Sauce bottle empty

[passengers]

I remember when this happened, thinking that we got a little bent over with this trade. But we were always going to when sauce wanted to leave, and was going to walk if we couldn't come to an agreement. Mcinness looks a player, but I am far from sold on paddy Mac. Speculation on who we could have/should have offloaded in terms of rucks is useless, because, in the end, sauce decided to go. It just sucks that now he is the best performed of the 4 we had, and is also pretty durable. I've given up hope of ever having a full compliment to pick from when it comes to the three we are left with for any significant period of time. I reckon we should try and shop around hammer/Warnock (preferably hammer, and fill other deficiencies in the list) and bring in another project ruckman.

 

[The Edukator]

Chances of the crows showing a littler good faith and willing to accept unders should Tippett request a trade?

 

[Faz 2000]

Chances of the crows showing a littler good faith and willing to accept unders should Tippett request a trade?

Zero. GC or Brisbane will pay more than we will, plus all the talk is he's leaving to go home, not just go "somewhere else".

 

[LordLucifer]

We got right royally reamed in the deal so we should of had the balls to tell Adelaide to stump up something to our liking or Jacobs will be taking his chances in the draft.

We were going to lose him anyway so it would of been better to go that way instead of bending over and telling them to be gentle like we did !!

 

[Jeremias]

We got right royally reamed in the deal so we should of had the balls to tell Adelaide to stump up something to our liking or Jacobs will be taking his chances in the draft.

We were going to lose him anyway so it would of been better to go that way instead of bending over and telling them to be gentle like we did !!

You'd rather get nothing for him, than McInnes and McCarthy?

That's logical.

We suspected Sauce would develop into an outstanding footballer at the Crows. Just be thankful that in return we drafted 2 young players who are going to be given every chance to be serious contributors over the next decade.

 

[LordLucifer]

We got reamed, accept it !!

When ruckman were at a premium, we got unders in return.

And don't bother trying to say that McInnes et al were a good deal, they were just draft numbers that can and do have the tendency to backfire on us.

We needed a decent player in return, not a couple of lottery tickets !!!

 

[HARKER]

We got reamed, accept it !!

When ruckman were at a premium, we got unders in return.

And don't bother trying to say that McInnes et al were a good deal, they were just draft numbers that can and do have the tendency to backfire on us.

We needed a decent player in return, not a couple of lottery tickets !!!

Old ground, Shiek.

A fair call at the time would have been a pick in the 20s and not a bona-fide first rounder.
Would that have though landed us Darling? Possibly.

 

[Jeremias]

We got reamed, accept it !!

When ruckman were at a premium, we got unders in return.

And don't bother trying to say that McInnes et al were a good deal, they were just draft numbers that can and do have the tendency to backfire on us.

We needed a decent player in return, not a couple of lottery tickets !!!

Oh right, I forgot you believe the sky is falling.

Carlton fans knew Jacobs would likely become an excellent player, but he hadn't shown near what he has as a Crow when he decided he wanted to go home.

We didn't get a draft pick as high as we may have hoped, but we ended up with two players who have what it takes to become very good long-term footballers for the Carlton Football Club.

If that's a reaming, then so be it.

Please go back to TalkingCarlton. And stay there.

 

[HARKER]

Oh right, I forgot you believe the sky is falling.

Please go back to TalkingCarlton. And stay there.

A bit harsh Jeremias and besides................Shiek is CSC and far from the most pessimistic Carlton poster.

 

[Jeremias]

A bit harsh Jeremias and besides................Shiek is CSC and far from the most pessimistic Carlton poster.

Whichever the forum, he has a history of being a tad hysterical and jumping the gun.

Our hands were tied with the Jacobs trade. Did we want a better pick? I'm sure we did - but one was never going to come and Jacobs likely would have walked had we not organized a trade.

In the end we received mid-range selections, and picked 2 very promising players. You have to make the best of a bad situation, and we were in exactly that. And getting 2 players who have both shown a fair amount of promise, including at senior level, is a pretty good result in the end - certainly far better than it could have been.

That's not what I call getting reamed. That's turning an unfortunate and uncomfortable situation into one which could well turn out to be a positive.

 

[HARKER]

Whichever the forum, he has a history of being a tad hysterical.

Our hands were tied with the Jacobs trade. Did we want a better pick? I'm sure we did - but one was never going to come and Jacobs likely would have walked had we not organized a trade.

That's not what I call getting reamed. That's turning an unfortunate and uncomfortable situation into one which could well turn out to be a positive.

No argument from me as we all know how that scenario played out.

We were all somewhat disappointed for not reeling in #14 I think it was, but the reality was that that was never going to happen.

The thing that annoys me most about any discussions re. Jacobs is that had have he still been at our club, we may have just been watching him with the Northern Blues this year.

McCarthy looked like a good get for the pick we received and I'll bet it will still turn out that way for us.

 

[Jeremias]

No argument from me as we all know how that scenario played out.

We were all somewhat disappointed for not reeling in #14 I think it was, but the reality was that that was never going to happen.

The thing that annoys me most about any discussions re. Jacobs is that had have he still been at our club, we may have just been watching him with the Northern Blues this year.

McCarthy looked like a good get for the pick we received and I'll bet it will still turn out that way for us.

Don't forget we also received a later selection, with which we selected McInnes.

Jacobs has developed into an absolute star, but as you say, had he stayed at Carlton he may still be nothing more than a bit-part player spending time in the reserves.

We wanted that first round pick, and rightly so. However we ended up with the picks that got us McCarthy and McInnes. That's a very good result in my book. No reason why it can't end up being a win/win trade for both Adelaide and Carlton.

 

[HARKER]

Don't forget we also received a later selection, with which we selected McInnes.

Jacobs has developed into an absolute star, but as you say, had he stayed at Carlton he may still be nothing more than a bit-part player spending time in the reserves.

We wanted that first round pick, and rightly so. However we ended up with the picks that got us McCarthy and McInnes. That's a very good result in my book. No reason why it can't end up being a win/win trade for both Adelaide and Carlton.

This is what I can't understand from some of our more vocal supporters:

Hawthorn lost Kennedy for similar reasons to how we lost Jacobs, yet by far and large they're pragmatic and understanding of the situation.
Geelong even lost Laidler for unders for the same reasons.
Why is it that some of us seem to lose our heads when we don't win by a country mile?

Jacobs is history and there is no guarantee that we won't be confronted by similar situations in the years to come.
We have a good list and players are going to want opportunity and we won't always get what we want. No team does.

 

[Monkey King]

We got right royally reamed in the deal so we should of had the balls to tell Adelaide to stump up something to our liking or Jacobs will be taking his chances in the draft.

It's a tough call, but as much as I like McInnes, we could have picked him up 3 selections later as Duigan would likely have still been around with our last pick. Realistically we only got Paddy from this trade and I think it would have been worth the risk of putting Jacobs into the PSD for that (like anyone expected Paddy to still be around at that point anyway). It was clear at the time the Crows were screwing us and we simply let them. I don't think Mick will allow this kind of outcome to happen once he takes the reigns and I'm glad for that.

 

[Monkey King]

Please go back to TalkingCarlton. And stay there.

Pull your head in. This is unwarranted.

 

[Monkey King]

Hawthorn lost Kennedy for similar reasons to how we lost Jacobs, yet by far and large they're pragmatic and understanding of the situation.
Geelong even lost Laidler for unders for the same reasons.

I think one difference is that Jacobs was already clearly worth more than what was offered and was deemed a genuinely required player. Whereas Laidler hadn't done much at senior level and Geelong were willing to trade, although wanting to keep. While Kennedy was much the same through lack of opportunity and the Hawks were more than willing to deal him out.

 

[Silvagnis]

Please go back to TalkingCarlton. And stay there.

Carlton Supporters Club, Jeremias, Carlton Supporters Club. #clappingemoticon

 

[Silvagnis]

It's a tough call, but as much as I like McInnes, we could have picked him up 3 selections later as Duigan would likely have still been around with our last pick. Realistically we only got Paddy from this trade and I think it would have been worth the risk of putting Jacobs into the PSD for that (like anyone expected Paddy to still be around at that point anyway). It was clear at the time the Crows were screwing us and we simply let them. I don't think Mick will allow this kind of outcome to happen once he takes the reigns and I'm glad for that.

How did we let Adelaide screw us?

Don't even bother playing the messiah card with Mick. Malthouse gave up pick 14 for Wood and pick three and Clinton King for Steve McKee. Malthouse refused to trade hard for Nick Stevens who went into the PSD. Yet he bought a 25 year old Luke Ball for pick 30.

It would have a been brain dead and an arrogant Ross Lyon type decision to not get something for Jacobs.

CSC is the main board for Carlton nuffies who think they know everything about recruiting and list management.

We got reamed, accept it !!

When ruckman were at a premium, we got unders in return.

And don't bother trying to say that McInnes et al were a good deal, they were just draft numbers that can and do have the tendency to backfire on us.

We needed a decent player in return, not a couple of lottery tickets !!!

What did Geelong get for Mumford and Adelaide get for Maric?

Crows were the only bidder with Sauce going home. We had no power.

I'd argue that Jacobs wasn't worth a top 20 pick.

The likes of Brodie Smith, Matthew Watson, Darling, Smith, Smedts, Guthrie, Cripps, Atley, etc. could easily be better than Sauce in their sixth season.

Love that so many people who get angry over recruiting and use the knowledge they've gain from sitting in armchairs.

 

[Monkey King]

How did we let Adelaide screw us?

Well, the club wanted more and knew the Crows were offering unders. Personally I consider it to have been a poor negotiation to have ended up with what we did.

Don't even bother playing the messiah card with Mick.

I'm not playing the "messiah" card. I'm just confident he wouldn't have allowed that trade to go ahead and considering I'm on the same page, I'd be happy for that to be the case. Meanwhile your examples are trade-ins, not players looking to leave.

It was obvious by trade time that Jacobs was going to be a quality ruckman - albeit not as good as he's been this year - having already put in a number of top performances. You can pluck out players taken in the 20's and theorize about the unknown, but Jacobs had exposed form. I just reckon they should have pushed harder for what they wanted.

 

[Jeremias]

What is this rubbish that it wouldn't have happened under Mick?

I've read a lot of stupid things in my time on this forum, but that just about takes the cake.

So people are now blaming Ratten for Jacobs wanting to be closer to his family?

What's next - Ratten to be blamed for the Global Financial Crisis?

Dare I mention that Collingwood traded pick 14 for Cameron Wood when Mick was head coach?

 

[Monkey King]

What is this rubbish that it wouldn't have happened under Mick?

I've read a lot of stupid things in my time on this forum, but that just about takes the cake.

Say what you will, I stand by the comment; and funnily enough, Mick's history backs me up. You can take your feigned outrage and stick it on the shelf next to the cake you're waffling on about. I'm not interested.

So people are now blaming Ratten for Jacobs wanting to be closer to his family?

Not blaming Ratten for anything. But let's not make shit up! Jacobs left due to his pecking order among the club's rucks; his destination, while obvious, was secondary. Now if I'm going to blame people, it would be those involved in the negotiations in equal share of their participation. It was a shambles. Carlton wanted more, made it known they wanted more and in the end folded like a deck of cards. From the outside it looked totally amateur. If it was a company I had my money in, I wouldn't be happy with such poorly negotiated deals, so why the hell should I change my view for the footy club?

Dare I mention that Collingwood traded pick 14 for Cameron Wood when Mick was head coach?

Again. You're talking about in-traded players here and that's simply not the same kettle of fish as letting one of your own walk out the door. Both scenario's would throw up differing levels of coaches involvement, with the existing player carrying the weight. I get you're trying to mount an argument, but that barely even registers.

 

[LordLucifer]

Don't forget we also received a later selection, with which we selected McInnes.

Jacobs has developed into an absolute star, but as you say, had he stayed at Carlton he may still be nothing more than a bit-part player spending time in the reserves.

We wanted that first round pick, and rightly so. However we ended up with the picks that got us McCarthy and McInnes. That's a very good result in my book. No reason why it can't end up being a win/win trade for both Adelaide and Carlton.

No we didn't get McInnes with the pick, we got Mitchell !!!

If you don't understand the rationale behind calling the Crows bluff then I am not going to explain it for you.

Jacobs just played in a final for us as first-ruck and the Crows were screaming out for a readymade first-ruck and should of paid more than they did to get one.

 

[TNBT]

I can't believe some of the stupidity that is being shown in this thread. Certain people whinging that "we should have got more in that trade!' and bullshit like that is getting tiring. For that few who are obviously too thick to understand things, let me try and sum up the situation for you:

- Jacobs wanted out.

- He wanted to go to the Crows.

- There were no other bidders, and he was going to enter the draft if we didn't trade him, so we had ZERO LEVERAGE.

- Of course we wanted more, but as I said, we had no leverage in this situation. You can whine all you like about how we should have gotten more, but it's just bullshit. Essentially it came down to either taking what we could get from the Crows or losing him for nothing in the draft. Given how much certain posters are whinging about what we got in return for him, I hate to think of how much they'd be complaining had we let him go for nothing in the draft and he had developed like he has this year.

 

[MightyBlue]

I sat with Sammy's folks at a preseason game against Port one year at footy park whilst he was still a rookie (may have been his first match). They were lovely people, but even then they made it pretty clear that they wanted him back in SA. Although I suppose any parent would want their kid closer to home.

 

[JustaBattler]

If someone thinks they have leverage - the first thing you do is remove it. How? In Jacobs case - just inform him that if he wishes to leave Carlton on terms not appealing to Carlton - then he can chance his luck in the draft. Standing up for principle - pays dividends over the long term.

Adelaide or anyone else can GOGF if they think they can dictate terms.

The handling of Jacobs and the missing of Saad were the two worst avoidable errors made last year- both cost us dearly- fact.