock forward tactic and actually taking Wayne, Corey or John aside and saying "this is how you body out. this is how you lead. this is how you push off your opponent, etc."

gotta disagree with you there DT - Who is to say that pagan did not teach those things? most of his premiership team were those guys that he had been coaching from under 19's where he would have be teaching them that stuff. To me it seems that you are saying that these guys figured that out all by themselves and coaches only do the tactics bit? or have i just read your comments wrong?

It seems that most of you are all hooked up on the idea that only someone who has played THAT position can coach THAT position. I'm sorry but even if you are a brilliant player does not mean that you can coach (darren jarmen is a case in point). A great coach is someone that understands the sport very well and communicate very well. If you can't communicate your ideas you can't coach - it's as simple as that.

 

[macca23]

gotta disagree with you there DT - Who is to say that pagan did not teach those things? most of his premiership team were those guys that he had been coaching from under 19's where he would have be teaching them that stuff. To me it seems that you are saying that these guys figured that out all by themselves and coaches only do the tactics bit? or have i just read your comments wrong?

It seems that most of you are all hooked up on the idea that only someone who has played THAT position can coach THAT position. I'm sorry but even if you are a brilliant player does not mean that you can coach (darren jarmen is a case in point). A great coach is someone that understands the sport very well and communicate very well. If you can't communicate your ideas you can't coach - it's as simple as that.

Ahhh Nikki. I remember this very same debate and your response a few weeks back. Nothing has changed, has it?

In general I agree with all that you've said, bar one thing. I'm not convinced that a non-ruckman knows and could convey the general art of body positioning and self-protection in the same sense that an eloquent top-line ruckman could. Plays yes - no probs. But the basic fundamentals, including positioning around the ground etc - could pagan teach a ruckman that?? I'm not sure that he can.

 

[macca23]

I feel it coming from Nikki ..........

 

[NikkiNoo]

Ahhh Nikki. I remember this very same debate and your response a few weeks back. Nothing has changed, has it?

In general I agree with all that you've said, bar one thing. I'm not convinced that a non-ruckman knows and could convey the general art of body positioning and self-protection in the same sense that an eloquent top-line ruckman could. Plays yes - no probs. But the basic fundamentals, including positioning around the ground etc - could pagan teach a ruckman that?? I'm not sure that he can.

yep, nothing changed

I have this belief cause of my own experience - now it is in gymnastics and not football - but Gymnastics is much more important in terms of body positioning etc - slightly off centre and a it could cause major damage to the gymnast. Now I myself was not a top gymnast and could not physically do those skills but I can teach them successfully. As a coach you use things like watching videos of others performing the skills and your own ability to observe and then communicate to your gymnast/athlete - this is basic coaching. It has always been a major thing in coaching that you do not physically demonstrate a particular move as this will actually show your athlete your own bad habits. So why can't a person on the smaller size teach ruck? I really can't see where the problem is.