Same old same old

[pinkus maximus]

hahaah i never get sick of that pic

so mundy has been dropped. a good decision that has been a while coming

 

[Bradesmaen]

When he gets back next week, he'll be FFC's second best player.

 

[ImperialPurple]

There was a thread on this on DL. Roundhouse and I are attuned on this one. There's nowt pushing up from below. You could even go so far as to say its an indictment on the youngsters that none apart from Foster have sttod out even when there are places available for them if they really wanted them. If Ibbo was getting his hands dirty and topping Woewodin's possessions count he'd be in like that old Tasmanian Gay Boy.

Which is not to say IP is wrong. We are stuck with the same old same old and they're not getting the job done. I'm 60/40 we'll get done by the Kangaroos this weekend.

However, al least Mundy has been sent a message. After 2 straight seasons he's an emergency. Just on the 3.00 pm news. Last weekend I watched him ponce about like he was afraid to get wet, so I think Scotty Waters should be put him in the reserves. In fact, does anyone know whether the AFL women's championships is over. That's more his style.

No-one in the WAFL tops Woey's possession count, not sure that makes Ibbo a no-go candidate for an AFL call-up.

Is Mundy an emergency as in he's playing for Subi, or an emergency as in he's not playing WAFL and will likely be a "late change"?

Who else has been cut from the 25? MCarr? Parker? Gilmore?

 

[prattsta]

M.Carr, Schammer, Parker & Mundy have been dropped according to AFL.com

 

[ImperialPurple]

That's 4 from the 25? Now that would be something rather unconventional if we went in with only 21 players....

 

[Black Ball]

You can all prattle on and espouse theories as to why someone should be getting a game in preference to someone else but the fact of the matter is that we have the most over rated list in the AFL that is virtually devoid of any mental toughness. What's more if any of you think that by bringing in another coach the problem will be resolved you're kidding yourselves.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Nice of you to add some depth to the discussion.

Instead of bagging other people's opinions, how about you give yours??

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

No-one in the WAFL tops Woey's possession count, not sure that makes Ibbo a no-go candidate for an AFL call-up.

I'm just trying to say he's not yet AFL standard by quite a way. You were saying he's in East Freo's best players each week.

Are you sure that's a standard that menas he can impact the AFL? How many good players does East Freo have?

We all share your frustration. Mine is not with team selection. At the risk of being howled down I think outside of McPharlin and Sandilands, Hasleby needs to step up and be counted. He is supposed to be one of our top three players and his influence is minimal when it counts. I think he's racking up stats that don't hurt anyone on the scoreboard.

Compare Bell and Hase in terms of goals for example and you can see Belly is keeping us in games.

Josh Carr frustrates me cause his disposal has gone from poor to atrocious. Matty Carr frustrates me because he is completely ineffective with the ball in his hand. Sandliands frustrates me because we got flogged at the centre bounce and he isn't hurting anyone on the scoreboard. A guy like him should be good for a goal a game. he is more a goal a month.

I could go on but my point is its not the selection committee that frustrates me, it's the players.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

Nice of you to add some depth to the discussion.

Instead of bagging other people's opinions, how about you give yours??

But then he'd be a happpy yellow ball and have to change his sign on.

 

[ImperialPurple]

I know what you're saying ralphie, and I don't disagree. It is just frustrating the living bejesus out of me that no-one is trying to do something different. It's the same players doing the same stuff every week with the result being the same each time. We lose.

My point I guess, is that if they at least roll the dice a little and try a few guys out, pull a few selection surprises, let players know they are not guaranteed a game, try someone who will be desperate to play well to keep their spot, show a little faith in some of the younger players - then at least there is something being done to try and change the outcome....

Our team is comparatively old. They are slow. They are (as a generalisation) mentally and physically soft. Just do something different... And if that means it's at the selection table, so that players know they have to perform consistently to play the next week... then that's as good a place as any to start.

Mundy out is fair - make him earn it. Parker out is good - he's finished. MCarr out is good - pull your friggen finger out when you're over your "flu". Schammer out is somewhat confusing... Hase on the bench is sending a message of sorts... so at least there is something going on.

But really - Gilmore? C'mon we all know he's not an AFL player... give someone else a go to try and prove that they are. Walker..? Same old same old, I'm afraid....




And yes I agree. McPharlin is having his worst season ever. Sandi is a log. Josh Carr average. Hase has been poor in the last few weeks.

I just wish they'd all play with the heart and passion of Solly. Thank God we've got him - he plays for the jumper and for his team-mates and for his next game.

What was that I heard???? ..... culture, culture, culture.... Oh sorry - must have been the wind outside...

 

[jarman]

Had we picked up Swallow, CC would never have been given the opportunities to be in the deep end to see if he can swim.

 

[Clay Davis]

no-one's saying bring in ibbotson for pav.

people are thinking that you might bring in ibbo or foster in for mundy or schammer. or whoever. even hasleby. or bring in crowley for mcarr.

it seems to me that we have absolutely no depth. outside of our best 22, there is nothing.

 

[dugrene]

Last week would have taken heaps out of our guys. Hard in close wet muddy footy against a team who wears you down.

We need fresh legs.
2 of the guys who got dropped had been under the hammer for a while. The flu (Carr) might be just too convenient.
Parker should have announced his retirement after the Blues game, but I can understand him hanging in on the off chance we get up over the next few weeks.

Byron could be seen as unlucky but we'll see what gameday brings.

The included players are about our best proven back up players. Cook might be seen as unlucky but we'd have to sacrifice some pace and distance. They bring an even spread of size, pace and long kicks. Rolling the dice on untried players in a critical home would be insanity. Romantics would believe otherwise.
Each of the four inclusions is capable playing good footy. This we know.

Guess we'll find out come Sunday.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Ibbo for Pav - now there's some left-field thinking...

I don't think we have "no depth". A fair few of our regulation depth players are injured at the moment... Browne, Webster, Campbell, Duffield - then there's Peake and JLo who are out for the long haul.

I think it's more the case that they keep rolling out the same "depth players", instead of giving a few others a go. When you know exactly what you're going to get from a certain depth player, and you know that it's not really up to real AFL standard; then IMVHO it might be worth getting a few games into some of the youngsters. Games and mileage that will only hold you in good stead in future times. Good stead meaning you know that they either (i) have it and might be a player, or (ii) are crap like the other depth players and you move on.

You'll never find out what they can do if they're never given a shot...

 

[dugrene]

Ibbo for Pav - now there's some left-field thinking...

I don't think we have "no depth". A fair few of our regulation depth players are injured at the moment... Browne, Webster, Campbell, Duffield - then there's Peake and JLo who are out for the long haul.

I think it's more the case that they keep rolling out the same "depth players", instead of giving a few others a go. When you know exactly what you're going to get from a certain depth player, and you know that it's not really up to real AFL standard; then IMVHO it might be worth getting a few games into some of the youngsters. Games and mileage that will only hold you in good stead in future times. Good stead meaning you know that they either (i) have it and might be a player, or (ii) are crap like the other depth players and you move on.

You'll never find out what they can do if they're never given a shot...

I can smell an 'I told you so' cooking. Plenty of cooks on this site.

 

[ImperialPurple]

I can smell an 'I told you so' cooking. Plenty of cooks on this site.

Are you suggesting I am waiting for CC and / or the usual suspects to fail this weekend so I can say "I told you so"??????

If so, I would say you don't know me at all.

 

[Jetau]

I agree with the general gist of what you are saying, IP. My heart sank during trade week last year when we went after Tarrant. There's nothing worse than a club that think it's moving into 'premiership mode' (i.e. pursuing short term goals at the expense of long term development). I think we can all agree that Solly has been an unexpected bonus, but our recruitment policy at the end of last season similar to Adelaide's when they got Carey and Ronnie Burns. Needless to say, they never got past a prelim. Also Hawthorn in 2001, who made a prelim and then slid down the ladder.

Like it or not, we need to plan for the future. Therefore, players such as Walker, Parker, Cook, McManus and others need to be eased out. I mean this with the greatest possible respect (to Macca especially).

Then there's the likes of M. Carr and Gilmore. Really, where do we think we are going with these guys in the team?

To an extent IP, the match committee have actually ended up doing much of what you have suggested in your first post. Dropping Mundy is actually a good thing, just as a wake up call.

THE PROBLEM is that with all these outs, who do we bring in? OK we could bring in Ibbotson, Foster, Collard and let them get some match experience. This is exactly what cellar dweller teams do, whether the guys are ready or not. The bottom line is that we actually don't have the list of players to take us where we think we should be going. Ralph Dagg has hit on this in his post.

It's a shocking season, and next year may be better (think of how Geelong went in 2006 compared to 2007) but it's just another disappointment for the Freo faithful. I think the best thing to do would be cut Connolly now, give Harvey the last 7 weeks as caretaker coach, which would enable the board to see how he goes as coach.

Start planning for 2008 and beyond.

 

[Scham]

THE PROBLEM is that with all these outs, who do we bring in? OK we could bring in Ibbotson, Foster, Collard and let them get some match experience. This is exactly what cellar dweller teams do, whether the guys are ready or not. The bottom line is that we actually don't have the list of players to take us where we think we should be going. Ralph Dagg has hit on this in his post.

Port and Collingwood aren't exactly cellar dwellers, infact I think they might be doing a bit better than us aren't they?

 

[Jetau]

Yes Scham, they are both teams who did not enter the season with as high expectations as we did. Therefore they expected to play the kids regularly. And what happens? They start winning. There's not that much difference between success and failure, really. If we were 8-6 instead of 6-8, we would be talking about finals and the possibility of another prelim.

Things can turn around sooner than you might think. But I am thinking 2008, not a Lazarus-like performance for the rest of 2007.

 

[Scham]

Yes Scham, they are both teams who did not enter the season with as high expectations as we did. Therefore they expected to play the kids regularly. And what happens? They start winning. There's not that much difference between success and failure, really. If we were 8-6 instead of 6-8, we would be talking about finals and the possibility of another prelim.

Things can turn around sooner than you might think. But I am thinking 2008, not a Lazarus-like performance for the rest of 2007.

Well surely if you're thinking 2008, then Foster and Ibbo should be playing now? How can they improve if they're not given a go? A few people have said that Ibbo and Collard were given a go and they didn't look ready, well how many 18 and 19 yo's do look absolutely AFL ready in there debut game? Not many, but given a go they get better with each game. Would Ibbo and Collard have got better if they were given the opportunity to play 3 or 4 games or more? of course they would, or if they didn't then that's the time to make the judgment on their readiness, not after one game.

Foster has been burning in the WAFL all year, he's 22yo, and is what we need - a pacey inside midfielder with a good motor. What is the hold up? Get some games into these less experienced guys and have them cherry ripe for 2008, and at the same time it sends a strong message to the "golden boys" that there's pressure on their spot.

 

[dugrene]

Are you suggesting I am waiting for CC and / or the usual suspects to fail this weekend so I can say "I told you so"??????

If so, I would say you don't know me at all.

Not at all. We all know your passion and we all feel the same frustration but like it or not this thread is pretty close to Pontious Pilate revisted.
If we fail over the next few weeks al ot of people will be able to say they washed their hands about our selections.

I'm hoping our selections burn it up tomorrow. Because I'm cooking an 'I told you so'

 

[ImperialPurple]

Not at all. We all know your passion and we all feel the same frustration but like it or not this thread is pretty close to Pontious Pilate revisted.
If we fail over the next few weeks al ot of people will be able to say they washed their hands about our selections.

I'm hoping our selections burn it up tomorrow. Because I'm cooking an 'I told you so'

aahhh I see. I was doing the "glass half empty" routine, while for you it was half full.

I hope - for the sake of the footy club and our finals aspirations - that you're right with the half full galss.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

I know what you're saying ralphie, and I don't disagree. It is just frustrating the living bejesus out of me that no-one is trying to do something different. It's the same players doing the same stuff every week with the result being the same each time. We lose.

At the risk of increasing your frustration what you are proposing won't help. There is nothing different that can be dunn. Changing the fringe players won't make a difference. There is no cavalry that can rescue us.

The list management has been subject to criticism for years. You'd remember Dutchey complaining that we had a fleet of small, slow short people back in 2004.

This is one of my complaints about CC. It's his list, and except for a great patch last year, it hasn't been able to win its fair share of the ball or shut down another midfield since 2003. That patch had no Haselby and an in-form Peake. Coincidence?

We just have to get there tomorrow and yell our hearts out to get our little short, slow fellas over the line.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

Well surely if you're thinking 2008, then Foster and Ibbo should be playing now? How can they improve if they're not given a go? A few people have said that Ibbo and Collard were given a go and they didn't look ready, well how many 18 and 19 yo's do look absolutely AFL ready in there debut game? Not many, but given a go they get better with each game. Would Ibbo and Collard have got better if they were given the opportunity to play 3 or 4 games or more? of course they would, or if they didn't then that's the time to make the judgment on their readiness, not after one game.

You can think 2008 but for CC and the selection committee there might never be a 2008 unless they can pull off a miracle for 2007. Whatever we may think 2007 it theoretically alive for at least 2 or 3 more games and it is unrealistic to suggest the club should be looking past this season in match selection.

You can also theorise all you like about giving young players more games but its simplistic and a bit of a fantasy. Both Collard and Ibbo haven't been consistent over a WAFL season.

Foster has been burning in the WAFL all year, he's 22yo, and is what we need - a pacey inside midfielder with a good motor. What is the hold up? Get some games into these less experienced guys and have them cherry ripe for 2008, and at the same time it sends a strong message to the "golden boys" that there's pressure on their spot.

Sure lets play Collard and watch him contribute nothing, and then get smashed by Glenn Archer and we lose him for most of 2008.

Are you sure Foster is pacey? He's got a big engine and racks up the possies. But at this point he isn't weaving his way though packs and delivering lace out to the forwards. Have look at where East Freo is on the ladder for an assssment of what Ibbo and Foster are contributing.

 

[Black Ball]

Nice of you to add some depth to the discussion.

Instead of bagging other people's opinions, how about you give yours??

Who's opinion exactly did I bag?

I thought what I posted was self explanatory namely that we have the most over rated list in the AFL and until we weed out the non performers and mental soft ***** we aint going nowhere regardless of who the coach is.