Seriously, is it 'Pie time to do a Hird?

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

The Collingwood heirachy have for some time been considering ways to reduce Nathan Buckley's workload in order to prolong his AFL career.

Should they take a leaf out of Essendon's book and appoint a new captain? In the Bomber's case most believe they did the right thing by James Hird...... even if many, like myself, are unsure if Matt Lloyd is the man for the job. Time will tell!

As an outsider my view is that the best replacement at the Magpies is Josh Fraser. I consider him the most intelligent and capable alternative available, provided he has completely recovered from injury.

Whose decision should it be? My gut feeling is that Mick would welcome it but Eddie may seek to overrule him to keep Bucks as the public face of Collingwood, playerwise at least.

Serious comments welcome on if and when such a move should be made.

 

[moe sizlak]

The Collingwood heirachy have for some time been considering ways to reduce Nathan Buckley's workload in order to prolong his AFL career.

Should they take a leaf out of Essendon's book and appoint a new captain? In the Bomber's case most believe they did the right thing by James Hird...... even if many, like myself, are unsure if Matt Lloyd is the man for the job. Time will tell!

As an outsider my view is that the best replacement at the Magpies is Josh Fraser. I consider him the most intelligent and capable alternative available, provided he has completely recovered from injury.

Whose decision should it be? My gut feeling is that Mick would welcome it but Eddie may seek to overrule him to keep Bucks as the public face of Collingwood, playerwise at least.

Serious comments welcome on if and when such a move should be made.

It is a good point, but i don't think you can really have another captain with Nathan Buckley in the side, if you catch my drift.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Jimmy Clement could be an option? but would the club rather have a younger player who shows good leadership qualities and would be more benficial to the clubs long term future.

 

[pazza]

Is there a clear alternative choice, either anointed or otherwise at Collingwood, like there has been at Essendon and that would appear to be in Brisbane (Voss to Brown)?

 

[Lensen]

If Josh Fraser ever captains us we may as well give up. Heart of a pea.

Clement's the man. By a long, long way.

 

[Groove]

It is a good point, but i don't think you can really have another captain with Nathan Buckley in the side, if you catch my drift.

Thats a very good point. I dont think Bucks could play without being captain anymore.

 

[FIGJAM]

If Josh Fraser ever captains us we may as well give up. Heart of a pea.

Incorrect Lenny. Big heart, great ability, weak body.

Buckley's still the best player in our team, if not the comp. He can lead for at least another year.

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

Thats a very good point. I dont think Bucks could play without being captain anymore.

Surely the Holy Trinity at Collingwood cant go on forever without some sort of major shake-up?

Eddie(the godFATHER)
Bucks(the prodigal SON)
Mick(the HOLY GHOST)

They have changed the jumper, added more specialist support staff than the cast of Ben Hur, and gone space-age on training and facilities. All superficial stuff but when are they going to bite the bullet?

They should get serious by deciding now(and preferably keeping it private amongst themselves) for:-

1) Buckley to do a Hird either before the season starts, or after the first 6 rounds or so,

and if the 'Pies dont make the 2006 finals then.......
2) Mick will not have his contract extended, and

3) Eddie will step down as President due to his mainstream business and family commitments.

 

[pazza]

Let's look at the alternatives:

Anthony Rocca - fitness?
James Clement - age?
Chris Tarrant - attitude?
Paul Licuria - yeah why not?
Josh Fraser - fitness?
Scott Burns - too old now?


Geez..it looks threadbare!

 

[Powerstufff]

My understanding is Hird is already wanting to retire but was asked by Sheedy to stay on one more year to support whoever the new captain was to be.
I'd think that come the end of this year Buckley could be in the same situation. But maybe not. I guess the idea of a phased transition is not something every captain or every club is interested in. Buckley may choose to retire after playing out his last game as captain.
Either way sad to contemplate the game losing two real champions.

 

[Helix]

Incorrect Lenny. Big heart, great ability, weak body.

Buckley's still the best player in our team, if not the comp. He can lead for at least another year.

I don't think anyone would argue that he couldn't lead, but perhaps he shouldn't. Same with Voss. I would like to see the merits of the successor with the leader still on the field to assist in the transition.

 

[pazza]

My understanding is Hird is already wanting to retire but was asked by Sheedy to stay on one more year to support whoever the new captain was to be.
I'd think that come the end of this year Buckley could be in the same situation. But maybe not. I guess the idea of a phased transition is not something every captain or every club is interested in. Buckley may choose to retire after playing out his last game as captain.
Either way sad to contemplate the game losing two real champions.

It's been nearly a tradition in my time as a Bomber fan to see the new captain and the old captain play side by side.

Ken Fletcher played his last year with Simon Madden as captain.
When Madden left as captain, the plan was he would play under Neale Daniher (bloody knee reconstruction).
Neale would play under Terry Daniher.
Terry would play under Watson.
Watson would play under Thompson.
Thompson under O'Donnell.
O'Donnell under Hird.
Hird under Lloyd.

 

[moe sizlak]

It's been nearly a tradition in my time as a Bomber fan to see the new captain and the old captain play side by side.

Ken Fletcher played his last year with Simon Madden as captain.
When Madden left as captain, the plan was he would play under Neale Daniher (bloody knee reconstruction).
Neale would play under Terry Daniher.
Terry would play under Watson.
Watson would play under Thompson.
Thompson under O'Donnell.
O'Donnell under Hird.
Hird under Lloyd.

Nobody cares about your crummy captain/new captain history. This thread is about collingwood, hence it will be popular.

 

[doppleganger]

If Josh Fraser ever captains us we may as well give up. Heart of a pea.

Clement's the man. By a long, long way.

you cant be serious??

josh cant give more oh himself to the collingwood footy club

he came in as a kid with the biggest wraps you could think of, being collingwoods saviour must have been hard to cope with, was thrown into the ruck when body wasn't ready...even tho mick sadi they would ease him into footy. played his guts out for four years, getting the pies into two grand finals....but the work load he carried when his body wasn't up to it has caught up with him over the last couple of years and look how the pies results have suffered!!

no other key ruck of recent years has shown as much as fraser did in his first few seasons, most have done nothing really but because josh was supposed to just dominate from the get go he has been unfairly judged

if buckley keeps the captaincy until the end of 07....hope so

josh fraser will be collingwoods captain in 2008

 

[Johnson#26]

If Josh Fraser ever captains us we may as well give up. Heart of a pea.

As harsh as it gets, from a supporter of his club. Lenny, really. The guy has plenty of guts - just a very slender frame. Goes the hardball, and doesn't back off (from what I've seen). BOG (for us) in the 2003 Grand Final (not hard for us to reach), despite being monstered by the likes of Keating and Charman - he still battled on. Was a key for us in 2002.

Is there a clear alternative choice, either anointed or otherwise at Collingwood, like there has been at Essendon and that would appear to be in Brisbane (Voss to Brown)?

There is, in Josh Fraser. James Clement also comes close, and had their thread been started a year or two ago, Rocca would also be up there. Ben Johnson is a darkhorse.

Not time for Bucks to give up as captain, yet. Still the best leader we have, and does the job very well. A fit and firing Nathan Buckley, anyone would agree, makes a massive difference - and he will spend time in the midfield in 2006 if he can remain on the park. Don't write him off, yet.

 

[Johnson#26]

They should get serious by deciding now(and preferably keeping it private amongst themselves) for:-

1) Buckley to do a Hird either before the season starts, or after the first 6 rounds or so,

and if the 'Pies dont make the 2006 finals then.......
2) Mick will not have his contract extended, and

3) Eddie will step down as President due to his mainstream business and family commitments.

There is a saying used many a time by Ian Chappell:

"As soon as you think about retiring, you are effectivly retired".

Bucks has unfinished business. As does Eddie, as does Mick. Mick will get another year in 2007, I believe, regardless of the result next year (unless it is even worse than 2005). The club will not implode.

But at least you posed the questions in a sensible fashion - a thought provoker. Good stuff.

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

There is a saying used many a time by Ian Chappell:

"As soon as you think about retiring, you are effectivly retired".

Bucks has unfinished business. As does Eddie, as does Mick. Mick will get another year in 2007, I believe, regardless of the result next year (unless it is even worse than 2005). The club will not implode.

But at least you posed the questions in a sensible fashion - a thought provoker. Good stuff.

Buckley is only getting his second wind as a player, so I'm not in any way suggesting he retire........ just a complete change in approach. That process has already begun with the idea of moving him up forward. Much more can and should be done.

The best analogy I can give is one Kevin "Hungry" Bartlett. He was a champion rover...... but as the years rolled on he began to slow a bit and some other high quality rovers emerged(like Dale Weightman and Robert Wiley). KB was moved to the HF flank and re-invented himself. End result was a then record 403 senior VFL games and a massive goal tally. Not that you need reminding but the 1980 final series, and especially the grand final, proved that beyond all doubt.

Buckley can do the same at Collingwood, especially if Fraser, Rocca and Tarrant remain sound.

On the other hand Eddie and Mick need to bite the bullet ASAP. They have fiddled and farted around with the external imagery and peripherals but not yet opened the bonnet. Sort out Buckley's role and arrange a smooth leadership transition. My suggestion is to agree it privately now in principle and then review it after about 6 rounds..... watch closely how Fraser, Rocca etc. are travelling at that stage and then decide yeh or nay.

As I said previously Collingwood really need to make the finals in 2006 otherwise Mick and/or Eddie are likely to be in big trouble.

Just my honest opinion.

 

[Kooley]

rocca would be a good captain. seems to lift in big games. the only query is his fitness.

 

[Johnson#26]

On the other hand Eddie and Mick need to bite the bullet ASAP. They have fiddled and farted around with the external imagery and peripherals but not yet opened the bonnet. Sort out Buckley's role and arrange a smooth leadership transition. My suggestion is to agree it privately now in principle and then review it after about 6 rounds..... watch closely how Fraser, Rocca etc. are travelling at that stage and then decide yeh or nay.

As I said previously Collingwood really have to make the finals in 2006 otherwise Mick and/or Eddie are likely to be in big trouble.

Fair enough, mate, although I can't see Eddie leaving at the end of the season, regardless of what occurs.

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

Fair enough, mate, although I can't see Eddie leaving at the end of the season, regardless of what occurs.

I agree but if the 'Pies dont have a good season it may not be what the club really needs.

Is it just me or do others also think Eddie pulls all the strings and inhibits Mick and Balmey from performing the roles they are well qualified for?