Shattered

[smoovy]

The funny thing is that for the sake of a lousy 3 points we would be sitting currently second on the ladder. Now at the end of this round we could be out of the 8.

Geelong away would be the only possible time I would consider us a clear underdog in a match. The rest is more or less a toss up.

How tight is this season.

 

[flackjack]

The funny thing is that for the sake of a lousy 3 points we would be sitting currently second on the ladder. Now at the end of this round we could be out of the 8.

Geelong away would be the only possible time I would consider us a clear underdog in a match. The rest is more or less a toss up.

How tight is this season.

So unlike what a lot of people have been saying, our top 4 chances are not gone yet. Our percentage advantage could be what gets us that spot.

 

[crowsarethebest]

Very dissapointed. Losing Rutten did the damage. Bock who looked dangerous early got injured as well which didn't help. With Rutten in doubt next week we are in real trouble. Our 2 best tall defenders out would really really stretch our defense. If Bock doesn't come up as well we are screwed. If those 2 don't play then I expect 2 out of these 4 Griff, Gill, Sellar or McIntyre to be given a call up.


These close ones are the ones ou have to win. The teams are so even at the moment. We could be out of the 8. Very very. These games are the ones you want to win. We could've put St Kilda's finals hopes away but instead we keep them alive still. We are still in with a shot but top 4 is out of the question most likely. I thought Maric and Hudson both dominated in the ruck. Maric was awwsome. 15 hit outs along with some good around the ground work. He's a better option than Griff at the moment. He's got a massive leap as well, and his tap work was brilliant. Very promising game. Welsh had a pretty good game I thought. He kept us back in it with his straight shooting. Roo was ok. If he does play on next year, he'll only be a forward. He look very slow out there- on the leads he was alright when he had momentum going but it takes a long longtime for him to get to top speed at the moment. Could not chase at all. This might be his last year.


Bock was dangerous early up forward but got injured. Our injury curse continues. Of our youngsters, Knights was the best. Its great to see him consistentlyplay well. Hasn't had a game below 20 possies for quite a while which is a brilliant effort. Has Goodwin written all over him. Will be a star. VB was ok. He didn't have a lot of the ball but like always he went in hard. Desperation for the ball all the time. He also did a lot of the 1% and team things which ou don't see on the stats sheet. Future captain material. Dougie was average. Struggled with the tempo of AFL. I would like to see him given a good run before dropping him.


McGregor was killed by Gehrig. Not suited to FB, unfortunate that he had to play there. Was very easily outmuscled. Massie got smashed by Riewoldt. Buddy was a good match up fo him, but Riewoldt is such a great player. He's big, strong, agile, fast and is an excellent mark. Massie was just too short. Stevens really bugged me. Gave away some crap frees. Macca was himself- a star. Would have to have an AA spot in his bag. Reilly was pretty good. He had a few clangers though. Thommo didn't have as much influnce as last week. He was ok as well. Apart from the 1st and last quarter- we were killed by St Kilda's midfield. Hayes, Harvey and Montagna. They were free everywhere...


Johncock had a crap game... I mean how the hell could you be outuscled by Milne. Still not 100% yet. All in all it was a disappointing loss. Saints should've beaten us by a lot more. If they took their chances we would've lost by 6-7 goals.

 

[ams4crows]

great! no Rutten who the hell gets Pav next week!

if we win next win it'll be a super top effort by the guys considering the depleeted side and are strongest force the Backline is in a destruction zone!

 

[- PC -]

great! no Rutten who the hell gets Pav next week!

Im more worried about who will get him next year

 

[Stiffy_18]

Im more worried about who will get him next year

Boom Boom!!!

Last year at Subiaco, McGregor played on Pavlich and gave him a bath. I would be backing Kenny back in again.

Kenny on Pav
Stevens on Tarrant

Perrie to CHF.

OUT: Rutten (inj), Ricciuto (inj)
IN: Perrie, Mattner

 

[bus24]

Boom Boom!!!

Last year at Subiaco, McGregor played on Pavlich and gave him a bath. I would be backing Kenny back in again.

Kenny on Pav
Stevens on Tarrant

Perrie to CHF.

OUT: Rutten (inj), Ricciuto (inj)
IN: Perrie, Mattner

I agree, but if Gill outperforms Perrie tomorrow?

The FD88 Gill Train might have the brakes released and start to roll. No acceleration yet, but there might be movement

 

[smoovy]

So unlike what a lot of people have been saying, our top 4 chances are not gone yet. Our percentage advantage could be what gets us that spot.

Anything is possible and the only certainty is that there are no certainties.

One thing for sure is that form counts for nothing.

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

Positives: If Sellar plays well tomorrow and Bock/Rutten doesn't play next week, hes a chance for a guernsey.

 

[Crow-mo]

Shirley really struggled to keep up with del Santo .....it's not good when one player is moving apparantly freely and his tagger looks like he has run a marathon and is running on the spot

you know what's worse? having your tag running on the spot, and still being shut out of the game. FFS

 

[ThePeckers]

I think Rutten will play. I don't think sellar will get a game though.

We all need to get to this game, this is a season definer. Lets make it like last years final against the dockers, that was awesome! Carn the crows!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

you know what's worse? having your tag running on the spot, and still being shut out of the game. FFS

Your assumption:

1. Because Shirleys opponent didn't dominate it MUST be because the tagger did his job

2. maybe JUST maybe .......Del Santo just couldn't find the ball on the night?? ...

Unless you were there ....or unless you can see things on the TV that most can't then seeing player A following player B by 20 mtrs for large parts of the night IMO means he's really struggling to keep up .....and IS NOT the reason for Del Santos quiet night.

 

[Alex99]

this is an important point to remember.

Anyone wanting to blame this loss on injuries needs to remember that the rot set in in the Midfield way before Rutten was injured.....and.....the other significant injury being Roo.....was in fact our only avenue to goal in the latter stages of the game.

And this is the primary reason why Robert Shirley and Michael Doughty are always the first one named to be dropped.

Simon Goodwin, Scott Thompson, Brent Reilly and Tyson Edwards are extremely unlikely to get dropped. Chris Knights has shown enormous improvement this year and does not deserve to be dropped but the likely scapegoat to be dropped from the midfield is Richard Douglas who has only played 12 games of AFL football.

Offensive and defensive accountability plays a huge part in how a midfield direct a game, some of our midfielder are very good at getting 20 odd touches but show no accountability on the defensive end of the game. This is a huge problem and needs to be fixed, no point in getting 25 touches if your direct opponent gets 30 and does more damage

Was it Brent Reilly or Michael Doughty manning up on Leigh Montagna and how could they allow him to get 32 touches?

 

[Alex99]

Boom Boom!!!

Last year at Subiaco, McGregor played on Pavlich and gave him a bath. I would be backing Kenny back in again.

Kenny on Pav
Stevens on Tarrant

Perrie to CHF.

OUT: Rutten (inj), Ricciuto (inj)
IN: Perrie, Mattner

Both will come up (or at very least get through a 10 minuet fitness test on Friday) and play this week against Fremantle.

I can only see the only change being made from Friday night’s game.

In: Mattner

Out: Douglas

 

[WaynesWorld19]

And this is the primary reason why Robert Shirley and Michael Doughty are always the first one named to be dropped.

Simon Goodwin, Scott Thompson, Brent Reilly and Tyson Edwards are extremely unlikely to get dropped. Chris Knights has shown enormous improvement this year and does not deserve to be dropped but the likely scapegoat to be dropped from the midfield is Richard Douglas who has only played 12 games of AFL football.

Offensive and defensive accountability plays a huge part in how a midfield direct a game, some of our midfielder are very good at getting 20 odd touches but show no accountability on the defensive end of the game. This is a huge problem and needs to be fixed, no point in getting 25 touches if your direct opponent gets 30 and does more damage

Was it Brent Reilly or Michael Doughty manning up on Leigh Montagna and how could they allow him to get 32 touches?[/QUOTE]

For large sections of the game it was Doughty

 

[Crow-mo]

Your assumption:

1. Because Shirleys opponent didn't dominate it MUST be because the tagger did his job

yes, most people would call this a fair assumption, particularly if someone wants to make the case that the tagger DIDN'T do his job.

this is one of your more desperate attempts to validate your bias.

2. maybe JUST maybe .......Del Santo just couldn't find the ball on the night?? ...

or maybe you just want to believe anything, anything at all, that helps you sleep at night

c'mon this is pathetic.

Unless you were there ....or unless you can see things on the TV that most can't then seeing player A following player B by 20 mtrs for large parts of the night IMO means he's really struggling to keep up .....and IS NOT the reason for Del Santos quiet night.

1. was Neil Craig at the game? surely he would've pulled shirley in your scenario.
2. was Ross Lyon at the game? surely he would've pulled dal santo, if he couldn't get into the game with his opponent 20 metres behind for most the time?
3. were you at the game?
4. did you maybe, JUST maybe, spend a little too much time as a kid playing fantasy role play games?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

1. was Neil Craig at the game? surely he would've pulled shirley in your scenario.
2. was Ross Lyon at the game? surely he would've pulled dal santo, if he couldn't get into the game with his opponent 20 metres behind for most the time?
3. were you at the game?
4. did you maybe, JUST maybe, spend a little too much time as a kid playing fantasy role play games?

1. Yes .....Shirley was rotated with Van Berlo ......was it anything other than planned rotations ....who knows?

But it's not as if we had a lot of options ...Rutten was off and Roo had an ankle that would have counted him out of midfield duties ....so we ran with what we had.

2. If Del Santo is one of your prime movers ...as a coach are you going to perservere with him and hope he turns his game around? ....I'll let you answer that one

3. Yes I was at the game ....yourself?

4. Yes and still enjoy the odd fantasy game

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I would like to see the balance shift a bit back towards the tanglibles like kicking, catching, gut running, body positioning in a marking contest, high percentage decision making, allowing the talent and instinct of a players make up hold sway over the deliberate and conscious process.

Great, great post and a point that is relavent across all AFL clubs and all sports (to some degree) in the modern era where the 'art' of sport is being eroded by the science. Probably deserves its own thread.

You do wonder whether all the emphasis placed on tactics, match ups, and game plans is cluttering the mind of the modern footballer who might respond more positively to the old 'go in hard, get the footy, find a team mate' mantra.

On a similar theme, I'm rarely critical of Neil Craig but our use of tempo football is something I don't like. We're not going to try to score goals now because the opposition team has the momentum. We'll settle things down for a few minutes then, when we've weathered the storm, will flick the switch and start scoring again. To me there is a certain misplaced arrogance attached to the theory that you can control the momentum of a football game in this way. I think we have 'outsmarted' ourselves a few times this season - have gone into our shells for a period and been unable to get out. Malcolm Blight's Footy Gods certainly wouldn't like it.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Shattered is a bit strong (losing to Freo would qualify) but we are now 9th and facing an uphill battle to even make the eight. Looking ahead the next Showdown is going to be a cracker. More than just bragging rights for the victor. 51,000 easily.

To me the difference between the sides was the weapons they had at their disposal. The Saints had Reiwoldt, Gehrig, Milne and at times Koschitzke up forward and looked more dangerous all night. They are also prepared to deliver the 20-25 metre chip pass to the leading forward which is almost impossible to defend. These passes don't do heaps of damage at times but certainly bring these forwards into the game, allowing them to get their touch and confidence.

Our kick-ins were average all night. With Mattner out of the team Johncock seemed to fill in for him playing the role of Indecisive Player No. 1. Seemed to lose a bit of confidence after Milne got a couple of early goals. A rare poor game from him.

I have been critical of Welsh in the past but he was excellent - easily our best forward. Kicked three himself and gave off one to Burton and another to Bock. What I was most pleased with was his two pressure set shots from 45-50 metres in the 3rd and 4th quarters. I have noticed him missing these pressure shots in the past with his laser-like accuracy only on show when we're 5-6 goals up.

Some good signs from Burton though he is still a little more Y-factor than X-factor at the moment. Couple of games under the belt now, onward and upward. Reilly is startng to play a few more minutes and hopefully his ankle is now good enough for him to hit his top gear.

I hope Shane Birss doesn't join the C.C.C. (the Callum Chambers Club); players who only ever play well against the Crows. Chris Bryan from Collingwood is also a member. Has had three kicks in his AFL career - all goals in one game against the Crows earlier this season.

Overall a disappointing result but, as is always the way, even when we are outpointed we seem to find a way to work ourselves back in to the contest and almost pinched it in the end. There aren't many Crows games where we roll over and don't give a yelp, despite form or injuries. It is a good trait to have.

 

[Damp Squarie]

We're in trouble if Milnes a weapon
Stiffy did get pants though.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

And this is the primary reason why Robert Shirley and Michael Doughty are always the first one named to be dropped.

Simon Goodwin, Scott Thompson, Brent Reilly and Tyson Edwards are extremely unlikely to get dropped. Chris Knights has shown enormous improvement this year and does not deserve to be dropped but the likely scapegoat to be dropped from the midfield is Richard Douglas who has only played 12 games of AFL football.

Offensive and defensive accountability plays a huge part in how a midfield direct a game, some of our midfielder are very good at getting 20 odd touches but show no accountability on the defensive end of the game. This is a huge problem and needs to be fixed, no point in getting 25 touches if your direct opponent gets 30 and does more damage

Was it Brent Reilly or Michael Doughty manning up on Leigh Montagna and how could they allow him to get 32 touches?[/QUOTE]

For large sections of the game it was Doughty

He was so slow he arrived home 24 hours after the team did.
Fact.

 

[just maybe]

Stiffy did get pants though.

Really? Was that his bribe to play so badly?

 

[just maybe]

I hope Shane Birss doesn't join the C.C.C. (the Callum Chambers Club); players who only ever play well against the Crows. Chris Bryan from Collingwood is also a member. Has had three kicks in his AFL career - all goals in one game against the Crows earlier this season.

Um...is that meant to be badly attempted sarcasm?

He's had 133 kicks in 21 matches.

 

[OzSparrow]

You talking about the deliberate?

It was clearly deliberate.

Were you at the game?

From my seat, slightly in front of Mass 10 rows up on Level 1, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that he deliberately went out of bounds. Blondie's goal from the free kick was the sealer on a lousy decision IMHO.

From my viewpoint, Mass got possession of the ball approx. 2 steps from the boundary whilst running at speed towards the boundary - what is he supposed to do, stop on a dime?

Anyway, that lousy decision aside - because it didn't lose us the game - I agree with the sentiments expressed here already, and I am not in any way blaming the umps for our loss - we didn't deserve to win, but there are definitely 2 sets of rules for us when we play in Melbourne. I have been to all of our matches here in Melbourne and I watch the games interstate on TV.

Some other "interesting" decisions from the game from my vantage point:

2 minutes after Mass's deliberate there was a Saints player (couldn't see who it was) who "conveniently" rushed the ball over the line near the posts in the Saint's backline - no free kick given

Maguire and Kossi continually hitting the ball over the boundary line whilst in defence - no deliberate there, folks!

Gehrig's blatant dives for 2 free kicks in the last quarter against McGregor - 2 goals (he is the new Lloyd, folks)

Roo being blatantly pushed in the back twice in the last 3 minutes of the game whilst in our forward 50 - no free kicks there, folks (someone needs to explain to me how a man can propel himself forward as efficiently as Roo did if there was no push in the back)

Burton scragged all game whilst leading - it must be OK for Saints backmen to consistently hold opposing forward's arms whilst leading

Welsh's free kick in the 3rd quarter - still don't know what that was for - result = goal for us.

Saints ruckman Kossi able to take it out of the ruck in the last quarter right in front of his goals and get tackled with the ball with no free kick, just another ball up.

Holding the ball decisions in our forward line are non-existent (I think Welsh had at least one disallowed) yet seem to be regularly given in the Saint's forward line.

All I ask for is consistency in the interpretation of the rules FOR BOTH SIDES! It really is annoying to have to front up each week against 21 players on the field.

Getting most of your free kicks in the back half of the field is useless when the opposition is consistently able to get goals from at least 4 or 5 of their free kicks.

When even opposing supporters and 200+ game players do not know what a free kick is given for, the game is in ruins!

End of rant. Maybe I should start barracking for a Victorian side and my blood pressure will be eased. Hang on, I need to wash my mouth out for saying that!

Onwards and upwards to next week at home. Bliss!

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

He's had 133 kicks in 21 matches.

Wow. You went and looked that up? Well done.