Should Doughty play on next year?

[Big Sledge #32]

The oldest player on our list Doughty has been a great servant of the club approaching 32 next year has signaled his intent to play again next year.


Doughty hoping to play on

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=117382

Doughty is out of contract at the end of the season, in keeping with the Crows' policy of only offering one-year extensions to players aged 30 or over, but said he was confident he had plenty to offer the team on and off the field next season.

"I think as long as you've still got that drive and desire to play, there's no reason why you should stop," Doughty told afl.com.au.

"I don't know what direction the club wants to go in, but I'm still trying to improve myself and am still enjoying the challenge of football.

"The club needs leadership and hopefully I provide that for the younger players.

"I'll just do as well as I can this week and try and help the club get out of the situation we're in at the moment.

"We've got a good young group and if they can stick together, they'll be a good young team in the years to come."

If you had of asked me at the start of the year I would have probably laughed at you, but with our dire lack of leadership & probable outs at seasons end I think we could use him for one more year. At worst he becomes a handy depth player for a coach not afraid to tear up his tickets.

He is probably on his way to another top 5 finish in the B&F and he is currently do the job that Reilly has failed to do up until this point a lot better than he has.

So what do the greater BF people think?

*ducks for cover as he sees Slippery Pete & co charging the stage with pitchforks*

 

[dangerzone]

Absolutely yes.

 

[relapse]

I would say no.

While Doughty would only cost half (due to being a senior) and doesnt really take a spot on our list what would he actually have to offer a developing side?

Personally I just dont see the upside in Doughty holding a spot in our 22 next year. Whether he stays or will depend on whether Craig is coaching us next year, if Craig stays then Doughty will stay if Craig is sacked then Doughty will retire.

 

[Big Sledge #32]

I would say no.

While Doughty would only cost half (due to being a senior) and doesnt really take a spot on our list what would he actually have to offer a developing side?

Personally I just dont see the upside in Doughty holding a spot in our 22 next year. Whether he stays or will depend on whether Craig is coaching us next year, if Craig stays then Doughty will stay if Craig is sacked then Doughty will retire.

I can understand that but as of next year I believe he will be taking up a spot as Rutten & Johncock will be available for the veterans list under new rules for veterans only requiring 10 years of service to qualify. Vader may be able to help me with this

So that complicates matters somewhat. I am all for the youth band wagon to so my decision surprises me as well. If he can perform to the level he is this year then I am absolutely fine with him staying on. If he drops off which can happen with 30+ players then I would think the decision is a bust.

At this point in time it depends on how much salary cap space we gain by having a Johncock/Rutten on the veterans list instead of him which could be the difference with other clubs circling.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

I say no. Mainly because we'll still have Truck and Stiffy down back, and I really haven't perceived any on-field 'leadership' from Doughty at all in any games I've seen. He's been a good, honest toiler, but is replaceable with some of the younger blokes on our list.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Sorry to harp on about it but it comes back to whomever the coach is.

If it's Neil Craig, you can be certain he will play and 2012 will be groundhog day.

If it's someone knew, with the withdrawal of a few other senior players (Symes, Reilly), this can make room for Doughty and Callahan to stay in the side. But at present, we are going nowhere.

I'm sorry if this is another negative post, but every aspect of the clubs and how it will move forward hinges on who is the coach next year.

For the record - I voted no.

 

[Crow About It]

The problem we have at the moment is that Reilly is performing sub-par as a tagger. Apart from Doughty we don't have anyone else who can do that job successfuly.

I think it would be beneficial to keep him around as experience to help 'train' a new tagger. If we've learned nothing else from the retirements of the big 3 we've learned that we need to phase in the expectations on our young players rather than throwing them in a "sink or swim" situation.

I'd like to see him around for a bit yet to help out the new breed of tagger/s at the club.

 

[Brasher]

Sorry for thread jacking and maybe I'm jumping at shadows but this comment:

"We've got a good young group and if they can stick together, they'll be a good young team in the years to come."

Worries me. It is the second time I've heard it this week (first was Dangerfield on Saturday night saying something along the lines of if this group can stay together for 3-4 years they will be good).

Always assumed that when your talking about your team mates playing together a player doesn't typically put that sort of qualification on that comment. Wouldn't a player's assumption be that the core of a good team coning up together would be sticking together?

Either the playing group knows its heading for a clean out or there are rumblings from within the group about moving on.

Back to the opening post topic...we do need more veteran influence on the field so probably should be given one more year.

 

[Big Sledge #32]

I say no. Mainly because we'll still have Truck and Stiffy down back.

Doughty is has pushed back into the midfield as a full time tagger over the last month to cover the ineptness of Reilly & is doing an admirable job at it.

Sorry to harp on about it but it comes back to whomever the coach is.

If it's Neil Craig, you can be certain he will play and 2012 will be groundhog day.

If it's someone knew, with the withdrawal of a few other senior players (Symes, Reilly), this can make room for Doughty and Callahan to stay in the side. But at present, we are going nowhere.

Yeah I agree if we have a coach who can make the decision without any bias then I will feel better about the decision. Despite the age difference I would rather see Symes go at years end.

Sorry for thread jacking and maybe I'm jumping at shadows but this comment:

"We've got a good young group and if they can stick together, they'll be a good young team in the years to come."

Worries me. It is the second time I've heard it this week (first was Dangerfield on Saturday night saying something along the lines of if this group can stay together for 3-4 years they will be good).

Always assumed that when your talking about your team mates playing together a player doesn't typically put that sort of qualification on that comment. Wouldn't a player's assumption be that the core of a good team coning up together would be sticking together?

I was under the assumption that quote had been trotted out multiple times in the media over the past year. I know Sloane came out last year & spoke about it in the aftermath of the Bock defection. Danger said something similar when he re-signed last year as well. Pretty sure Thompson has used it as well, it's just a line used especially with the threat of the GWS lurking.

Tippett also used it back in 2009 when he re-signed, believing we were on the verge of something great.

 

[Dujon11]

Sorry to harp on about it but it comes back to whomever the coach is.

If it's Neil Craig, you can be certain he will play and 2012 will be groundhog day.

If it's someone knew, with the withdrawal of a few other senior players (Symes, Reilly), this can make room for Doughty and Callahan to stay in the side. But at present, we are going nowhere.

I'm sorry if this is another negative post, but every aspect of the clubs and how it will move forward hinges on who is the coach next year.

For the record - I voted no.

Callahan??

I assume its Callinan your talking about. Grab a Record at the next game.

 

[Brasher]

Cheers.

Just sounds odd, is all.

 

[KUNG FU]

Depends on how many delistings/rookie upgrades we make. If we can comfortably make space for 4-5 senior list places after delisting and rookie upgrades (which I can't imagine being too hard), then I'd hold onto him. Otherwise, cut.

 

[ruscy002]

No.

32 year old one-dimensional defensive type keeping his spot as a tagger? Gimme a break.

32 year old one-dimensional defensive type half back flanker? Easiest position on the ground? Ditto.

No doubt he's a leader, but the problem with keeping guys on for the sake of leadership is that at some point their value as a leader outweighs their value as an on-field contributor. Then, you (should) end up with a 32 year old running around in the SANFL, which is just plain old bad list management.

Need a tagger? Give Riley a go. Need a half back flanker? Give Martin/Tambling/Smith/Petrenko etc. a go.

Nothing personal, just business. We are rebuilding/refurbishing/reupholstering/refreshing/revitalizing our list (whatever the club wants to call it).

 

[fourtheye]

I see no real harm in keeping him on the list, it's not like we're bursting at the seams with players on the veteran list. However, as long as his place in the starting 22 is based on the same criteria as to younger players, I have no problem with him continuing to be part of the club for another year.

 

[ruscy002]

I see no real harm in keeping him on the list, it's not like we're bursting at the seams with players on the veteran list. However, as long as his place in the starting 22 is based on the same criteria as to younger players, I have no problem with him continuing to be part of the club for another year.

As stated above, it will never be based on the same criteria. Keeping Doughty is a commitment to playing him when fit. This won't be like last year when Edwards was dropped for poor form, we still had Goody, Macca and Stevens on top of the leaders we have now.

 

[TheTonic]

No.
32 year old one-dimensional defensive type keeping his spot as a tagger? Gimme a break.

32 year old one-dimensional defensive type half back flanker? Easiest position on the ground? Ditto.

I don't care if he does or doesn't tbh but I think the statements made above are off the mark.

People said the role Stevens played as a defensive sweeper was the easiest spot to play. He goes down and we haven't had anyone come near the standard he set in that position.

Then people say tagging is the easiest position to play but then we can't seem to find anyone to contain anyone who gets off the leash.

Easy to say not easy to do.

 

[ruscy002]

I don't care if he does or doesn't tbh but I think the statements made above are off the mark.

People said the role Stevens played as a defensive sweeper was the easiest spot to play. He goes down and we haven't had anyone come near the standard he set in that position.

Then people say tagging is the easiest position to play but then we can't seem to find anyone to contain anyone who gets off the leash.

Easy to say not easy to do.

I didn't say anything about tagging being easy, that point was more about developing a ten year player for that role instead of gifting it to Doughty to add to the retirement fund. Seriously, what does the club gain from putting those 22 games into Doughty instead of someone else?

The easy HBF role was a little bit tongue in cheek. I kept insisting to certain posters that Petrenko was worth persisting with due to the glimpses of form he had shown when allowed to play off half back. The retort was always that HBF is the easiest spot to play on the ground, ergo whatever form Pets had shown there was irrelevant.

Either way, we have stacks of options to try out for HBF. Keeping Doughty for this role is the true definition of list clogging.

 

[Numinous]

Depends whether we can poach a big target in trade week or the draft.

If Doughty retires and both Stiffy and Rutten go on the veterans list it'd free up more salary cap, as you'd have to think they're both being paid more than Doughty.

BUT there's no point freeing up salary cap if it just means we're going to pay players that are playing shit even more than they're worth.

So if we can target a big name with big dollars, then Doughty can retire. Otherwise keep him, assuming that he ends the season 100% healthy - you don't want to be carrying injuries at his age.

 

[Bovo]

I voted No, but am second guessing my answer. If his body can handle the rigours of AFL or he can go in as a Sub next year, then maybe. I think we have been burnt from keeping guys a tad too long. That is not to say we should not keep them, but we must ask ourselves what they bring to our club.

He is a solid performer for us. Does his job, but I also think he may prevent another kid from getting a gig. The balance of seniors and kids is a balance, but having to play with a walking frame should be dissuaded

 

[conVINCEd]

I think he should retire at the end of the year.

I just can't see any benefit in him continuing.

We've got a bunch of young defenders/HB flankers who we need to sort out.

 

[Vader]

In the past I've always assumed that he was going to retire this year, based on talk about him struggling to get up for games last year and rumours that he had to be talked into playing on in 2011. That assumption would appear to be wrong, so I need to look at his situation more closely..

Firstly, I don't think his situation would change if another coach were appointed. We have a very inexperienced list already and I can't see any coach discarding a highly experienced player who is performing well, particularly given how many of our more senior players aren't playing to anywhere near the same standard.

It's not as if he's taking the place of a youngster. As of last week we had 10 players with less than 30 games in the team (11 with less than 50). If there's a kid who's willing to put his hand up in the SANFL (and there aren't any at present), then there are already plenty of opportunities for him to press his case.

What does Doughty have to offer? Quite a lot really.

Firstly, he has a vast experience which he can share with the youngsters around him in the team.

Secondly, he's our 4th best performed player this year - behind Thompson, Rutten & Johncock, well ahead of Tippett, Reilly, Douglas, VB, Jacobs and any of the youngsters. Based on this alone there's no justification for delisting him against his will.

Thirdly, he's durable - there's no indication that he's slowing down. He's played 80 of our last 82 games.

Fourthly, he's our best tagger - and none of the other options currently come close to matching what he offers. Lose him, and the opposition WILL score more goals as their most damaging player will find himself loose on far more occasions.

Fifthly, we have an abundance of dud players who have to be removed anyway - think Cook, Armstrong, Moran, Symes, Petrenko, Schmidt, Young, Sellar, Craig.. We can't get rid of them all this year as it is, given the weakness of the draft. By retaining Doughty we're able to bolster our list by removing one more of the spuds. Surely this is a good thing in and of itself?

I honestly can't see any valid argument for getting rid of him, unless you susbscribe to the truly farcical argment that "we're bottoming out, therefore all players aged 25+ should be lined up against a wall and shot" (OK, I may have used a little bit of hyperbole there).

If he does indeed want to play on in 2012, then the club should be doing everything it can to make it happen.

 

[ruscy002]

In the past I've always assumed that he was going to retire this year, based on talk about him struggling to get up for games last year and rumours that he had to be talked into playing on in 2011. That assumption would appear to be wrong, so I need to look at his situation more closely..

Firstly, I don't think his situation would change if another coach were appointed. We have a very inexperienced list already and I can't see any coach discarding a highly experienced player who is performing well, particularly given how many of our more senior players aren't playing to anywhere near the same standard.

It's not as if he's taking the place of a youngster. As of last week we had 10 players with less than 30 games in the team (11 with less than 50). If there's a kid who's willing to put his hand up in the SANFL (and there aren't any at present), then there are already plenty of opportunities for him to press his case.

What does Doughty have to offer? Quite a lot really.

Firstly, he has a vast experience which he can share with the youngsters around him in the team.

Secondly, he's our 4th best performed player this year - behind Thompson, Rutten & Johncock, well ahead of Tippett, Reilly, Douglas, VB, Jacobs and any of the youngsters. Based on this alone there's no justification for delisting him against his will.

Thirdly, he's durable - there's no indication that he's slowing down. He's played 80 of our last 82 games.

Fourthly, he's our best tagger - and none of the other options currently come close to matching what he offers. Lose him, and the opposition WILL score more goals as their most damaging player will find himself loose on far more occasions.

I honestly can't see any valid argument for getting rid of him, unless you susbscribe to the truly farcical argment that "we're bottoming out, therefore all players aged 25+ should be lined up against a wall and shot" (OK, I may have used a little bit of hyperbole there).

If he does indeed want to play on in 2012, then the club should be doing everything it can to make it happen.

He is most definitely our best tagger, but I'd really like to see us develop that attacking tagger that we've wanted since foolishly sending Shirley back to the SANFL to work on his "attacking" game.

 

[Lawrst]

Fifthly, we have an abundance of dud players who have to be removed anyway - think Cook, Armstrong, Moran, Symes, Petrenko, Schmidt, Young, Sellar, Craig.. We can't get rid of them all this year as it is, given the weakness of the draft.

Stop trolling.

 

[Big Sledge #32]

I honestly can't see any valid argument for getting rid of him, unless you susbscribe to the truly farcical argment that "we're bottoming out, therefore all players aged 25+ should be lined up against a wall and shot" (OK, I may have used a little bit of hyperbole there).

I agree with pretty much all of that (bar Petrenko ). As for arguments against the only one I can think of is salary cap space to be freed up by shifting one of Johncock/Rutten to the veterans list. Especially in the unlikely scenario of us landing a big fish in trade week (nigh on impossible at the moment).

All in all I support Doughty staying on.

 

[King Elvis]

Keep him, but not in our starting 21.