Shane O'Bree

[Trojan82]

A number of people here at BF have been calling for O'Bree to be dropped some even suggesting that while he is in the side we wont win a premiership.

I can't for the life of me work out why. Can someone please shed some light on this?

He missed 1 game last year (V St. Kilda round 19 because of a thigh strain). He is a team leader, he is in the leadership group this year along with Maxwell, Fraser, Pendlebury, Swan and Lockyer.

He is constantly at the bottom of packs feeding the ball out. Just based on last years stats he averaged 4.6 Tackles per game (4.8 if you don't include the Hawthorn game where he strained his thigh and left early) Last Saturday he made 8 Tackles and had 28 Disposals (10K 7M 18HB) won 8 Contested possessions (Only beaten on the day by Porplyzia who had 9) He did make 3 Clangers (Not the worst by far and only Pendles and Presti had none for the day).

No-one can surely deny his work ethic and hardness at the ball. Who is going to step up and take his place if he isn't playing? Beams? Ha. Lets compare them.... Number of AFL Games O'Bree 215, Beams 0. Enough comparing? For those who think there isn't room for both of them....Burns and O'Bree played side-by-side last year...remember?

So I need some O'Bree knockers to tell me why he shouldn't get a game. It does not make sense to me.

 

[hotpie]

Very few say he shouldnt get a game. He's good at what he does and is easily in our best 22. And, yes, he may even be a bit underrated.

But we need a better midfield and while he remains our best clearance player, we wont go very far. We should be in a position where the likes of O'Bree are challenged by younger more talented players. Not sure we're there yet, I only see Stanley and Wellingham (to go with Swan) as that inside type.

 

[esc0bar]

A number of people here at BF have been calling for O'Bree to be dropped some even suggesting that while he is in the side we wont win a premiership.

I can't for the life of me work out why. Can someone please shed some light on this?

He missed 1 game last year (V St. Kilda round 19 because of a thigh strain). He is a team leader, he is in the leadership group this year along with Maxwell, Fraser, Pendlebury, Swan and Lockyer.

He is constantly at the bottom of packs feeding the ball out. Just based on last years stats he averaged 4.6 Tackles per game (4.8 if you don't include the Hawthorn game where he strained his thigh and left early) Last Saturday he made 8 Tackles and had 28 Disposals (10K 7M 18HB) won 8 Contested possessions (Only beaten on the day by Porplyzia who had 9) He did make 3 Clangers (Not the worst by far and only Pendles and Presti had none for the day).

No-one can surely deny his work ethic and hardness at the ball. Who is going to step up and take his place if he isn't playing? Beams? Ha. Lets compare them.... Number of AFL Games O'Bree 215, Beams 0. Enough comparing? For those who think there isn't room for both of them....Burns and O'Bree played side-by-side last year...remember?

So I need some O'Bree knockers to tell me why he shouldn't get a game. It does not make sense to me.

Its because people don't understand the different elements to the game, including getting down and under to get the ball out - they may not be the player running away with it but they have applied pressure, bumps, taken the opposition out of the frame etc. Obree does this well yes. He also tackles and applies great pressure.

Awesome. if only they stopped the game for subsititions to take place after someone wins a clear possession. Then we can get someone on with enough skill to kick, mark and handball to come on! if only...

 

[hotpie]

pls delete, double post

 

[Return of the Pies]

I will have a go at this one, as I have been an O'Bree knocker a bit through his career. Posters above have cited his 1% efforts and I agree this is his best asset, and one which under Malthouse I am sure has kept him in the team.
The reference to clearances and quantitative stats in O'Bree's case I think can be mis-leading. On paper his numbers stack up, but what that doesn't tell you is the qualitative aspect of what he does.
eg. His contested ball is high, but often a result of second efforts where his first was a fumble.
His possessions are high, but has he ever been tagged? Opposition don't worry about him with the ball.
He doesn't create opportunities like the better clearance players (Mitchell etc.), often it is just unceremoniously slammed on the boot or blindly handballed. Rarely would a clearance also result in a goal assist.
And of course there's the patented clangers, which always seem to be just when everyone has burst out forward, whereby the turnover is twice as costly and usually in a vulnerable part of the ground.
He has been a great servant and by all reports sets the example as a team man on and off the field, so massive kudos for that. But I am of the school of thought, while Hawks have Mitchell, Cats have Selwood, we have O'Bree as best clearance players (arguably), then we are a long way off!

 

[FuManchu]

slow, one sided, poor disposal, turns the ball over, fumbles

NEXT!

 

[Optimax]

Obree is very very dual sided fu

 

[Rohan Coventry]

The fact that O'Bree is our best clearance midfielder highlights why we are so far away from Geelong & Hawthorn.

 

[shawthing09]

I don't think many people argue that he is a neccasary evil now. I don't think many people doubt what he brings to offer or the role he has played over his career.

The problem is that we are in a situation where we need to play him. Over the course of his career we should have found a better option so that now even if he is not out of the side, he is at least not indespensable like he actually is ATM.

Does the positives he offers outweigh the negatives???? I think so most of the times, but not to the point where he is a player that should demand selection IMO, yet he does because we have no one else capable of doing what he does. Look at Mitchell, Bartel, Cross, Selwood etc for the type of inside player we should be trying to find rather then being content with O'Bree someone capable of doing the tough inside things without being a liability in terms of disposal and efficency. Also his stats are skewed as he is the only player on our list who plays completely through the midfield due to his lack of versatility.

Don't get me wrong he is not as bad as some people make out. He has been a great club servant but there is still an issue that ATM we should be looking beyond him and easing the pressure on him, yet he is actually one of the most important players on the list because we don't have another player to play his role.

 

[shawthing09]

Obree is very very dual sided fu

His one side is his opposite.

 

[smiddaz123]

I think a better way to describe O'Bree would be no sided.

He comes with his negatives attributes, but anyone who thinks O'Bree is expendable is kidding themselves.

Strong body, courageous, experienced, our best player in the packs. How can we drop that?

He'd struggle to be a consistently best 22 player at most other clubs, but his role is a weakness at Collingwood. Undraoppable right now.

 

[mattys123]

In a time when we have a very poor midfield, people are calling for the axing of our 3rd best midfielder.

He averages over 20 possessions a game, and although I dont have the stats, would easily be in the top 3 for clearances at the pies.

Maybe in 1 or 2 years when Sidebottom, Beams etc develop into full time midfielders we may need to ask O'bree to retire, but at the moment he is as good as any midfielder we have after Pendles and Swanny.

Get off his back, there were others in our 22 last week that offered one hell of a lot less then O'bree, and some of them were senior players also.

 

[FuManchu]

Obree is very very dual sided fu

Then we are in trouble because when he has to rush the ball to boot on his right, its like watching an unco. Whats even worse, its like watching the Queen Mary turn so that he can get to his preferred side.

Someone said he is our 3rd best mid. Thats an indictment in itself. If in 9 years we havent come up with someone better than him, what the hell has the club been doing?

name any other top 8 side he would get a game in as a mid

actually name any side in the league he would be a walk up player every week as a mid and lets look at where that team is right now.

He holds us back. If we had bitten the bullet with him after 2004/5, we may have developed someone better, maybe Davis or Didak, but now people are just talking about rotating them thru the midfield after 8 or 9 years!

O'Bree's continuance is one of the best indications of MM's mindset, safety first, no flair.

 

[Alexander323bc]

From http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,21548237-23211,00.html

"The downside is that Collingwood over the past three seasons has been in the tope three of clubs producing clanger kicks - kicks which directly cause turnovers."

So just because O'bree has a low clanger kick doesn't mean that he uses the ball effectively by hand or foot. Why he persistently uses his left when he is a right footer is beyond me. Is it Ego or he just forgot how to kick on his right?

The amount of times he has kicked to a player on a lead and missed him by a considerable distance is unforgivable for someone with over 200 games of experience. I would trade him for Gibbs in a second and he is only a second year player. Thomas can kick better and has better decision making abilities under pressure and that says a lot. He might be a leader but it doesn't matter what you say, missing a player on a lead 40 meters away is more demoralising then anything you can do in and under. Because it is the missed opportunity that is glaring in the eyes of the team mates and supporters not the clearance.

 

[jerry springer]

will give this a crack,havent really thought too much on this issue

1.Is a turnover machine,in this high possesion football age we are in,clangers (of which Obree is the king of) cost matches,plain and simple.I still cant work out what is worse,his throw-it on the boot helicopter kick or his shovel it out to no-one in particular handball.both are ordinary

2.he has done nothing,repeat nothing since 2001 to improve his game.In fact last year it regressed sharply.It was horrible seeing him last season when he was injured trying to get on to his preferred foot

3.for all the people who state he is our clearance king how many times in a big game when a Simon Black/gary ablett/Adam goodes/Nathan foley,is tearing us a new one in the middle does obree stand up and win the hard ball?Never, he is a front-runner of the highest order

4.its obvious we are not in the same class as Geelong,hawthorn so what is the point of having a roster blocker in the team?We now have mccarthy,Beams and sideBum to get games experience into.Short term loss(if that) for long-term gain

 

[DoubleO7]

O'Bree is undroppable. What we so desperately need is what O'Bree just happens to excel at.

He might turn the ball over, he might kick a clanger or two but in the end he gives us first use of the ball.

He averages over 20 possessions a game, and although I dont have the stats, would easily be in the top 3 for clearances at the pies.

O'Bree was number one in clearances for the Collingwood midfield. Swan was second, IIRC.

 

[shawthing09]

I think a better way to describe O'Bree would be no sided.

He comes with his negatives attributes, but anyone who thinks O'Bree is expendable is kidding themselves.

Strong body, courageous, experienced, our best player in the packs. How can we drop that?

He'd struggle to be a consistently best 22 player at most other clubs, but his role is a weakness at Collingwood. Undraoppable right now.

I think that sums up everything I was trying to say.

 

[PiesMan]

very interesting topic of discussion i must say. and some level headed responses too.

Shane O'Bree is a player we cannot justify dropping.... only because we have no one to replace him. He has carved out a niche at collingwood and been very lucky that we have not found 1-2 more clearance type midfielders over the last few years. he is great at getting the clearance but he almost totally dilutes the importance of that clearnace by kicking a 9-iron to the edge of the centre square and often to collingwoods disadvantage...

his clanger count is often high and he does seem to make errors at critical times. but - having said all that - there is no way he will be dropped as he is by far our best clearance mid. jeez, just think how badly Selwood, Mitchell, Watson and Cross would ANNIHILATE us if he wasn't there. they could all get 50+ touches.

didn't Shaun Burgoyne get 16 clearences in a HALF late last year at AAMI???? correct me if i am wrong

 

[FuManchu]

O'Bree is undroppable. What we so desperately need is what O'Bree just happens to excel at.

He might turn the ball over, he might kick a clanger or two but in the end he gives us first use of the ball.

Well, if you are the oposition and you know he will extract it and turn it over to you in a less congested area which gives you even more time to use the ball in a more constructive way, is the very reason we should get rid of him.

O'Bree was number one in clearances for the Collingwood midfield. Swan was second, IIRC.

A further indictment that we are poor. Being the best at something in a poor midfield is not the qualitive measure you want to use. Who has he held back from being there that may have been better? All for the sake of MM being safe.

Another way to look at it is, How does he stack up against other sides mids? I bet he doesnt and has never stacked up. So why do we persist with such an obvious liability to team function and development?

 

[Alexander323bc]

Then we are in trouble because when he has to rush the ball to boot on his right, its like watching an unco. Whats even worse, its like watching the Queen Mary turn so that he can get to his preferred side.

Someone said he is our 3rd best mid. Thats an indictment in itself. If in 9 years we havent come up with someone better than him, what the hell has the club been doing?

name any other top 8 side he would get a game in as a mid

actually name any side in the league he would be a walk up player every week as a mid and lets look at where that team is right now.

He holds us back. If we had bitten the bullet with him after 2004/5, we may have developed someone better, maybe Davis or Didak, but now people are just talking about rotating them thru the midfield after 8 or 9 years!

O'Bree's continuance is one of the best indications of MM's mindset, safety first, no flair.

This is one topic that you and I agree on Fuman.

I said this in another topic, but he wont win us a premiership this year, and he should not be in our plans for next year because if he is we have failed as a club to manage our list. If this is the case we need to give a youngster a go and give them a go quick smart and sacrifice this year for the greater good next year. And unless Rocca plans to play next year, he should be used sparingly and the youngsters given a chance up forward. But that is a different topic all together.

 

[ChipDouglas]

From http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,21548237-23211,00.html

"The downside is that Collingwood over the past three seasons has been in the tope three of clubs producing clanger kicks - kicks which directly cause turnovers."

Collingwood had by far the biggest handball to kick ratio so it stands to reason that we are at or near the top in total clanger kicks. What percentage of our total kicks are clangers is the more relevant stat.

 

[thewhitelama]

I must be watching another game when we play....i don't understand how people are calling for his head!!? The games i attend, anyway, involve Shane Obree playing a vital role in how the team operates....you cant kick goals without first use - thanks shane, you also cant kick goals when the opposition have the nut - nice tackle shane (over and over again). He cannot, and will not be dropped....he also cannot, and will not be flashy, quick, or an A+ midfielder...we dont need/want him to be. He has a job, like everyone else...and he does it week in, week out.

 

[FuManchu]

Its laughable to say that because he is the best at the club after 9 years at one thing and that we should keep him. What if jason Wild was the best similarly, would that be the case to keep him?

We need to look at him compared to what other teams are ofering, if he hasnt come up to that level in 9 years, then its about time we started looking for players that do come up to scratch, not persist with 3rd rate.

As someone said the other day, and its quite apt: if you change nothing, nothing changes

 

[Alexander323bc]

The definition of crazy is if you keep doing the same thing and expect to get a different result every time.

 

[ozpie]

Fu manchu,
Why do u bother to comment on something u obviously know nothing about?......one sided my arse, cheesy is probably one of the best wrong foot kicks in the team, maybe the league. Maybe you should actually watch a couple of collingwood games before you decide to post on this site again.
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