Shayna Jack:- Will her case prove Australia's hypocrisy?

matthew_s

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How can Jack have received a four year penalty when there has been no Anti-Doping Tribunal to hear her case, decide on guilt or innocence and then determine a penalty if needed - I am surprised that some still have little knowledge of the Anti-Doping process works.
She hasnt, she is facing a 4 year ban.
 

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Ron The Bear

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Now she's doing her 'nana at Swimming Australia. Why did she speak up at all without having her story straight? All we've seen is a series of speculative articles obfuscating her culpability.

Put your case or do your time quietly. Dopers deserve no sympathy.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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ASADA issued a statement on the process, driven by the media discussion about the Jack case and clarifying why Swimming Oz couldn't say anything. Jack could.


Media Statement: Explanation of ASADA’s processes
29 July 2019
The following statement is intended to provide information about the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority’s (ASADA) processes and should not be attributed to an individual case.

Since 2006, ASADA has been entering into legally binding confidentiality undertakings with sporting organisations in accordance with provisions contained in the National Anti-Doping scheme. These undertakings restrict what sporting organisations can say. This is, and always has been, ASADA’s standard practice. One of the reasons as to why ASADA has these agreements is to protect the integrity of our investigations.

As a leading anti-doping organisation ASADA is one of a few anti-doping organisations globally that has investigation powers under legislation. It is ASADA’s standard practice to conduct a thorough investigation in relation to all allegations of doping in Australian sport, including when an athlete returns a ‘positive’ test result for a non-specified prohibited substance. This enables ASADA to assess the veracity of an athlete’s claims and determine whether other athletes or support persons are involved in a broader anti-doping issue, as well as taking into account the rights and welfare of the athlete.

More importantly, our investigations enable ASADA to target facilitators who may be preying on Australian sport and our athletes.
.......
Despite our powers, ASADA can never restrict an athlete’s right to discuss or talk about their case in public.
.......


Wind Guard this is maybe why some countries are higher up the list of number of violations. From the statement

Australians’ demand that our athletes compete on a level playing field and ASADA’s investigative powers and capability are an instrumental tool in ensuring that we lead the way in this area.

Not all anti-doping organisations have investigative powers and capabilities. Their processes are often limited to merely publicising a provisional suspension and then progressing a case with limited information or detail. By comparison, ASADA goes to great lengths to get to the core of potential anti-doping violations
.

NFL haven't signed up to the WADA Code so USADA don't test their players, they have their own independent testing. That's why the NFL numbers are low. Then there are countries like Jamaica who did bugger all testing on their sprinters over a couple of years leading up to London Olympics. Plus different countries spend different $$$ amounts into testing and tests per thousand competitive sports participants. Some smaller or poor countries don't have the funding to do wide testing say like the major western countries.

Re Jamaica see
and
 

HairyO

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Australia has an appalling doping violations record and yet Australians continue to point fingers at other athletes and countries.

Sports Doping Violations by country (2016) - top 4

1. Italy (147)
2. France (86)
3. USA (76)
4. Australia (75)
Wouldnt that make us experts? We have very good testing and catch a lot of cheats. Therefore would be in an ideal place to offer opinions to others?

Time after time we have seen countries hiding positive results and deliberately interfering with WADA. Look at FINA and the Chinese swimmer. WADA are going to take the medals off him and the World Championships will be seen as a farce.

ASADA do an excellent job.

Reckon most people, if they went through what they’d consumed over the years, would have inadvertently “doped” at some stage (particularly when caffeine was on the prohibited list!).
Only differences is we were never good enough at sport to have to pee in a cup for someone.
Given a tiny percentage are cheating, Id say very few inadvertently dope. Al the sporting bodies have lists of supplements known to be safe. She didnt use a supplement on that safe list.

So the fault falls with her, assuming she did inadvertently dope. We dont know whether she deliberately doped.

But Im pretty sure she will be getting 4 years.

The more interesting thing is Swimming Australia recommend swimmers dont use supplements because there are risks, and no proven benefits to them.

I dont imagine the supplements industry would like that sort of knowledge being mainstream. Billions of dollars being spent on expensive goo.
 

Wind Guard

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Wouldnt that make us experts? We have very good testing and catch a lot of cheats. Therefore would be in an ideal place to offer opinions to others?

Time after time we have seen countries hiding positive results and deliberately interfering with WADA. Look at FINA and the Chinese swimmer. WADA are going to take the medals off him and the World Championships will be seen as a farce.

ASADA do an excellent job.



Given a tiny percentage are cheating, Id say very few inadvertently dope. Al the sporting bodies have lists of supplements known to be safe. She didnt use a supplement on that safe list.

So the fault falls with her, assuming she did inadvertently dope. We dont know whether she deliberately doped.

But Im pretty sure she will be getting 4 years.

The more interesting thing is Swimming Australia recommend swimmers dont use supplements because there are risks, and no proven benefits to them.

I dont imagine the supplements industry would like that sort of knowledge being mainstream. Billions of dollars being spent on expensive goo.

For a country of 25 million to be on par in terms of doping violations with the USA which has over 12 times the population, as well as France and Italy is an appalling record.

You only need to look at the EFC drug bans to understand how much Australia hides its drugs in sport problem. How were the 34 Essendon players caught? Not by ASADA. In fact ASADA declaration forms were fraudulently completed - nothing to declare.

Pathetic to hear officials talk about tainted meat, mushrooms or spiked condoms - pathetic. Denial will only make the problem worse.

Again, self delusional apologetic nationalist spin. Everybody is dishonest, Australia honest. Everybody else hiding results, Australia sublimely transparent.
 
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HairyO

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For a country of 25 million to be on par in terms of doping violations with the USA which has over 12 times the population, as well France and Italy is an appalling record.

You only need to look at the EFC drug bans to understand how much Australia hides its drugs in sport problem. How were the 34 Essendon players caught? Not by ASADA. In fact ASADA declaration forms were fraudulently completed - nothing to declare.

Pathetic to hear officials talk about tainted meat, mushrooms or spiked condoms - pathetic. Denial will only make the problem worse.

Again, self delusional apologetic nationalist spin. Everybody is dishonest, Australia honest. Everybody else hiding results, Australia sublimely transparent.
Population doesnt matter. Look at the number of athletes.

And look at how seriously our top sports take anti doping and how seriously other countries do.
 

Wind Guard

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Population doesnt matter. Look at the number of athletes.

And look at how seriously our top sports take anti doping and how seriously other countries do.
Australia seems to be taking doping very seriously my friend.
The fact that mainstream media, political leaders shield the reality and make pathetic excuses doesnt change the facts.
Currently there are 63 Australian athletes serving doping bans - do you know the names of any of these 63 banned Australian athletes? The details are on the public record and published on the ASADA website.

Even members of our national Cricket Team was banned for ball tampered - sanctioned by the Skipper no less. We need to get out own backyard cleaned out first, rather than galloping around the planet lecturing other athletes and nations about their doping problems. The only country that consistently points the finger to my knowledge is Australia making us a laughing stock on the international stage.
 

HairyO

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Australia seems to be taking doping very seriously my friend.
The fact that mainstream media, political leaders shield the reality and make pathetic excuses doesnt change the facts.
Currently there are 63 Australian athletes serving doping bans - do you know the names of any of these 63 banned Australian athletes? The details are on the public record and published on the ASADA website.

Even members of our national Cricket Team was banned for ball tampered - sanctioned by the Skipper no less. We need to get out own backyard cleaned out first, rather than galloping around the planet lecturing other athletes and nations about their doping problems. The only country that consistently points the finger to my knowledge is Australia making us a laughing stock on the international stage.
We are.

2 cricketers got hammered for ball tampering. What penalties do other countries hand out?

How many tests do we do each year and how many do Russia do?

Australia leads the charge on anti doping. Has for decades.

But yeah, we are the laughing stock compared to China, Jamaica, Romania.
 

Wind Guard

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We are.

2 cricketers got hammered for ball tampering. What penalties do other countries hand out?

How many tests do we do each year and how many do Russia do?

Australia leads the charge on anti doping. Has for decades.

But yeah, we are the laughing stock compared to China, Jamaica, Romania.
Australia has never led the charge in clean sport. Again this is just nationalist spin rubbish.

The USA claims to be leading the charge in spreading democracy, freedom, justice, peace and love all over the world since the end of WW2.

All self delusional fodder for the domestic population to consume.

WADA itself, came about from external initiatives - mainly from the IOC.
"Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) was established on November 10, 1999, in Lausanne to promote and coordinate the fight against doping in sport internationally. WADA was set up as a foundation under the initiative of the IOC with the support and participation of intergovernmental organizations, governments, public authorities, and other public and private bodies fighting doping in sport."
 

Aeglos

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Given a tiny percentage are cheating, Id say very few inadvertently dope. Al the sporting bodies have lists of supplements known to be safe. She didnt use a supplement on that safe list.
I disagree.
How many amateur athletes do you think were/are using stimulants like those found in Jack3d (before it was made illegal)?
Or how many smoke weed or do lines on the weekend after they play?
How many asthmatics do you know that use salbutamol?
How many people use Sudafed to combat their colds?
 

Socrates2

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The blame game has started. There's no way you can have that much ligandrol in your system from taking a supplement or eating meat. Guilty.
 

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HairyO

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I disagree.
How many amateur athletes do you think were/are using stimulants like those found in Jack3d (before it was made illegal)?
Or how many smoke weed or do lines on the weekend after they play?
How many asthmatics do you know that use salbutamol?
How many people use Sudafed to combat their colds?
Maybe define "amateur".
 

Aeglos

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Maybe define "amateur".
Truest definition would be those who don’t earn a living from their sport.
Though that’s largely irrelevant to the original discussion (which is that Joe Blow down the road has likely consumed WADA prohibited substances in his lifetime and wouldn’t even realise).
 

HairyO

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Truest definition would be those who don’t earn a living from their sport.
Though that’s largely irrelevant to the original discussion (which is that Joe Blow down the road has likely consumed WADA prohibited substances in his lifetime and wouldn’t even realise).
Plenty of Olympians dont make a living from their sport. Most, in fact.

Are you suggesting they are doing lines of speed and popping pills without caring about the anti doping code?
 

Socrates2

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What was the quantity? Media is reporting she doesn't know and will find out at a meeting with ASADA on Friday.
That's right, even if she's slightly over she's been administered the drug, you can't get those levels from a protein shake, it's an anabolic steroid. You can tell from looking at her she has more lean muscle than the others, she has no hint of fat at all.
 

Aeglos

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Plenty of Olympians dont make a living from their sport. Most, in fact.

Are you suggesting they are doing lines of speed and popping pills without caring about the anti doping code?
This was the original post that I responded to:
Disgraceful stuff. She’s tested positive and will do her time. Seemingly another supplements victim.

But equally that’s why many professional athletes are paranoid about what they eat, drink or medicate with. Easy to spike a drink or plant something in food. At the end of the day a professional athlete is responsible for any substance in their body.
I was supporting the notion of professional athletes being paranoid about what they consume by pointing out that weekend warriors would frequently be consuming prohibited substances without knowing it, and that the main difference is that the weekend warrior was never good enough at their sport to be on an anti-doping associations radar.

In response to your last line - there are absolutely athletes, who are on the anti-doping radar, who are making a conscious decision to take drugs (prohibited or otherwise). Point in case: Lachlan Keeffe and Josh Thomas.
Not to mention that, technically speaking, even local footy players fall under the jurisdiction of anti-doping bodies and there’d be a decent % of them using anabolics, SARMs, stimulants (legal & illegal) etc
 

HairyO

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This was the original post that I responded to:


I was supporting the notion of professional athletes being paranoid about what they consume by pointing out that weekend warriors would frequently be consuming prohibited substances without knowing it, and that the main difference is that the weekend warrior was never good enough at their sport to be on an anti-doping associations radar.

In response to your last line - there are absolutely athletes, who are on the anti-doping radar, who are making a conscious decision to take drugs (prohibited or otherwise). Point in case: Lachlan Keeffe and Josh Thomas.
Not to mention that, technically speaking, even local footy players fall under the jurisdiction of anti-doping bodies and there’d be a decent % of them using anabolics, SARMs, stimulants (legal & illegal) etc
And I suspect a lot of the 60 or 70 a year come from those ranks. Serious athletes tend to be far more careful which is why we so infrequently hear about top athletes getting pinged - even though I bet they get FAR more tests each year than Joe Average the Weekend Footy Player.
 

owen87

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You can tell from looking at her she has more lean muscle than the others, she has no hint of fat at all.
Whilst I don’t disagree that she’s more likely than not done something deliberate, this is really quite a misnomer.

She’s hardly the bulging bodybuilder type; she looks basically like every other swimmer I grew up with. If we’re using her as a yardstick for steroid assisted physiques then we’ve really lost the plot.

I’ve seen recreational runners and triathletes that look more ripped than she does.
 

deathevocation

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Whilst I don’t disagree that she’s more likely than not done something deliberate, this is really quite a misnomer.

She’s hardly the bulging bodybuilder type; she looks basically like every other swimmer I grew up with. If we’re using her as a yardstick for steroid assisted physiques then we’ve really lost the plot.

I’ve seen recreational runners and triathletes that look more ripped than she does.
Eh? PED aren't about looking like a bodybuilder. They are about enhancing your performance in your chosen field and can address various areas such as recovery, endurance, strength, fat loss, muscle growth etc. Compare cycling to bodybuilding (both full of drugs) and it may help one understand how different drugs have different purposes. Pretty certain she got done for a SARM and not a steroid. You can buy SARMs over the counter in many stores in Australia.
 

Aeglos

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Eh? PED aren't about looking like a bodybuilder. They are about enhancing your performance in your chosen field and can address various areas such as recovery, endurance, strength, fat loss, muscle growth etc. Compare cycling to bodybuilding (both full of drugs) and it may help one understand how different drugs have different purposes. Pretty certain she got done for a SARM and not a steroid. You can buy SARMs over the counter in many stores in Australia.
I think his point was that we can’t assume Jack was using PEDs purely based on her physique which, in his opinion, is nothing out of the ordinary.
 

yaco55

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Doping figures can be rubbery - When you have countries like Australia, New Zealand, Australie etc who actively target 'weekend warriors' who are hardly professional athletes then the results are skewed.
 

deathevocation

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Doping figures can be rubbery - When you have countries like Australia, New Zealand, Australie etc who actively target 'weekend warriors' who are hardly professional athletes then the results are skewed.
Funny. About ten years back I would see ASADA at most powerlifting meets I competed at. I saw pensioners doing their first competition being tested. One night ASADA came to the gym we trained at and tested all members of our squad - all amateur lifters and only one at a world level. Pretty sure world level lifter had ASADA turn up to her workplace. What a waste of money and resources. Doubt it has changed. At the same time I knew someone who was involved in state level cycling - they said they never saw ASADA.
 

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