Autopsy Saints v Dees

[austinnn]

I thought Hird much more measured with deeper perspective:

I thought it was interesting to see the varying lens in which Lewis and Hird saw Nas.

Lewis was approaching it from a system perspective, Hird was looking at it from the viewpoint of an elite player putting a team on his shoulders, as he used to.

So it depends if you want Nasiah the messiah or St Kilda the formidable unit regardless of which players are performing and which are cut out. Of course the easy answer is you want both, and most great teams have a few mercurial players or at least one.

I agree with Hird that Nas is very young to take on this role and is still working it out, he's not the finished product yet, and it's not like he went missing in either game, just wasn't as effective as his best.

I also agree with Lewis that more accountability would be a good thing, but if his teammates and coaches are happy removing that responsibility from him and they plan and play accordingly, then there's nothing more to say; it is clear from the first two games that this style needs some more fine tuning.

 

[jwint43]

I always try not to look on here after a tough loss for a few days so that I can reflect properly and not emotionally. A few thoughts:

- Despite it being a tough loss, it was probably the best H&A game of footy I can remember watching for some time. I think Melbourne are going to surprise a few this year. They have blooded way more first round picks over the last few years than people realise. We still should have won this.

- We are so close to unlocking a potent game plan, there are stretches where we look absolutely electric. We are just 10% off in a number of areas and just simply lack composure when it matters. I'd be more concerned if we got played off the park twice. The narrative and belief is far different if we are 2-0.

- It's a timely reminder that you should never expect all your young players to take the leap at the same time in a linear fashion. It's never as simple as that. Windy looks every bit the player I thought he would be, but Wilson and Pou especially are works in progress.

- Caminiti is not ready and it was naive to assume he would suddenly turn into a star defender after what we saw last year. He needs to go forward and take the best defender because Keeler is so far off the pace. God I wish we had Max King.

 

[Yawkey way]

Were really not thin on key backs at all. Wilkie and JSOS are the two mains and theyre as good as any, we then have Camma and Howard, thats 4 guys all AFL level for 2 spots before you factor in Barratt and Tauru. GWS dont have another Taylor in their back pocket, no one has depth to cover a Weitering or Andrews.

Key forwards youre right but again who really does? GWS sort of and the Dogs through being kissed on the dick with father sons but compare us to Collingwood who arguarably dont have one key forward let alone depth.

Mids is fair although i think on talent alone were fine, were just not playing well together at the moment.

I’d argue Howard and Wilkie are both aging, Howard is shot, Wilkie is undersized. Camaniti is a project bin chicken style, the others are not key backs.

Head forward and we have ming, the less said about his struggles the better.

We’re in a jam, we have a list with a lot of holes. No point going over how we got here we just have to accept that for the next few years we’re not winning any flags. Develop our young players, see what happens with Nas in two years and keep drafting.

Collingwood are interesting, they have loaded up on smalls up forward and relied on a tall to provide a contest. Last year they had, Cox, Mihocek, McStay, and Membrey. This year they look thin and will struggle imo.

Anyway it’s just another year, disappointing start, plenty of young players to follow, a couple of stars, lots no NQR players.

 

[Remboy]

I always try not to look on here after a tough loss for a few days so that I can reflect properly and not emotionally. A few thoughts:

- Despite it being a tough loss, it was probably the best H&A game of footy I can remember watching for some time. I think Melbourne are going to surprise a few this year. They have blooded way more first round picks over the last few years than people realise. We still should have won this.

- We are so close to unlocking a potent game plan, there are stretches where we look absolutely electric. We are just 10% off in a number of areas and just simply lack composure when it matters. I'd be more concerned if we got played off the park twice. The narrative and belief is far different if we are 2-0.

- It's a timely reminder that you should never expect all your young players to take the leap at the same time in a linear fashion. It's never as simple as that. Windy looks every bit the player I thought he would be, but Wilson and Pou especially are works in progress.

- Caminiti is not ready and it was naive to assume he would suddenly turn into a star defender after what we saw last year. He needs to go forward and take the best defender because Keeler is so far off the pace. God I wish we had Max King.

Good post. I think at some point this year it will click and when it does we're going to be a very good side.

 

[phantom13]

I’d argue Howard and Wilkie are both aging, Howard is shot, Wilkie is undersized. Camaniti is a project bin chicken style, the others are not key backs.

Head forward and we have ming, the less said about his struggles the better.

We’re in a jam, we have a list with a lot of holes. No point going over how we got here we just have to accept that for the next few years we’re not winning any flags. Develop our young players, see what happens with Nas in two years and keep drafting.

Collingwood are interesting, they have loaded up on smalls up forward and relied on a tall to provide a contest. Last year they had, Cox, Mihocek, McStay, and Membrey. This year they look thin and will struggle imo.

Anyway it’s just another year, disappointing start, plenty of young players to follow, a couple of stars, lots no NQR players.

Eeeesh this is bleaker than me.

Wilkie is 30 and has plenty of good footy left in him while we draft and or develop someone.

The discussion was more on depth anyway and if Camma is the project and Howard is the backup id argue thats pretty good. Who comes in at the blues if Weitering goes down? GWS if Taylor goes down, Collingwood when Moore goes down.

Best 23 FB/CHBs dont grow on trees, if youre even half decent youre starting somewhere, not playing twos, same goes for rucks hence the trade merry go round every year.

We lack depth in key forwards (but again most clubs do) and id argue small defenders and small forwards (or at least any that can stay healthy) but key backs is to me the one area we dont lack depth or quality we just need to get the system working.

 

[phantom13]

I always try not to look on here after a tough loss for a few days so that I can reflect properly and not emotionally. A few thoughts:

- Despite it being a tough loss, it was probably the best H&A game of footy I can remember watching for some time. I think Melbourne are going to surprise a few this year. They have blooded way more first round picks over the last few years than people realise. We still should have won this.

- We are so close to unlocking a potent game plan, there are stretches where we look absolutely electric. We are just 10% off in a number of areas and just simply lack composure when it matters. I'd be more concerned if we got played off the park twice. The narrative and belief is far different if we are 2-0.

- It's a timely reminder that you should never expect all your young players to take the leap at the same time in a linear fashion. It's never as simple as that. Windy looks every bit the player I thought he would be, but Wilson and Pou especially are works in progress.

- Caminiti is not ready and it was naive to assume he would suddenly turn into a star defender after what we saw last year. He needs to go forward and take the best defender because Keeler is so far off the pace. God I wish we had Max King.

Good post, not sure i quite see the same degree of positives as you and ultimately i think its really unhelpful to say "well we COULD be 2-0" cause were not but otherwise this is pretty measured.

With a week of reflection on Camma (who i openly love and see much more positively than others) I think we really have no choice to persist with him as the key defender.

Were clearly going to be a system defence but every system still needs a one out man on man FB and whilst Camma well and truly had his colors lowered as has been noted JVR had a blinder and ive actually thought for a few years hes looked capable of this, hes at the right age and is now playing in a team that moves the ball quick. His 6 goals i think all came from marks on the lead (i stand to be corrected) with Camma getting zero help and us leaving a paddock of space for leading lanes. Watching the game last night Dane Rampe a VERY good defender got absolutely smoked by Jack Gunston because of the same issue and it seems footy in 2026 is going to allow that to happen at times.

Camma is gonna get beaten but i still think in a good system defence where he has a singular role and we defend the ground better he is more than capable of being a solid citizen, Zac Dawson type and ultimately if its not gonna be him then its gotta be Howard (who is no better and is getting older) or were trading and paying big bucks for someone when we already have huge dollars tied up elsewhere.

 

[Yawkey way]

Eeeesh this is bleaker than me.

Wilkie is 30 and has plenty of good footy left in him while we draft and or develop someone.

The discussion was more on depth anyway and if Camma is the project and Howard is the backup id argue thats pretty good. Who comes in at the blues if Weitering goes down? GWS if Taylor goes down, Collingwood when Moore goes down.

Best 23 FB/CHBs dont grow on trees, if youre even half decent youre starting somewhere, not playing twos, same goes for rucks hence the trade merry go round every year.

We lack depth in key forwards (but again most clubs do) and id argue small defenders and small forwards (or at least any that can stay healthy) but key backs is to me the one area we dont lack depth or quality we just need to get the system working.

Backline is all wrong, we need more run and a JWeb replacement.

Nas and Sincs off hall back was probably our greatest strength. Wilkie, battle, Howard, JWeb, Nas, Sinclair. We need to get that balance back and we need that run off halfback.

It’s not just the backline the whole team has looked unbalanced and has played that way. Marshall and stocker will help but we need a few more changes imo.

 

[phantom13]

Backline is all wrong, we need more run and a JWeb replacement.

Nas and Sincs off hall back was probably our greatest strength. Wilkie, battle, Howard, JWeb, Nas, Sinclair. We need to get that balance back and we need that run off halfback.

It’s not just the backline the whole team has looked unbalanced and has played that way. Marshall and stocker will help but we need a few more changes imo.

Yeh this i agree with, just dont think the depth in tall backs is actually an issue.

 

[borderbarry]

i HAVE a lot of faith in O,CONNELL to hold down one HBF eventuallly

 

[gringo2011]

I thought it was interesting to see the varying lens in which Lewis and Hird saw Nas.

Lewis was approaching it from a system perspective, Hird was looking at it from the viewpoint of an elite player putting a team on his shoulders, as he used to.

So it depends if you want Nasiah the messiah or St Kilda the formidable unit regardless of which players are performing and which are cut out. Of course the easy answer is you want both, and most great teams have a few mercurial players or at least one.

I agree with Hird that Nas is very young to take on this role and is still working it out, he's not the finished product yet, and it's not like he went missing in either game, just wasn't as effective as his best.

I also agree with Lewis that more accountability would be a good thing, but if his teammates and coaches are happy removing that responsibility from him and they plan and play accordingly, then there's nothing more to say; it is clear from the first two games that this style needs some more fine tuning.

Lyon has always been a rules for the soldiers and the elites run their own show type. Your best few are the guys that change the trajectory of a match. The soldiers keep you in it.

 

[Saintbloke]

It didn’t feel like a loss so much as a moment that drifted slightly out of reach.

Melbourne, for all their name and noise, moved like a tired tide—uneven, uncertain, hardly the shape of something formidable. There was nothing overwhelming about them, nothing that suggested inevitability. And yet, the game slipped their way, like a coin landing on its edge and choosing them by accident.

But St Kilda weren’t overrun—they hovered. They stayed close enough to touch the outcome, close enough to feel its warmth. There’s something quietly powerful in that. To stand beside a result rather than be buried by it.

It was a game of almosts. Almost marks, almost moments, almost clarity. And “almost” is not emptiness—it’s a kind of promise. It means the structure is there, the intent is there, the shape of something real is forming just beneath the surface.

So you don’t walk away thinking Melbourne were better. You walk away thinking St Kilda are becoming.

Err.. I walked away thinking 0-2. I hope we don't miss out on finals by one game. Those two games were winnable, but Lyon fielded an unbalanced team and made tactical ****-ups after half time, which let both Dees and Woods get a slight advantage when things were close. Just not good enough.

 

[beside the seaside]

Err.. I walked away thinking 0-2. I hope we don't miss out on finals by one game. Those two games were winnable, but Lyon fielded an unbalanced team and made tactical ****-ups after half time, which let both Dees and Woods get a slight advantage when things were close. Just not good enough.

That post was looking at how you can get AI to make up wanky positive recaps for you.

If I really did a post like that I would punch myself in the face.

 

[akaifu]

i HAVE a lot of faith in O,CONNELL to hold down one HBF eventuallly

Have all my chips in him becoming the Webster replacement. Has all the tools to become a 150-gamer

 

[MordySaint]

Have all my chips in him becoming the Webster replacement. Has all the tools to become a 150-gamer

Shouldn't have let him go, who is our replacement? Carroll... good grief.

 

[DougalHoward]

Shouldn't have let him go, who is our replacement? Carroll... good grief.

He retired

 

[beside the seaside]

Shouldn't have let him go, who is our replacement? Carroll... good grief.

Who have Carroll's opponents been? Granted he hasn't provided a lot of run but not sure he has been as bad as many are making out.

 

[hayes]

Carroll has been fine IMO. Looks like he’s still building some confidence but to me there’s enough there to work with and once he gets comfortable he’ll show plenty.

 

[Mowman]

Shouldn't have let him go, who is our replacement? Carroll... good grief.

Hastie

 

[SG34]

Good post, not sure i quite see the same degree of positives as you and ultimately i think its really unhelpful to say "well we COULD be 2-0" cause were not but otherwise this is pretty measured.

With a week of reflection on Camma (who i openly love and see much more positively than others) I think we really have no choice to persist with him as the key defender.

Were clearly going to be a system defence but every system still needs a one out man on man FB and whilst Camma well and truly had his colors lowered as has been noted JVR had a blinder and ive actually thought for a few years hes looked capable of this, hes at the right age and is now playing in a team that moves the ball quick. His 6 goals i think all came from marks on the lead (i stand to be corrected) with Camma getting zero help and us leaving a paddock of space for leading lanes. Watching the game last night Dane Rampe a VERY good defender got absolutely smoked by Jack Gunston because of the same issue and it seems footy in 2026 is going to allow that to happen at times.

Camma is gonna get beaten but i still think in a good system defence where he has a singular role and we defend the ground better he is more than capable of being a solid citizen, Zac Dawson type and ultimately if its not gonna be him then its gotta be Howard (who is no better and is getting older) or were trading and paying big bucks for someone when we already have huge dollars tied up elsewhere.

This is where I am with Caminiti too. The guy is on a hiding to nothing really. I don’t think we have a choice. Put him there until someone comes ‘out of nowhere’ as a defender. I suspect Cooper Sharman could be a Shane or Darryl Wakelin type defender one day, but then who do we play forward? Marshall? Nope. Keeler? Doesn’t look close. We need to pinch someone from another club. (I heard buddy is coming out of retirement, but seriously, if there is someone approximately good who could gotten mid-season? Go for it) I also suspect Doogs must be slipping, otherwise he’s be an automatic choice ahead of Hammer. One thing with Hammer, he keeps on a punchin’ and there he was running into to spoil and never hanging his head, despite his oppo kicking a bag.

I think we are squarely in that mid-ladder tier if firing on all cylinders (I am not including King here, because, you know…) . That means we can compete and could pinch a few games against more highly fancied opponents. If we are misfiring, goodness knows how we could slump.

 

[karaoke]

I’m assuming the context in Nas ‘having a licence’ might be referring to his option to move out of a set role to shake the inevitable weekly run with player he encounters. Didn’t get the full context from Ross’ presser.

 

[maanco]

Can someone please send this to the coaching staff

 

[Ads734]

This is where I am with Caminiti too. The guy is on a hiding to nothing really. I don’t think we have a choice. Put him there until someone comes ‘out of nowhere’ as a defender. I suspect Cooper Sharman could be a Shane or Darryl Wakelin type defender one day, but then who do we play forward? Marshall? Nope. Keeler? Doesn’t look close. We need to pinch someone from another club. (I heard buddy is coming out of retirement, but seriously, if there is someone approximately good who could gotten mid-season? Go for it) I also suspect Doogs must be slipping, otherwise he’s be an automatic choice ahead of Hammer. One thing with Hammer, he keeps on a punchin’ and there he was running into to spoil and never hanging his head, despite his oppo kicking a bag.

I think we are squarely in that mid-ladder tier if firing on all cylinders (I am not including King here, because, you know…) . That means we can compete and could pinch a few games against more highly fancied opponents. If we are misfiring, goodness knows how we could slump.

to be fair I have a theory lots of good defenders start out being 'shit' before they eventually become good.

Alex Rance,
Alex Pierce
Eric Mckenzie