Ruck Solution

[BlackGoanna]

With threads on Gardiner and Leuenberger, the retirment of French, thought I should dedicate a thread to our rucking problem and possible solutions.

Personally I would like to take the punt and recruit young ruckmen over the next 2 drafts.

I think committing pick 35 this year (Renouf?) and another high pick next year will help us tremendously in the long term. The question is can be hang on with 3 average ruckmen in Mclaren, Bryan, Deluca.

Thoughts

 

[sticks74]

I agree, we only need two of the average ruckmen mentioned...
Batson needs more time and the irishman may never make it!

We could also sack the lot (Mclaren, Bryan and Dudluca) and draft Renouf @ 35 and Keating/Gardiner in the PSD...

 

[Jeremias]

Ruck solution

Trade for Laycock
Elevate Batson
Draft Renouf

STAY AWAY FROM GARDINER.

Problem solved

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I like Jeremias' solution. Who or what do you propose we trade for Laycock? Renouf will probably be gone by #35 so #19 is the only way we will get him IMO.

 

[sticks74]

We could give them Prenda, chambers and livo all parcelled into one!

 

[Bluebear]

Ruck solution

Trade for Laycock
Elevate Batson
Draft Renouf

STAY AWAY FROM GARDINER.

Problem solved

This has merit, but doesn't really solve the problem. Laycock hasn't exactly set the world on fire in the ruck, Batson is too young/small and hasn't done enough in the VFL reserves let alone the VFL, let alone make it yet at AFL level. Renouf may make it but will take anumber of years.

Like it or not we either have to take Gardiner or Keating in the PSD, or suck it and see with the current three. We need to keep three on the list capable of playing AFL immediately as injuries happen all too often to these guys and need to be covered. Ditching all of the current guys is not an option.

 

[Jeremias]

I like Jeremias' solution. Who or what do you propose we trade for Laycock? Renouf will probably be gone by #35 so #19 is the only way we will get him IMO.

I think it would solve our ruck problems. Getting 3 young ruckmen can only be good for the development of the club.

I think that it will be hard to trade for Laycock. Is very talented, and Bomber fans know this, and they will not let him go cheaply. Is Fisher an option? Maybe Wiggins and a late pick? Also, it has been rumoured that Laycock and the club are miles apart in contract negotiations. Could we possibly intervene and entice him into nominating for the PSD? Get him for nothing, that would be a great outcome.

Renouf is an interesting one. I'm not so sure he will be gone by 35. He may be though, and perhaps we should treat his situation similar to that of the Hawks with Max Bailey last year. They took him earlier than expected in the anticipation that he would be gone by their next pick. I think a similar scenario will unfold with Renouf, so I would not be against picking him a bit earlier at pick 19. Ideal scenario would be:
1. Gibbs
17. O'Brien
19. Brown
35. Renouf
However, I see us taking Renouf earlier, so it may turn out like:
1. Gibbs
17. O'Brien
19. Renouf
35. Moss

Both scenarios show no next pick, having possibly traded that for Laycock. Either way, we get another developing ruckman in Renouf. Maybe, if he is gone or if we do decide to utilize our later picks, a Jacobs or other ruckman may be the way to go. A ruck division of Batson, Laycock, Renouf and McLaren isn't all that bad. Bryan and or Deluca will still be around, and while they aren't great, they can provide some asistance.

Will be interesting to see what the club does.

 

[sticks74]

Why not get rid of them? What are they giving us at the moment??
Like i said, ditch all three... draft Renouf and pick up either Gardiner or Keating in the PSD

 

[Jeremias]

This has merit, but doesn't really solve the problem. Laycock hasn't exactly set the world on fire in the ruck, Batson is too young/small and hasn't done enough in the VFL reserves let alone the VFL, let alone make it yet at AFL level. Renouf may make it but will take anumber of years.

Like it or not we either have to take Gardiner or Keating in the PSD, or suck it and see with the current three. We need to keep three on the list capable of playing AFL immediately as injuries happen all too often to these guys and need to be covered. Ditching all of the current guys is not an option.

Batson too small? How big would you like him to bee? Is 200+ centimetres and 95+ kilograms not big enough for you? Too young? So we shouldn't elevate or use him because he is too young? Are you advocating that we should abolish the youth policy and continuously pick up old hacks from other clubs? I hope not! Batson does plenty in the VFL reserves. Constantly in the best players and leading goalkickers. Needs to be given the opportunities to perform in the VFL seniors, otherwise it is impossiblr to determine where he is at as a footballer. It is ridiculous that he hasn't been given adequate opportunities-that's why he will either be elevated or re-rookied.

Laycock will be at least a pretty good footballer. What is good about him is not only does he ruck well, but he also has very good hands and can be very damaging as a resting ruckman in the forward line or as a key position forward just to mix it up.

A duo of Laycock and Batson would be ok-one rucking and the other resting in the forward line. For too long w have been the victims of our opposition having that extra ruckman to push deep into their forward line and causing headaches for our undersized defenders-our games vs Richmond is a perfect example. Let us rest a ruckman forward, and take the upper hand. Let them worry about us, not us about them.

A ruck division of Batson, Laycock, Aisake, Renouf, McLaren and to a lesser extent Deluca and Bryan is pretty promising. They would not need the assistance of Gardiner or Keating.

 

[carltonfan43]

I think it would solve our ruck problems. Getting 3 young ruckmen can only be good for the development of the club.

I think that it will be hard to trade for Laycock. Is very talented, and Bomber fans know this, and they will not let him go cheaply. Is Fisher an option? Maybe Wiggins and a late pick? Also, it has been rumoured that Laycock and the club are miles apart in contract negotiations. Could we possibly intervene and entice him into nominating for the PSD? Get him for nothing, that would be a great outcome.

Renouf is an interesting one. I'm not so sure he will be gone by 35. He may be though, and perhaps we should treat his situation similar to that of the Hawks with Max Bailey last year. They took him earlier than expected in the anticipation that he would be gone by their next pick. I think a similar scenario will unfold with Renouf, so I would not be against picking him a bit earlier at pick 19. Ideal scenario would be:
1. Gibbs
17. O'Brien
19. Brown
35. Renouf
However, I see us taking Renouf earlier, so it may turn out like:
1. Gibbs
17. O'Brien
19. Renouf
35. Moss

Both scenarios show no next pick, having possibly traded that for Laycock. Either way, we get another developing ruckman in Renouf. Maybe, if he is gone or if we do decide to utilize our later picks, a Jacobs or other ruckman may be the way to go. A ruck division of Batson, Laycock, Renouf and McLaren isn't all that bad. Bryan and or Deluca will still be around, and while they aren't great, they can provide some asistance.

Will be interesting to see what the club does.

could u tell me a little about the players which u should reckon we should get in the draft cause gibbs is the only 1 i know much about. thanks

 

[Jeremias]

Why not get rid of them? What are they giving us at the moment??
Like i said, ditch all three... draft Renouf and pick up either Gardiner or Keating in the PSD

All 3? Who are you referring to?

 

[Jeremias]

could u tell me a little about the players which u should reckon we should get in the draft cause gibbs is the only 1 i know much about. thanks

I'm not the greatest person to ask-I haven't seen much of them, others have seen far more, but here are my thoughts:

-Gibbs: Do I need to elaborate? Clear number 1 pick IMO

-O'Brien: Quick, skillful smallish defender and midfielder. Good speed, especially on the burst. Could really be a damaging runner in the AFL. Saw him at the Championships, and loved when he was moved into the middle and given licence to charge forward into the forward 50. Very exciting stuff, which I would love to see him emulate at the Blues.

-Renouf: Ruckman. Tall, pretty good rucking skills. Not great around the ground and skill-wise, but will improve. 2nd best ruckman in the draft. Could go anywhere from 15-40.

-Brown: Big defender. Strong, very good body on body. Reasonable pace and skills. Like Renouf, could go anywhere in the same range. Ready made FB.

**Would be a choice between those 2 (Renouf and Brown for our 2nd round pick)

-Moss: Centreman. Small, skillful, reasonable pace. Certainly has ability and a bit of flair. Whether we need him or not is a different story. COuld be gone by our pick.

The rest is just speculative. If Proud slips down to our 2nd round pick, he is worth it. Tim Houlihan a possibility for a later pick.

 

[marcmurphy3]

I think we need to go for best available for our second and priority picks. I don't want us taking Renouf if there are two players much better around at that time. This would be a big mistake. Renouf would still take years to develop. We should just hope that Renouf falls to 35 and if he doesn't we should just draft a jacobs or someone. Could Tippet also be an option in the ruck?

I think that that we'll take an established ruckman. I think people forget just how long ruckman take to develop. So there would be very little chance that Renouf would play next season anyway.

 

[2centsworth]

IMO we should look after our mid field with our 1 and 17. I don't know much about the young ruckman in the draft but all the talk is about Leuenberger. If he is available at 18, why not. But I would like to see a CHB before a ruckman.
Gardiner would be worth a punt if nothing else is available in the PSD if his body (and mind) is up to it. He's only just turned 27 and on his day is better than any ruckman we have had for years.
Lets face it, we won't be short of good draft picks in the next couple of years.

 

[trueblue_91]

IMO we should look after our mid field with our 1 and 17. I don't know much about the young ruckman in the draft but all the talk is about Leuenberger. If he is available at 18, why not. But I would like to see a CHB before a ruckman.
Gardiner would be worth a punt if nothing else is available in the PSD if his body (and mind) is up to it. He's only just turned 27 and on his day is better than any ruckman we have had for years.
Lets face it, we won't be short of good draft picks in the next couple of years.

Will be long gone

 

[HBF]

...or could just draft either Kruzer or Bellchambers in next years draft.

 

[Sticks 4]

Ruck solution

Trade for Laycock
Elevate Batson
Draft Renouf

STAY AWAY FROM GARDINER.

Problem solved

Yep, like that.

I'm coming around to the thinking of developing our own young ruckmen rather than trading for older guys. It would go against everything else we're trying to achieve. Me MUST stick to the youth policy

 

[BlackGoanna]

Ruck solution

Trade for Laycock
Elevate Batson
Draft Renouf

STAY AWAY FROM GARDINER.

Problem solved

Not sure how we are going to go about trading for Laycock. The bombers will demand Fisher and they are in as much need of a ruckman as Carlton. Let's look at what we can control.

We will need to keep 2 of Deluca, Bryan and Mclaren. They are all cheap and can be serviceable if required.

I agree that we elevate Batson, give him 1 year and see how he goes. I agree that we need to draft Renouf. We may now need to take him at 19 with the loss of French.

We will need to take either Gardiner or Keating in the PSD.

This will give us:

Gardiner or Keating (1st Ruck)
Mclaren (Back up 1)
Deluca (Back up 2)
Batson (developing)
Renouf (developing)

 

[SurreyBlue]

Laycock for Sporn or Livingston. Fair, top picks for top picks. None have shown enough to command any more.

 

[Blues_Man]

Young ruckmen take years longer to develop than other players so drafting a young ruckman is not a solution to our immediate rucking problem ..the fact is we need a ready to go ruckman ..and unfortunately that means either Gardiner or keating .
I'm hoping it's Keating .

 

[Smell The Glove]

-Draft on a best available policy in this year's draft (which means probably not getting a ruckman)
-Draft an experienced ruckman out of the PSD
-Draft a young ruckman next year

The draft is far too good to draft on a needs basis. One advantage of having so many holes is that be drafting on a best available policy you are bound to address a need with just about every pick. Forget drafting a young ruckman this year unless they are a bargain.

 

[Salaryman]

-Draft on a best available policy in this year's draft (which means probably not getting a ruckman)
-Draft an experienced ruckman out of the PSD
-Draft a young ruckman next year

The draft is far too good to draft on a needs basis. One advantage of having so many holes is that be drafting on a best available policy you are bound to address a need with just about every pick. Forget drafting a young ruckman this year unless they are a bargain.

Well said, best available this year....next year we can start to look at needs with Kreuzer, Bellchambers and McEvoy eligible.

 

[BlackGoanna]

-Draft on a best available policy in this year's draft (which means probably not getting a ruckman)
-Draft an experienced ruckman out of the PSD
-Draft a young ruckman next year

The draft is far too good to draft on a needs basis. One advantage of having so many holes is that be drafting on a best available policy you are bound to address a need with just about every pick. Forget drafting a young ruckman this year unless they are a bargain.

Agree well put. I have been thinking all sorts of options but I hope this is the course they take. Unless we get Renouf at 35 forget it and concentrate on the PSD and next years draft.

Well done

 

[oaksy]

i think we should look at the kangaroos ruck stocks (hale, mcintosh, moran). they have three very promising young ruckman that will be fighting for spots in the next few years. i have no idea what their contract status is though, but we should definately find out and try and lure one of them here with the promise that they will be in our best 22.

 

[drusswaylander]

Unfortunately Gardiner or Keating would be a step backward for the club Besides Gardiner being trouble with a capital T, he just hasn't been the same player since his injuries and would be a huge risk even without the baggage. Keating is injury prone and struggles to get fit. We already have enough players who struggle with their weight, lets not add another one
If we must bring experienced players into the club we need blokes who will be an example to the younger ones