Autopsy Saints v Dees

[BrutThough]

I have lots of thoughts and I'm really pissed off 14 hours afterwards, but here is the crux of it for me:

They don't care enough.

All the easy dropped marks demonstrated a lack of concentration and care.

And for the devoted supporters: they don't deserve you. The effort and care is not, and hardly ever, reciprocated.

Take Jack Sinclair, who yesterday played the worst 31 disposal game in the history of football. He didn't GAF. Grant Thomas has said for a while he is a pick and choose player, but only yesterday did I end up agreeing with him. He's our captain by the way.

I grew up hating Essendon. I was born in 1980 and all we ever did was lose to them. At school and elsewhere I was surrounded by Essendon supporters who rubbed it in, acted like success was their birthright, and were generally obnoxious.

But I think Melbourne are my most hated team now, for one important reason: they got what we want, and they got it because the AFL intervened to save them. In 2012-2013 they were Fitzroy. If they had been the Doncaster Football Club, they would have died, but they were the Melbourne Football Club, so because of their age and name, they were deemed worthy of saving. An intervention we would never receive under any circumstances. AFL funded hand picked CEO and Coach. By 2021, they had their flag. The only teams that have properly bottomed out in the 18 team era and won flags both did so with AFL intervention: Melbourne and Brisbane. That can't happen to us. So their supporters are deemed by the league more worthy than us.

The St Kilda players get what they deserve, and their families to some extent. But the supporters don't get what we deserve for our devotion: success. I'd even settle for reciprocal effort and care. But no. A few showed up yesterday: Wilkie, Ryan (great effort to keep playing), Macrae in the second half.

And I won't leave, because I know the minute I quit those <redacted>, they'll start winning, just to spite me.

I dont think the 'they dont care' thing is accurate at all.

You could easily mount the argument that they are putting too much pressure on themselves because they care about the result which is leading them to second guessing and fumbling simple things because they know the importance of nailing them.

 

[PJays]

It's still rare to have more that one change to the ladder after the first 6 to 8 rounds. If it goes to script we probably don't win more than the Port and WCE match and even the Port match looks like hope than a certainty.

Look, I think comments like this, while totally fair, are mostly unhelpful.

GWS are missing probably 2 of their best 3 players (Green and Taylor), plus several others from best 22.

St Kilda's done alright at their ground in recent years (last 3 games - wins in 2021 and 2023, 11 pt loss in 2025).

Let's just follow the cliche and "take it one game at a time".

 

[BrutThough]

WTF. Alright, not sure SOS is a good operator.

Dont read too much into Tom Morris and his reports on what he's heard people think our players are getting paid.

 

[gringo2011]

Whilst i do agree with this his answer to the NAS question (why was he off for 6 minutes) was waffling old man yelling at clouds stuff.

He is very good at deflecting and somehow his answer did that but a decent journo would have followed him up there.

The media just want to find a cheap headline. Good coaches bat them away. He does that.

 

[gringo2011]

I have tried to calm down and sleep it off. But I feel increasingly agitated at what has played out so far.

I put both my hands up and say I was delighted he was back. I wanted him back. It renewed something in me that was flaming out.

But aside from 2023. It’s been a lot of bullshit and not what I signed up for. Standards have improved. But not to the extent he set prior and that’s what I wanted.

We aren’t hard to beat and that’s the one thing he guaranteed. I’m not seeing the elevation of average footballers that he always got. That’s the standards missing.

It’s just all bullshit and I feel dirty admitting this. But I’m very close to turning on him. It’s been 4 seasons ffs.

Missed kicks. Dropped marks. Fumbles. Dumb decisions. A lack of clarity in role and game plan. A lack of ownership and accountability.

He has gotten everything he has wanted. EVERYTHING.

We shouldn’t be 0 ****ing 2.

And he can dress up this pig however he wants. But close enough is not good enough. He promised actions and we aren’t seeing them.

Probably should have put him in as a director of footy role and put in a young coach from a good system.

 

[phantom13]

Hill turned it over so many times

Elite kick they reckon

Said it for years that hes not. Nails a few wormburners and everyone froths but he misses alot of the simple ones and rarely hits the clutch ones.

Look, I think comments like this, while totally fair, are mostly unhelpful.

GWS are missing probably 2 of their best 3 players (Green and Taylor), plus several others from best 22.

St Kilda's done alright at their ground in recent years (last 3 games - wins in 2021 and 2023, 11 pt loss in 2025).

Let's just follow the cliche and "take it one game at a time".

Collingwood were missing Howe and Moore and it didnt help us. Melbourne dont even have a Howe or Moore and didnt help us (and were now down Ryan who has looked the most threatening forward).

 

[Mowman]

I didn't notice him or Carroll's turnovers. I thought he seemed everywhere. He's always been hit and miss.

He was every and tried his guts out but turned it over a bit

And would be happy to never see Carrol again

 

[BrutThough]

Pou still looks like a first-year player. Has zero composure and is so slow. Always rushed and panicked.

Him and Macrae are a liability in the midfield.

Maybe try him in the Webster role.

Pou needs a month to settle himself back into the middle.

He basically missed a year of his midfield development with his injuries last year and has been placed immediately into a bigger role with completely different people. He will be fine long term.

 

[stavro#4]

Probably should have put him in as a director of footy role and put in a young coach from a good system.

It’s Enrights gameplan is it not?

That’s the thing that looks like Jabba the hut out there.

 

[Mowman]

Some broken spirits in here from some that I thought would never turn

 

[Mowman]

WTF. Alright, not sure SOS is a good operator.

Tom Morris at about 8.20


Also said Pou hasn’t won his team mates over
Which has been known for a while

 

[Broski]

After being able to sleep the result off, I still have this level of frustration because we should be 2-0 or at least 1-1. The only reason we aren't sitting with either of those records is due to our inability to convert scoring opportunities.

Yes, there are other aspects of the game we need to work on, but I believe 80+ per cent of our ills comes from blokes not being able to hit targets, resulting in turnovers and goals the other way, and blokes not being able to kick goals.

We kicked 6.12 in second half yesterday. We can't be going at 33.33 per cent conversion and expect to win games. The Dees went at 9.5 (64.3 per cent). They did more with less... 13 point margin.

Additionally, I was slightly surprised that they had a higher average age and games played compared to us. I can seem them troubling some teams this year. I don't think they will be as bad as many expect. Still sucks though.

 

[Broski]

SEN just went with the Pou signed for 2027 and 28 middle of last year at a mill a year

Surely not. That would taking the absolute urine if true.

 

[The Punter]

I dont think the 'they dont care' thing is accurate at all.

You could easily mount the argument that they are putting too much pressure on themselves because they care about the result which is leading them to second guessing and fumbling simple things because they know the importance of nailing them.

Take the one in the third quarter where the Melbourne goal would have been marked on the line.

If they put too much pressure on themselves, it would have been two blokes on the goal line. Siege mentality. Instead, Sinclair barely moved.

 

[BrutThough]

Take the one in the third quarter where the Melbourne goal would have been marked on the line.

If they put too much pressure on themselves, it would have been two blokes on the goal line. Siege mentality. Instead, Sinclair barely moved.

They f*cked up that moment. That doesnt equate to not caring.

I know supporters love to roll that out because it makes them feel better about things not working out and it's a better explanation than coming to terms with players just not being good enough. But no one goes through the preseason they just did and everything that entails to just not care in rd1. The players want to win and want to be better. Sinclair has a decade of football showing a strong desire to improve and be better. He didnt just suddenly wake up this far into his career, with a promising squad around him and decide not care about the result.

 

[Sully111]

If Pou's out, Macrae has to stay in. But I would like to try Owens in a contested midfield role at some stage.

The impact of a preseason is being shown in the difference between Hill and Wood. Hill is running on top of the ground, looking fresh and energised. Wood looks slow and half the player he should be.

Collard will be in if Ryan doesnt get up. But maybe there is a role for him to add that tackling pressure up forward anyway?

It's never going to happen... and it kills me.

 

[Sully111]

On Ross and his pressers

Fans watch them. He owes it to those fans to not be a flippant douchebag.

He doesn't have to give trade secrets away or throw players under the bus but he could show the supporters he's taking it seriously and answer some questions without making it seem like it's some sort of game to him.

 

[stfan]

Hill seemed to be excellent.

I see his game somewhat differently. Last week Hill was good in both his "get ball" and "use ball" game.

This week his "get ball" was good again but his "use ball" was not IMO.

This week too many poor decisions and execution in Hill's disposal.



Take very late in the game Hill very deep in defence. He has two nearby options up field to release the ball to.

He chooses not to pass to the closer completely unmanned St Kilda player, but instead to the slightly further away team mate positioned between two Dees and he kicked to where he his team mate was and not with a kick to minimise any spoil to occur kick. It was easy for the Dees to run in and spoil.



Now we are meant to a be a running team. Better decision would have been to pass to the closer unmanned team mate. That player then runs, drawing the closer Dee to him...and then handballs over the top to the next St Kilda player. Quick release then becomes rinse and repeat to move the ball down the ground.

You build handball chains buy getting the ball to team mates in space.


Kicking the ball to a stationary team mate who just has to wait for ball just cedes the advantage to the opposition as they can just run in and spoil and knock the St Kilda player over.

As a team our "use ball" by hand and foot game was our biggest problem both last week and this week.

 

[feelthepou]

What a fiasco. I was at a friend's birthday with a dees supporter, told him I was on aeroplane mode and don't discuss it. Tried not to read into his looks but got nervous when I saw he was actively watching it on his phone kater. Then on the way home I saw what briefly looked like dees scarfs hanging out the window - I quickly blocked the car with my hand from view as a overtook them, burrying my head in the sand and having a bad feeling.

Wilkie had a stinker, and a lot flowed from there. Annoying skill errors and sometimes kicking up the wing to 3 or 4 on 1, luckily it got killed over the line but some interesting decisions, some nice hand ball chains.
Cama just doesn't trust himself to kick, or the green light from peers and coaches - hope he gets that developing quick.
Higgins is often alone in space in the f50, but standing still - hope he can lead into those spots on the run and make it less of a risky interceptable option.

I am looking forward to seeing Stocker, Loc or Hunter (both when fit) for Carroll. Trav if he's ever going to get the call up again, even break glass and expose Armstrong.
McRae had a stinker, Sharman a stinker.
The box is working hard but last week I thought unfairly criticized - this week he looked dropable but for who, his Mate banners or finch?
Keep with experience for the next few weeks and if we can't get a W or two, then some bigger changes to be made.
On a positive side, I liked Hugo putting on the burners on a few occasions getting away from stoppage and some decent inside 50 entries and tap ons. Also max hall, RR.
It hurt having two less rotations on the bench, it hurt not having Marshall, it hurt loosing pou, and it hurt fumbling and missing some gettable goals, it hurt having van R having a field day (system more than camas fault - needed help) Melbourne also missed some gettable ones. So the rotations really was the difference in the end for mine. We struggled to run it out and looked gassed, TDK and MacRae the most. They were trying. All in all it's depressing, hope the qwuad for pou is just a cork and the shoulder is mild for flyin.

 

[AFaiL]

After being able to sleep the result off, I still have this level of frustration because we should be 2-0 or at least 1-1. The only reason we aren't sitting with either of those records is due to our inability to convert scoring opportunities.

Yes, there are other aspects of the game we need to work on, but I believe 80+ per cent of our ills comes from blokes not being able to hit targets, resulting in turnovers and goals the other way, and blokes not being able to kick goals.

We kicked 6.12 in second half yesterday. We can't be going at 33.33 per cent conversion and expect to win games. The Dees went at 9.5 (64.3 per cent). They did more with less... 13 point margin.

Additionally, I was slightly surprised that they had a higher average age and games played compared to us. I can seem them troubling some teams this year. I don't think they will be as bad as many expect. Still sucks though.

Sure, but fixing "conversion" is not so simple. It is coming from pure panic and lack of composure. We do not have the list profile to handle the pressure that is being applied externally and internally "be the best saints ever". I see what they are trying, but it is not working.

If 66 weren't the best saints ever, then 09-10 were and if this current mob is trying to claim to pass: Roo, Lenny, Dal, Joey, BJ, Fisher, Gram, Milne, Ball and Gilbert... well, think again.

Ross loves relying on stats to say how much we were in it, and how close it was. The facts are Melbourne are ain full rebuild, have a pretty average list and blokes like 33yo Miochek made us look 3rd rate.

I am glad he backed Caminiti in, I'm sure he will feel warm and fuzzy but after the 3rd goal, you shift. Teach him during training, not in games we need to win. IDGAF what he did on him in the 2nd half, the damage was well and truly done.

Carrol/Box/Keeler (does he know how tall he is??) McRae OUT
Stocker (has a damn crack whihc is what we need), Banfield, hunter and Ro in

and pray.

 

[phantom13]

On Ross and his pressers

Fans watch them. He owes it to those fans to not be a flippant douchebag.

He doesn't have to give trade secrets away or throw players under the bus but he could show the supporters he's taking it seriously and answer some questions without making it seem like it's some sort of game to him.

Yeh this is a good shout.

His whole "let cobblers do the cobbling" stuff is funny when youre winning or positive but it gets pretty tiresome when youre losing.

You dont really get to be flippant and arrogant when youre coaching a cellar dweller

 

[The Punter]

They f*cked up that moment. That doesnt equate to not caring.

I know supporters love to roll that out because it makes them feel better about things not working out and it's a better explanation than coming to terms with players just not being good enough. But no one goes through the preseason they just did and everything that entails to just not care in rd1. The players want to win and want to be better. Sinclair has a decade of football showing a strong desire to improve and be better. He didnt just suddenly wake up this far into his career, with a promising squad around him and decide not care about the result.

Just remember: I said "not care enough".

My analysis based on what I saw having attended the game remains the same. The repeated dropped marks clearly indicates a lack of concentration. Concentration is a choice. I think that would have changed throughout the game if sufficient care was present, but it didn't. My view is on what I saw, rather than some broader analysis of what people have been like their entire lives.

 

[phantom13]

How many wins makes finals this year?

Ive just done OUR predictor for the year (yeh yeh im getting ahead of myself, whatever it took 2 minutes) and have us on 12 wins and i wasnt being uber conservative (ive got us beating Carlton twice which on current form is a coin toss).

 

[sauce_head]

A neutral just wrote to me to say what a great entertaining game it was. And that the Saints played well. Not sure it was quite seen that way in here!

Lots of lead changes I suppose. Neutral would have loved it. We should have accounted for them easily if we are serious.

 

[jwikked]

On Ross and his pressers

Fans watch them. He owes it to those fans to not be a flippant douchebag.

Perfectly said. He views it as him vs the media, which would be fine - but it's the only way supporters can find out what's going on. The media is asking the questions that we want to hear.