Scott Welsh leaving

[Freddy Bassett]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I dont think you can blame Scotty for trying to make the most of his final years in football. If he can get a guaranteed 2 year deal with an extra $100,000 over those two years as has been thrown around, why wouldnt you go? At Adelaide he isnt even a definate for 2 years. So lets say hypothetically at Adelaide he can get $140000 or at Melbourne he can get $180000 and two secured years. Its either $360000 in the hand to make the move or a guaranteed $140000 at Adelaide? If he didnt go he would be a goose. As for the peole saying we have been loyal to him through injuries that is bullshit! Its big business now and look at the loyalty we showed a club legend like Benny Hart who never got in the shit once and was a much better player than Scotty. If we were so loyal too him, why have we been offering him only performance based contracts? No job security at all, a bit like a Howard Liberal work place agreement! Like Hudson, Welsh will go and you cant really blame either. The club has a policy and has stuck too it and been strong and for that they should also be commended. But if you were an opposition club wouldnt you look at Adelaides approaching 30 year olds every year and see whats around, offer some job security and the deal is almost done. Adelaide is a great club but I think we need to look at this policy and have a good think about it. Not sure how the job insecurity would impact on the players either, young or old. No wonder why Mattner was so keen to move on and I bet there is other guys over 25 thinking is it a good idea to go for the sake of security in the future or stay around and be offered a 1 year deal. Just remember AFL players are one injury from never playing again and need to maximise earnings for there future as not every player has numerous pubs...

 

[macca23]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I dont think you can blame Scotty for trying to make the most of his final years in football. If he can get a guaranteed 2 year deal with an extra $100,000 over those two years as has been thrown around, why wouldnt you go? At Adelaide he isnt even a definate for 2 years. So lets say hypothetically at Adelaide he can get $140000 or at Melbourne he can get $180000 and two secured years. Its either $360000 in the hand to make the move or a guaranteed $140000 at Adelaide? If he didnt go he would be a goose. As for the peole saying we have been loyal to him through injuries that is bullshit! Its big business now and look at the loyalty we showed a club legend like Benny Hart who never got in the shit once and was a much better player than Scotty. If we were so loyal too him, why have we been offering him only performance based contracts? No job security at all, a bit like a Howard Liberal work place agreement! Like Hudson, Welsh will go and you cant really blame either. The club has a policy and has stuck too it and been strong and for that they should also be commended. But if you were an opposition club wouldnt you look at Adelaides approaching 30 year olds every year and see whats around, offer some job security and the deal is almost done. Adelaide is a great club but I think we need to look at this policy and have a good think about it. Not sure how the job insecurity would impact on the players either, young or old. No wonder why Mattner was so keen to move on and I bet there is other guys over 25 thinking is it a good idea to go for the sake of security in the future or stay around and be offered a 1 year deal. Just remember AFL players are one injury from never playing again and need to maximise earnings for there future as not every player has numerous pubs...

Great post there FB.

By sticking rigidly to the approaching 30 1 year contract rule, Adelaide will go through this process of players departing in the PSD for fk-all time after time in the future.

 

[Malibu#27]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I find it strange that Welsh would be interested in going back to Melbourne when he cited wanting to come home as a reason why we got him here in the first place (I know there were extenuating circumstances) but still strange!

I didn't think he came home because he was homesick, but because there was a death/illness in his family/close friends, and the Kangaroos released him on compassionate grounds ..... many years down the track theres a fair chance this is no longer an issue.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I didn't think he came home because he was homesick, but because there was a death/illness in his family/close friends, and the Kangaroos released him on compassionate grounds ..... many years down the track theres a fair chance this is no longer an issue.

 

[Cap]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Great post there FB.

By sticking rigidly to the approaching 30 1 year contract rule, Adelaide will go through this process of players departing in the PSD for fk-all time after time in the future.

Doubt ful, the good players will stick around, the so-so's will go in search of better money.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Doubt ful, the good players will stick around, the so-so's will go in search of better money.

I rated Benny Hart as a player. If he can get flicked anyone but a Roo or Macca could. How many Maccas and Roos are there?

 

[BlackDouglas]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Great post there FB.

By sticking rigidly to the approaching 30 1 year contract rule, Adelaide will go through this process of players departing in the PSD for fk-all time after time in the future.

Is this ‘one year policy’ set in stone for ever and a day?

Or will it be looked at once the average age of the side had decreased. Over the last 2 year we have slowly repositioned the list so we are not so top heavy in 28 + age bracket. As soon as the majority of the side is in the 20 – 24 age bracket and we have better balance hopefully the club revisits this policy.

But saying that I don’t think this policy is anything to worry with respect to the long term future. I don’t believe this (the part in bold) will be a major issue if players actually play the game. The club will look after the player with the appropriate financial security it deems fit for the situation. It would be irresponsible towards the future of this football club to give into players demands for long term contract if they have not earned them. I have no problem losing Ben Hudson, Scott Welsh or anyone else if they have had major injuries troubles in the past. 2 year for Ben Hudson was justifiable and the one year contract for Scott Welsh is justifiable. The AFC have been able to justify what they have done and what sort of financial security they have offered to the players that have left.

Marty Mattner left because of internal troubles with the coach and his playing direction, nothing to do with money or length of a contract.

Ben Hudson allegedly left for financial reason; had he not damaged his knee 2 years ago I believe that he would have been offered that 3 year contract he was looking for. Saying that I don’t believe he left the AFC for that exact reason anyway.

Scott Welsh is only being offered one year deals because the club is obviously not confident in his body standing up year after year. If a Victorian club want to gamble and offer his a 2 year deal, good luck to them.

IMO key players who are heading towards the 28+ age bracket will have nothing to worry about if they have regularly playing AFL games. Scott Welsh has not regularly played 22 AFL games in one season for a few years so the club can justify only offering him a one year deal

Now if we lost someone like Ben Rutten, Andrew McLeod, Scott Thompson, Nathan van Berlo or a Nathan Bock because the club was penny pinching and not willing to offer them a long term deal; questioning this policy may have some merit towards the long term future.

IMO – not a problem.

 

[BlackDouglas]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I rated Benny Hart as a player. If he can get flicked anyone but a Roo or Macca could. How many Maccas and Roos are there?

That’s not entirely true – if Benny Hart played games on a regular basis and his body was standing up to the rigorous of AFL his departure could be quested but he didn’t.

2004 and 2005 he only played a handful of games and the second half of 2006 his body wasn’t in the best shape. Looking towards the long term future not offering Ben Hart a contract has been justified.

 

[Crowked]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I dont think you can blame Scotty for trying to make the most of his final years in football. If he can get a guaranteed 2 year deal with an extra $100,000 over those two years as has been thrown around, why wouldnt you go? At Adelaide he isnt even a definate for 2 years. So lets say hypothetically at Adelaide he can get $140000 or at Melbourne he can get $180000 and two secured years. Its either $360000 in the hand to make the move or a guaranteed $140000 at Adelaide? If he didnt go he would be a goose. As for the peole saying we have been loyal to him through injuries that is bullshit! Its big business now and look at the loyalty we showed a club legend like Benny Hart who never got in the shit once and was a much better player than Scotty. If we were so loyal too him, why have we been offering him only performance based contracts? No job security at all, a bit like a Howard Liberal work place agreement! Like Hudson, Welsh will go and you cant really blame either. The club has a policy and has stuck too it and been strong and for that they should also be commended. But if you were an opposition club wouldnt you look at Adelaides approaching 30 year olds every year and see whats around, offer some job security and the deal is almost done. Adelaide is a great club but I think we need to look at this policy and have a good think about it. Not sure how the job insecurity would impact on the players either, young or old. No wonder why Mattner was so keen to move on and I bet there is other guys over 25 thinking is it a good idea to go for the sake of security in the future or stay around and be offered a 1 year deal. Just remember AFL players are one injury from never playing again and need to maximise earnings for there future as not every player has numerous pubs...

Good post mate. Makes perfect sense. The more I think about this blanket policy the more stupid it seems. How the hell are we going to retain anyone when they pass 28. There will come a day when a superstar will leave us because of it, or we will be forced to break the rule to retain them, and then another other player/s will be pissed and leave.

 

[conVINCEd]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

That’s not entirely true – if Benny Hart played games on a regular basis and his body was standing up to the rigorous of AFL his departure could be quested but he didn’t.

2004 and 2005 he only played a handful of games and the second half of 2006 his body wasn’t in the best shape. Looking towards the long term future not offering Ben Hart a contract has been justified.

I'm pretty sure Hart played every game in 2005, and a broken arm in 2006 isnt' exactly the sign of an ageing player.

 

[Crowked]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

That’s not entirely true – if Benny Hart played games on a regular basis and his body was standing up to the rigorous of AFL his departure could be quested but he didn’t.

2004 and 2005 he only played a handful of games and the second half of 2006 his body wasn’t in the best shape. Looking towards the long term future not offering Ben Hart a contract has been justified.

2005 he played 22 games.

2004 was a bad one with injury (only 6 games), and 2007 he played 13. Your point has some merit, but on the way he was treated, anyone over 30 who doesnt play every game is at risk of being flicked.

We will be targeted by other clubs because of our stance on older players. No doubt about it.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Doubt ful, the good players will stick around, the so-so's will go in search of better money.

Correction, club great will stick around. Players a rank under that will look elsewhere to secure their future. I have thought about this policy a bit harder for a couple of days now and its pretty much a discimination against lesser talented players who get to 30 or are approaching 30.

Players like McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Ricciuto, Hart et al... those sort of players will stick around on one year deals. They are the club greats and the club will look after them with a 1 year deals that would consist of a pretty big sum of money. Say a McLeod would be worth $500K per year on a 2 year deal. Adelaide will offer him $600K one year deal which he will sign and if he plays well, there would be good chances he would get another one year deal after that.

However, take good players like Hudson, Torney and Welsh (who we all know you don't rate) and these players are not club greats but would be in the best 22 for many, if not all clubs out there. There guys won't get the same treatment as McLeod, Ricciuto and other club greats. They know that they are expendable regardless of their form.

Torney had a VERY VERY good season. Arguably his best for the club yet was delisted at the end of the year. After seeing that, why would any good player sign on for a 1 year performance based contract with us when they can get a better long term deal somewhere else?!

Its common sense. I suspect this rule we have in place now will be out the window very qucikly if Welsh decides to walk. The only reason it was introduced in the first place is because the age profile of our list at the time was disasterous. Now its cleaned up a bit and will continue to do so in the next couple of years.

If I was Scott Welsh, and having seen how the club has handled older players in the last couple of years, I would be going over to Melbourne no second thoughts. He has his future to think about. He has a young family and as a sportsman you have a limited period where you are to make the most of it as far as earnings are concerned. Welshy is well aware that as soon as he hits 30, there won't be a contract at the AFC for him. He also knows that if he goes to another club there would be at least another 1-2 years left in him after he hits 30.

I am pretty sure you would do the same thing if confronted with the same situation.

 

[BlackDouglas]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I'm pretty sure Hart played every game in 2005, and a broken arm in 2006 isnt' exactly the sign of an ageing player.

Continually doing his hamstring is and in 2007 with North Adelaide he didn’t get out on the park that often because of tight or ruptured hamstring injuries.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

That’s not entirely true – if Benny Hart played games on a regular basis and his body was standing up to the rigorous of AFL his departure could be quested but he didn’t.

2004 and 2005 he only played a handful of games and the second half of 2006 his body wasn’t in the best shape. Looking towards the long term future not offering Ben Hart a contract has been justified.

Hart played 22 games in 2005 and had a broken arm in 2006. Hardly a soft tissue injury associated with aging players.

Torney was cut after arguably a career best season. If I was a player in that area of quality and that age group, I would be looking elsewhere as well.

 

[BlackDouglas]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

2005 he played 22 games.

2004 was a bad one with injury (only 6 games), and 2007 he played 13. Your point has some merit, but on the way he was treated, anyone over 30 who doesnt play every game is at risk of being flicked.

We will be targeted by other clubs because of our stance on older players. No doubt about it.

Possibly it could have been done better but 2 years ago the crows list was getting very old and changes needed to be made. Unfortunately for Ben Hart he didn’t make the cut.

In 3, 4 or 5 year’s time when we only have 2 or 3 players in this age bracket (rather than 12 or 13) we may be able to carry this player for longer rather than off loading him.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Heres a hypothetical. If Brendon Lade was on our list rather than Ports, would of we kept him? Being over 30, had a terrible run of injuries in the past, he was offered a 3 year contract with Carlton for next year. Port without the rigid Crows policy kept him at there club. I dont think we would of. Nathan Bassett lets say didnt ruin his ankle this year, and made All-Australian again. Lets say a club that needs a tall defender, say Hawthorn or Carlton offered him a 3 year million dollar contract. We would of lost him for sure.. We cant just think that if they are a Goody, Macca or Roo we will keep them and if they arent they can go cause they arent that good anyway.

 

[BlackDouglas]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Hart played 22 games in 2005 and had a broken arm in 2006. Hardly a soft tissue injury associated with aging players.

Torney was cut after arguably a career best season. If I was a player in that area of quality and that age group, I would be looking elsewhere as well.

Why didn’t any other club pick Ben Hart up then?

And not a lot of interest is being shown in Jason Torney from other AFL clubs.

 

[sugar]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Dont mean to be a pest, but was it the Melbourne Football Club they said on the news? I have a contact there and will check it out.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Why didn’t any other club pick Ben Hart up then?

And not a lot of interest is being shown in Jason Torney from other AFL clubs.

Clubs are reluctant to recruit 30 year olds. However, the only club reluctant keeping their 30 year olds on the list is Adelaide. If Torney was a listed player with some other club, I am pretty sure he would be in PS training right about now.

The policy is a hogwash and it discriminates against good players of certain age. Freddy Bassett makes a great point RE: Lade. IF it was us, I very much doubt we would have offered him more than a 1 year contract.

The policy in place only works for the bona fide superstars of the club. Other than Bunji and Roo, there really isn't much more left.

Hart was a 34 year old and I thought its the right decision but no one can convince me that Torney didn't have 1-2 good years left in him. Nor that Hudson doesn't have 3 good years of football left in him. Especially considering that he started playing AFL late AND ruckman play some of their best football in the early 30s.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Dont mean to be a pest, but was it the Melbourne Football Club they said on the news? I have a contact there and will check it out.

Not sure bout the news, but its the club being thrown around

 

[BlackDouglas]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Hart was a 34 year old and I thought its the right decision but no one can convince me that Torney didn't have 1-2 good years left in him. Nor that Hudson doesn't have 3 good years of football left in him. Especially considering that he started playing AFL late AND ruckman play some of their best football in the early 30s.

Possible but tough decisions have to be made for clubs to move forward. Unlucky for Jason Torney but if GA and NC implemented better list management skills he may have been kept around.

Are you 100% confident that was the reason Ben Hudson left the crows? I am not so he doesn’t fit this category.

 

[Gets!]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

See ya scott.

 

[Bartman]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Heres a hypothetical. If Brendon Lade was on our list rather than Ports, would of we kept him? Being over 30, had a terrible run of injuries in the past, he was offered a 3 year contract with Carlton for next year. Port without the rigid Crows policy kept him at there club. I dont think we would of. Nathan Bassett lets say didnt ruin his ankle this year, and made All-Australian again. Lets say a club that needs a tall defender, say Hawthorn or Carlton offered him a 3 year million dollar contract. We would of lost him for sure.. We cant just think that if they are a Goody, Macca or Roo we will keep them and if they arent they can go cause they arent that good anyway.

Wasn't Lade only given a two year deal at Port?
Might have been a different outcome if Lade was from Melbourne.
As far as Welsh goes, he's been a good player for us, when he gets on the park, but has never strung two relatively injury free years together. If Melbourne are willing to give him a two year deal good luck to them and him. They could probably look at Lance Whitnall as well.
I would like to see Scott stay at the Crows as he is one of the few guys we have that can convert accurately on a regular basis, but for the future we need a forward line that can actually get on the field and play at a consistent level.

 

[Asgardian]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

IMO key players who are heading towards the 28+ age bracket will have nothing to worry about if they have regularly playing AFL games.

Torney was a regular playing good footy, so the above comment doesn't hold true.

 

[Bartman]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Torney was a regular playing good footy, so the above comment doesn't hold true.

Brett Montgomery anyone.