Scott Welsh

[TheLeftFist8]

In Defence of Scott Welsh

In reviewing previous threads regarding possible best line-ups for the finals, the one player who has been cast aside too early by some fans IMO is Scotty Welsh.

I realise the squeeze is well and truly on for positions but assuming (and its a huge assumption i know) that Scotty is 100% fit with good leg speed, i reckon he is a must for the following reasons:

He is a proven goalkicker, winning the Crows leading goalkicker 3 times. Not any old hack can boot 58 goals in a season (2005), inc 8 in one game, often against the best opposition defender, with (as recognised by our own coaches) poor delivery from the midfield.

He adds versatility to our forward structure being able to play tall/small, KP/flanks, unlike Sarge, Bode or Porps (his likely competition for spots), and would be a great cover for Roo from the goalsquare when he has a stint in the middle. With Roo, Kenny, Bird, Trent and a small (?Thompson) up forward, imagine the damage Welsh would do on their 5th best defender

He is a premiership player and his experience, footy brain, aggression, defensive pressure (when fit), accurate finishing and presence in the forward line compares well with his competition.

Craigy has been quoted as saying Welsh is in best 22.

For all these reasons i reckon Welsh must be selected ahead of the unlucky Bode, Porplyzia and Perrie, initially filling a lead-up flankers role in the interest of team balance, with the option of returning to FF if required through form, injury or rotations of other players. This option is vital when you consider the gaping hole left by Hentschel's injury against the Hawks combined with Roo's poor form that day (luckily Burton kicked a career high 7 but we cannot rely on that come finals time). I realise Welsh on a flank may appear top-heavy but he along with Roo, Burton, Thompson can all play 'small' (yet require good sized defenders), along with Trent who is arguably better once the ball hits the ground also.

So i reckon our starting forward line in my preferred team should be:

B: Bassett, Rutten, Hart
HB: Johncock, Bock, McLeod
C: Doughty, Goodwin, Mattner
HF: Burton, McGregor, Welsh
F: Thompson, Ricciuto, Hentschel
1R: Biglands, Edwards, Shirley
Int: Clarke, Reilly, Massie, van Berlo

Emerg: Hudson, Torney, Bode
Next in Line: Porplyzia, Stevens, Perrie, Douglas

 

[GoSarge]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

When he gets fit and plays 1 or 2 SANFL games we'll see how he goes. Until then, he's out of consideration.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

I agree with Welsh's history with injury he needs to prove himself in the SANFL for another week but, unless i am mistaken he has already played 2 games, including a 10 kick, 9 mark, 3.3 goal return in the bottom ranked side in an 80+ point loss. Dont get me wrong, i love Sarge, Bodey and Porps but IMO a fit Scott Welsh is clearly our best option who should be well and truly under consideration.

 

[tribey]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

You make some good points, but I think the issue with Welsh is that as an out-and-out full forward it might be risky to change what has been a fantastic structure for us to date.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That's not to say Welshy should be frozen out altogether, but I reckon it would take an injury plague for him to come back and retake his place a la '05.

 

[Eggzoi]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

Dyertribe, i agree that Roo should remain our first choice FF. My contention is that Welsh is not simply an out and out FF and could actually be our best option as a starting HFF without affecting our current structure.

His secondary role would be as back-up FF if Roo has a burst in the middle (especially as i reckon the Crows achilles heel in finals could be centre clearances and Roo may be needed in there to redress the balance if opposition get a run on).

So while Bode and Porps can play HFF, they are not FF's. Likewise, Sarge could play a key position but as a tall flanker he would make the forward line top-heavy ala 2005.

So what i am saying is: Welsh >>> Perrie, Bode, Porplyzia.

 

[Sanguinarius]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

Welsh is predominantly a leading forward as he is quick off the mark and has good hands. While making him a servicable FF, I dont think he's a good fit as a HFF.

For me Perrie is a much harder worker, and while he doesnt have as many killer matches as Welsh, he is always there trying even on a bad day.

Welsh may be able to take Bode's spot as he has a couple more plusses than bode, but I'd take Sarge over Welsh seeing as we have roo in Welsh's position.

If Roo has a stint in the center then we have other options like Rowdy, KMac, Perrie or even Birdman as FF.

 

[Vader]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

For me, the difference is not in their ability to take marks - both Perrie & Welsh are miles ahead of Bode/Porps in that regard. It is what they do when the ball hits the ground.

Last year the ball got cleared from our forward line far too easily because we had nobody capable of contesting at ground level. We were far too top heavy.

What Bode & Porps offer is the ability to contest the crumbs. It is something which Welsh & Perrie do not and cannot offer.

Welsh is a better player than Bode & Porps, no argument there. However, with Roo taking his place at FF, Welsh no longer fits into our forward line structure.

That's my opinion anyway.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

Welsh is predominantly a leading forward as he is quick off the mark and has good hands. While making him a servicable FF, I dont think he's a good fit as a HFF.

For me Perrie is a much harder worker, and while he doesnt have as many killer matches as Welsh, he is always there trying even on a bad day.

Welsh may be able to take Bode's spot as he has a couple more plusses than bode, but I'd take Sarge over Welsh seeing as we have roo in Welsh's position.

If Roo has a stint in the center then we have other options like Rowdy, KMac, Perrie or even Birdman as FF.

Yep, cannot fault the endeavour of Sarge, he has a terrific and consistent workrate, but there is no way Sarge can replace Bode as the forward line would certainly be too top heavy. Would love Sarge to force his way back in but if Roo is to remain up forward his only chance IMO is to replace Kenny at CHF (even though he plays that possie slightly differently as he strays a bit further up the wings than Ken).

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

For me, the difference is not in their ability to take marks - both Perrie & Welsh are miles ahead of Bode/Porps in that regard. It is what they do when the ball hits the ground.

Last year the ball got cleared from our forward line far too easily because we had nobody capable of contesting at ground level. We were far too top heavy.

What Bode & Porps offer is the ability to contest the crumbs. It is something which Welsh & Perrie do not and cannot offer.

Welsh is a better player than Bode & Porps, no argument there. However, with Roo taking his place at FF, Welsh no longer fits into our forward line structure.

That's my opinion anyway.

Yes i totally agree we were too top heavy last year and i reckon you have hit upon they key point in this debate: Can Scott Welsh compete hard at ground level and provide the tenacious defensive work that Bode certainly does brilliantly (because it seems we agree the attacking side of his game is better?).

You believe he cannot offer this aspect to his game. I do. The problem is we have witnessed 2 different Scott Welsh's in his time at the Crows...at times he has appeared lazy, disinterested, moody and unwilling to put in the defensive efforts required while the other Scott Welsh has shown an ability to chase hard, harrass, tackle, and force turnovers in our forward line (like Bode does).

I reckon Scotty would be champing at the bit to get back in for finals so motivation wont be an issue. IMO it comes down to the big IF i mentioned at the start of this thread. Can he regain full fitness and the leg speed he will need to consistently provide the defensive aspect required If so, BRING BACK WELSH . If not, leave him out because we cannot afford the ball to be cleared too easily as you rightly mention. Time will tell.

 

[beartoo]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

I doubt that Bode will be missing from this side again this year unless injured. His work off the ball is fantastic, and on the ball ain't too bad either. He smother, tackles, harasses, shepherds and supports team mates better than any play in the Crows lineup. His work-rate will keep him in our forward line.
I'm not knocking Welsh or Sarge either.
Who'd be a selector?

 

[lunacy]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

I love your thread TheLeftFist8, I like your analysis. Facts rather than just inaccurate, unresearched crap.

It seems we all agree that our forward line is too top heavy with Hentschel, McGregor, Perrie and Ricciuto. I would argue that we are not too top heavy with Hentschel, McGregor, Ricciuto, Burton and Welsh. All play exceptionally well (regardless of size) at ground level.

I think too many of us have been closed minded for too long. We have somehow fixed our thoughts on Welsh ONLY being a FF. I suggest he has been played out of position over the years against the opposition's best defender who's is generally much bigger, with poor delivery from the midfield. In recent years Welsh has been expected to take contested pack marks whilst the ball has just been bombed into the goal square. It was only due to his natural ability, strength, and footy smarts that rewarded him and the club with such good results. Obviously the crows are more systematic now and deliver the ball to the forwards much better.

I think it is an insult to Welsh to suggest he is only one dimensional and has no place in our forward line. The original thread says that Welsh is versatile. He can play KP (well) but also small (just as well). Why does everyone think Bode is better than Welsh at this role. Is it because Bode is 178cm tall? That thinking may have applied in the 70's and 80's. But these days height has no bearing. Twenty years ago we wouldn't have seen a player of Riewoldt's size playing on the wing, or Chad Cornes and Jonathon Brown playing in the midfield.

Welsh is only 1cm taller than Bernie Vince! Anyone would think Welsh is 194cm the way some people are talking? I like bode don't get me wrong, but Welsh is no slower than Bode, can tackle just as well maybe even better given the bigger body, has much better skills (kicks well either foot), more accurate shot on goal, has just as much footy smarts as Bode, and reads the ball just as well as Bode. Therefore I think Welsh can play the same role as Bode just as well, if not better.

On top of all this, Welsh can provide another option if we need him too. Or if he happens to find himself in a one on one contest, I'll back him more times than not to either mark the ball or out muscle and out think his opponent at ground level.

If Bode is having an average-bad game (ie vs Sydney and Geelong), he doesn't offer many other options. He doesn't really play in the midfield any more. He is arguably too small for a midfield role given the modern game. Where as if Welsh was to have an average game playing as a small forward, a rotating midfielder could play that role while Welsh perhaps plays as a taller option or when Riccuito goes in the midfield.

I agree whole heartedly with the original thread. Burton, Welsh and Riccuito would be so hard to match up on. The best tall defender would probably take Kenny, the 2nd best tall would take Hentschel, then next best defender would take the Roo. That still leaves Welsh and Burton who would probably play against small players. The defence would be stretched. Burton and/or Welsh would both be capable of kicking 5 goals. If the opposition changed the match ups to stop Burton or Welsh, Roo would step up. Welsh so good and so versatile.... has to play!!!

To say it aint broken don't fix it is just ridiculous and just asking ti be beaten. The fact is if more players are now available you consider them and pick them if good enough. Neil Craig certainly doesn't subscribe to that mediocre philosophy thank God.

 

[The Crows Truth]

Re: In Defence of Scott Welsh

Welsh is only 1cm taller than Bernie Vince! Anyone would think Welsh is 194cm the way some people are talking? I like bode don't get me wrong, but Welsh is no slower than Bode, can tackle just as well maybe even better given the bigger body, has much better skills (kicks well either foot), more accurate shot on goal, has just as much footy smarts as Bode, and reads the ball just as well as Bode. Therefore I think Welsh can play the same role as .

mate great post many convincing points. the only thing i need to pull you up on is bodes reading/crumbing. He is teams best imo - certainly better than welsh

you aint as deluded as your name suggests

 

[Crowman32]

Scotty welsh kicked 6 goals against the eagles today and was one of their best players. Its time for Welshy to come back into our side against Collingwood.

 

[birdmanptr]

Scotty welsh kicked 6 goals against the eagles today and was one of their best players. Its time for Welshy to come back into our side against Collingwood.

Spot on

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Scotty welsh kicked 6 goals against the eagles today and was one of their best players. Its time for Welshy to come back into our side against Collingwood.

This is what i said last week! YES, Scott Welsh is a must. While our midfield has been atrocious today (the primary reason for this loss), and the few times its gone forward the delivery has been poor, that's no excuse for the impotent forward line. Yes, i know its just one game...but so is the GF! We need the option of Welsh!

 

[Alex99]

Scotty welsh kicked 6 goals against the eagles today and was one of their best players. Its time for Welshy to come back into our side against Collingwood.

Who comes out from the side today? And does Mark Ricciuto go into the midfield?

 

[jo172]

Who comes out from the side today? And does Mark Ricciuto go into the midfield?

Bode, Porplyzia, Doughty. Massie would all be watching their backs after pathetic performances.

 

[jmorg1]

I think Van Berlo needs to pay his dues in the SANFL. Not really sure how he's a walk up start into the team after coming back from injury.

 

[Crowman32]

I think Van Berlo needs to pay his dues in the SANFL. Not really sure how he's a walk up start into the team after coming back from injury.

totally agree.

 

[bigman]

totally agree.

Bulldust.

VB was one of our better players today.

BUt Welshy must return.

And FFS lets bring in Douglas.

I am sick of the same players letting us down in pressure matches.

When will Bode actually kick a goal when the pressure is on!!!!!!!

 

[Alex99]

Bulldust.

VB was one of our better players today.

BUt Welshy must return.

And FFS lets bring in Douglas.

I am sick of the same players letting us down in pressure matches.

When will Bode actually kick a goal when the pressure is on!!!!!!!

Agree NVB was far from out worst player and shouldn’t be dropped, well after today’s performance. Richard Douglas should seriously be considered.

Why don’t you come out and name the player that continually let us down?

 

[RogerRabbit69]

Bode, Porplyzia, Doughty. Massie would all be watching their backs after pathetic performances.

In reality, very few of the guys played well today. Doughty and Massie certainly don't deserve to be dropped simply because of today's result. If you were selecting players purely on today's match, you'd drop half the side. It's time to take a deep breath.

 

[jo172]

In reality, very few of the guys played well today. Doughty and Massie certainly don't deserve to be dropped simply because of today's result. If you were selecting players purely on today's match, you'd drop half the side. It's time to take a deep breath.

We've known all season that they are very average players who have been playing well in a good team. It's time to bring in the above average players to give them a shot at playing well.

 

[RogerRabbit69]

So who comes in to take Massie's position as a mid-sized defender? And what better midfield options do the Crows have to replace Doughty?