See ya...wouldnt wanna be ya!!

[FadeAway]

Who Collingwood need to cut or trade from the list to move forward

First of all, SACK Adrian Fletcher as midfield coach. he is a waste of space!

TRADE OR SACK
Jason Cloke
Cameron Cloke
David Fanning
Julian Rowe
Tristan Walker

PLAYERS RETIRED
Blake Carracella
Chad Morrison

WHATS HAPPENING WITH?
Adam Iacobucci (this guys need to push hard in 2007)
Benjamin Davies (shows some talent needs to make another step in 2007)
Ryan Cook (???)

 

[Murray]

Fannig was only elevated last year, I suspect he got a 2 year contract then

Ryan Cook just turned 18 ffs
Davies will stay.

I notice you think that dud Brent Hall should stay - oh dear

Mmmm, give it another shot

 

[FadeAway]

Fannig was only elevated last year, I suspect he got a 2 year contract then

Ryan Cook just turned 18 ffs
Davies will stay.

I notice you think that dud Brent Hall should stay - oh dear

Mmmm, give it another shot

I stand to be corrected, Brent Hall i accidently left him off my **** list! **** him off too

 

[CarnthePies]

But he's been playing some great footy for the Reserves Reserves

 

[Lonie_from_50]

Change Cam or Fanning to Hall!

 

[sloth6]

I think Shane Wakelin should reitre. Give JA a shot in the ones next year and keep him there!

I believe unfortunately, we will be one of three or four teams fighting for the 7 and 8 spots next year. I can't see us improving as much as some of the teams that just missed out.

Cam Cloke to stay, just needs to get his body right. Just sign him up on a one year deal. One last chance to prove he can play in the big league instead of dominating at VFL level.

 

[MarkT]

Who Collingwood need to cut or trade from the list to move forward

First of all, SACK Adrian Fletcher as midfield coach. he is a waste of space!

TRADE OR SACK
Jason Cloke
Cameron Cloke
David Fanning
Julian Rowe
Tristan Walker

PLAYERS RETIRED
Blake Carracella
Chad Morrison

WHATS HAPPENING WITH?
Adam Iacobucci (this guys need to push hard in 2007)
Benjamin Davies (shows some talent needs to make another step in 2007)
Ryan Cook (???)

Nothing against that assessment as such but they are all easy conventional wisdom calls. That is what we have done year after year. It isn’t enough. We exit 7 or 8, promote a rookie or two, take 5 kids only 2 of which are with picks early enough to carry any real expectations and then search for a PSD or trade to bring in a list filler or two.

We either make calls on the middle of the list with players like Lockyer, O’Bree, Lonie, R. Shaw, Davis etc or we continue down the same dead end. The fact is our list is not good enough and it won’t get good enough by the same course as previously.

 

[MarkT]

All just off the top so I may have missed one or two:

Retire:
Morrison
Caracella

Delist (obviously try and trade first):
Hall
Walker
Fanning
Rowe
J. Cloke

Trade 2 of:
Lonie
O’Bree
Lockyer

Test the market:
Davis
Tarrant
Maxwell
Richards
R.Shaw

Promote:
Harry.

Draft:
10, 28, 44, 60, 76

PSD:
Take a punt.

Trades in:
A ruckman. A quick skilled midfielder and early or upgraded draft picks. Whatever we can get in that lot.

Don’t forget that the following year we will have at least 2 list created by Wakelin and Burns if they remain for 2007 (which I hope they do). By then we need to either trade or delist the survivors of the trade and test the market group unless they have clearly demonstrated they are best 22 players and they have performed in the big games and under pressure. Over the next 12 months we also have to make calls on Iaccabucci, Davies and a few others. I'd like to cut deep this year as we should have over the last 2.

 

[Coin_Toss]

I hope Lockyer gets the flick but Mick has other thoughts. He should join Brent Hall (one big dud), Tristen Walker (one-trick pony), Julian Rowe (laziness), David Fanning (below AFL standard), Jason Cloke (the scrapegoat).

Originially posted by MarkT
We either make calls on the middle of the list with players like Lockyer, O’Bree, Lonie, R. Shaw, Davis etc or we continue down the same dead end.

R. Shaw has played some very good games since he came back from a knee reconstruction against the Bulldogs in Round 9. O'Bree has continued on his good form from last year. Lonie has reinvented himself this year, if he left I wouldn't hold any grudges... though. I'm a Davis fan - he'd stay regardless!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Agree with Mark on the whole. We need to trade two experienced players (age 23+)as a minimum.

With these exceptions, most of which are marginal differences in how hard you try and trade players.

The three I'd shop the hardest would be Lonie Lockyer and Davis.

Would not delist J Cloke if a trade not found
Would not trade O'Bree (I'dshop him around passively though)
Would put Davis on the trade table
Would not shop Maxwell or R Shaw.
Would tap Wakelin on the shoulder and say thanks very much.
Would keep Richards.

 

[MarkT]

R. Shaw has played some very good games since he came back from a knee reconstruction against the Bulldogs in Round 9. O'Bree has continued on his good form from last year. Lonie has reinvented himself this year, if he left I wouldn't hold any grudges... though. I'm a Davis fan - he'd stay regardless!

I’m not saying they all have to go. I am saying we have to seriously consider the pros and cons and make calls either way. In regards to Shaw, I love the Collingwood heart but his career output hasn’t been good enough and his disposal is still to iffy. Overall we have poor disposal. It killed us too often this year and again in the final. He does have pace though which we also lack. I have no issue if he gets another year at all but he is in the mix of players teetering. O'Bree is a front runner and his disposal isn't good enough be and large. At his best he gets a lot of the ball and kicks the odd goal. For that reason he might have trade value. This is the perfect time to get a return for O'Bree.

 

[Pienight]

Rowe had the dreaded osteo, so swap him with the booch, too vanilla... cant believe the way Colin Wisbey talked him up and said he was quick... Wiz is definitely past his used by date... said "Thomas does nothing special"... I hope he bags all our recruits again, that will guarantee another bumper crop

 

[sonofswift]

Clone Clement - one of the best players in the league

 

[Jabso]

Retired:
7. Morrison
10. Caracella

Stone Cold Delist:
12. Walker
30. Fanning
40. Hall

Delist or Trade off:
9. Rowe

Try to trade:
3. Lonie
21. Richards
24. Lockyer
34. J.Cloke

Trade Bait (only trade if we get something good in return)
1. Davis
11. O'Bree
20. Tarrant (only in extreme circumstances)

Promote:
43. Harry O'Brien (leaving a rookie spot open for Martin Clarke)

Young players on last chances, need to step up:
C. Cloke
Iacobucci
Cox (R)
Toovey (R)
Nicholls (R)
(all the rookies are on their 2nd year so must impress)
Davies

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Tristen Walker (one-trick pony)

He has a trick?

 

[Cyclops]

I hate this part of the game, where you have to cull all these young blokes.

We need pace, so Lonie and Davis should stay. I suppose Walker has done his dash. Is Rowe that bad?

If J Cloke wants more of a senior role (a la Scotland) he should be traded to the club of his choice. He's busted a gut for us and done his best and I'd hate for us to burn him because he doesn't fit our game plan.

I guess I'm too sentimental to do this effectively. If I was in charge I'd end up trading a ot of draft picks to get the ruckman we need and stuff up the rest of the recruiting cycle.

 

[jonesy86]

alan toovey will get promoted....he is going to be another james clement type

martin clarke the kid from ireland comes straight on to the list as an 'international rookie' which is outside of the normal rookie list

 

[Madd Matt]

He has a trick?

Yup, he tricked Collingwood into thinking he was any good!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Is Rowe that bad?

Not really, but the question should be, "is he that good?".

He's never shown anything more than potential to be handy. Players who are not particularly big, quick, skilled or strong struggle in the modern game. Modern players need to have a string to their bow, its no longer enough to be adequate at everything.

 

[MarkT]

Not really, but the question should be, "is he that good?".

He's never shown anything more than potential to be handy. Players who are not particularly big, quick, skilled or strong struggle in the modern game. Modern players need to have a string to theor bow.

Spot on. If we were a top end list looking for depth and a 3 or 4 quality draftees to keep the pipeline moving you might look at Rowe as a player that hasn’t done enough wrong to be delisted and give him a year to prove himself. In our case the question is will he drive us forward and the answer is not likely. We need to trawl the draft and rookie options and find the new midfield etc that will carry us forward.

I just hope this year makes the club take note and realize that our list is not good enough and the faith they placed in it was unfounded. We had a good run with injury and had no excuses. It’s time to get ruthless and aggressive.

We are supposed to have set KPI’s and measurement procedures after last years review. Surely many of them have not been met. On or off field we must have people that have not reached the standard set for them.

 

[Jabso]

I think Iacobucci is more likely to get the axe than Rowe. Rowe has had OP so the club might give him another chance while Iacobucci has been relatively injury free but hasn't shown enough weapons. He got his chance in the senior team didn't impress and despite good form in VFL wasn't bought back. I see alot of Brayden Shaw in his situation. As much as we like to think he was delisted because of his father it was because he wasn't good enough, not enough guns. However Yakka seems to have a much better attitude at training than Brayden did by some reports and has more drive.

I am a big wrap for Yakka and I think with some work everything will start to click and when that happens he could be almost anything.

 

[MarkT]

I am a big wrap for Yakka and I think with some work everything will start to click and when that happens he could be almost anything.

He can’t be the quick skilled mid we need. Whether he can be the grunt ball winner we also need is the question and whether his disposal is or will be of a high level is the next issue. We have enough players to deal with that he can have another year IMO but I haven’t seen enough to have any confidence in that assessment. I am ambivalent on Yakka.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I see alot of Brayden Shaw in his situation. As much as we like to think he was delisted because of his father it was because he wasn't good enough, not enough guns. However Yakka seems to have a much better attitude at training than Brayden did by some reports and has more drive.

I am a big wrap for Yakka and I think with some work everything will start to click and when that happens he could be almost anything.

You're contradicting yourself big time. First you say Brayden wasnt good enough, then you say Yakka is good enough, then you say Brayden had a bad attitude, then you say Yakka has a great attitude and more drive. And yet you see a lot of similarities between Brayden Shaw's situation and Adam Iaccabucci's, then you proceed to provide examples of why your theory is totally wrong!!!!

IMO Yakka is an issue to discuss at the end of 2007.

 

[MarkT]

Have we ever agreed this much in 1 week Timmy?

 

[Cool hand]

Know some serious people on the Collingwood board. It would appear all your thoughts on who to trade and de-list is so far off the target its embarrassing. You guys don't know, and just don't get it.