Should Harvey go?

[ROORAGE]

I am genuinely curious as to whether Freo people rate Harvey as a coach? From the outside looking in, he doesn't appear cut out to be a senior coach, as he clearly has the resources at his disposal, and the Dockers look to have some great young talent on their list. So what are his excuses? Is there any lingering resentment from Freo people that he didn't jump at the chance to coach the side when the chance arose? How do people rate his performance so far and is there a need to at least consider a new coach?

 

[malpaso]

STFU and concentrate on filling your Head Coaching role.

 

[ROORAGE]

STFU and concentrate on filling your Head Coaching role.

you're joking aren't you? it's a genuine query. don't you have an opinion?

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

I am genuinely curious as to whether Freo people rate Harvey as a coach? From the outside looking in, he doesn't appear cut out to be a senior coach, as he clearly has the resources at his disposal, and the Dockers look to have some great young talent on their list. So what are his excuses? Is there any lingering resentment from Freo people that he didn't jump at the chance to coach the side when the chance arose? How do people rate his performance so far and is there a need to at least consider a new coach?

expect criticism for this post roorage.

firstly, harvey gets points because he is a disciplianrian, thats one point in his favour, every other coach we have had have been soft as butter, harvey has the boys playing hard footy and disciplines those who wont pull the team line

second point, what resources does harvey have? he has a financial club, with a good home base, but other than that what does he have?... an all australian ruckman and key forward, and a a whole stack of promising kids, yes KIDS, so in playing stocks what has he got? he inherited a shizen list thanks to the previous administration, its equivelent to obama inheriting bush's mess.

thirdly, i dont think anyone could resent harvey for not jumping into the spot straight awaay, he just didnt want to be seen as being an opportunist, he got us a few great wins, and then accepted the job, who can resent that?

fourthly, why doesnt he appear to be cut out as a senior coach? because grand master flog grant thomas says so? he is the only coach we have ever had that has been brave enough to embark on a youth policy, we all know that to be successful you need to invest in youth, look at hawthorn, he is moulding these kids in his playing image, tough, relentless and committed footballers

fifthly, rhys palmer, ryan crowley, luke mcpharlin, antoni grover, des headland, paul hasleby, roger hayden, chris mayne...... all fantastic footballers, all have or will spend spend significant parts of this season or the last on the sidelines, in a young team that cant afford injuries what can harvey do about that?..... we may not have had the longest injury list (although it would be close) but we have had a serious amount of quality footballers on the sidelines

sixth, the schwabbolly factor... i dont care what anyone says, if you consistently trade top picks and then pick up duds with the few picks you do have, then any coach who inherits that is going to struggle, no coach could have gotten us any further in the last two years.

seventh, retirements, bell, mcmanus, black, carr, carr.... all hardened footballers with good records... all gone, experience lost, take simpson, harvey, pratt and jones out of your side and see how you fair... you would be fighting with melbourne for the spoon.

the fact is, is that harvey has had to deal with more than your standard retirements and injuries, yet he still perserveres with the kids, he still drops guys like peake who are senior players, he is presenting a message that the past wont be accepted, he is developing and recruiting talent into the list, his game day coaching is ok without being great, but he is developing that side too.... it is idiots like yourself who perpetrate that flog grant thomas's view without doing any research or having any real idea..... take a look at the whole picture before you speak utter crap on the fremantle board... if you want to see whether harves is doing a good job or not. read below

palmer, mayne, hinkley, broughton, suban, hill, pearce, deboer, pratt, walters with clarke, ruffles and ballantyne to come
playing better than ever before- sandilands, duffield, tarrant, schammer, ibbotson even scott thornton
to be delisted at years end- gilmore, browne, head, obrien... and if dodd, murphy, bradley, campbell, drum or a couple of others get it, then harvey will have done a better job than any of us could have imagined

enough said i think

 

[purplepassion82]

Simple answer - NO

He has chosen the much needed difficult path in re-building the side which has never been done in the history of fremantle. He has not traded away our picks and in the process looks to have picked up some real gems. His matchday performances are improving and he is clearly instilling his never-give in attitude to the troops. Experienced coach or not, the state of freo's list after CC left was never going to take us up the ladder. Harvey will and should get the time to develop and grow Fremantle football club into a competitive unit. Personally have confidence the man can do the job.

As you said, definitely an outsiders question and dont be surprised if you get some 'bitey' replies.

For more info, there has been numerous topics in the last 3 months discussing Harvey and his impact on our beloved Freo. I dont have the time to search for you, but I am sure it will answer your question.

 

[ROORAGE]

expect criticism for this post roorage.

firstly, harvey gets points because he is a disciplianrian, thats one point in his favour, every other coach we have had have been soft as butter, harvey has the boys playing hard footy and disciplines those who wont pull the team line

second point, what resources does harvey have? he has a financial club, with a good home base, but other than that what does he have?... an all australian ruckman and key forward, and a a whole stack of promising kids, yes KIDS, so in playing stocks what has he got? he inherited a shizen list thanks to the previous administration, its equivelent to obama inheriting bush's mess.

thirdly, i dont think anyone could resent harvey for not jumping into the spot straight awaay, he just didnt want to be seen as being an opportunist, he got us a few great wins, and then accepted the job, who can resent that?

fourthly, why doesnt he appear to be cut out as a senior coach? because grand master flog grant thomas says so? he is the only coach we have ever had that has been brave enough to embark on a youth policy, we all know that to be successful you need to invest in youth, look at hawthorn, he is moulding these kids in his playing image, tough, relentless and committed footballers

fifthly, rhys palmer, ryan crowley, luke mcpharlin, antoni grover, des headland, paul hasleby, roger hayden, chris mayne...... all fantastic footballers, all have or will spend spend significant parts of this season or the last on the sidelines, in a young team that cant afford injuries what can harvey do about that?..... we may not have had the longest injury list (although it would be close) but we have had a serious amount of quality footballers on the sidelines

sixth, the schwabbolly factor... i dont care what anyone says, if you consistently trade top picks and then pick up duds with the few picks you do have, then any coach who inherits that is going to struggle, no coach could have gotten us any further in the last two years.

seventh, retirements, bell, mcmanus, black, carr, carr.... all hardened footballers with good records... all gone, experience lost, take simpson, harvey, pratt and jones out of your side and see how you fair... you would be fighting with melbourne for the spoon.

the fact is, is that harvey has had to deal with more than your standard retirements and injuries, yet he still perserveres with the kids, he still drops guys like peake who are senior players, he is presenting a message that the past wont be accepted, he is developing and recruiting talent into the list, his game day coaching is ok without being great, but he is developing that side too.... it is idiots like yourself who perpetrate that flog grant thomas's view without doing any research or having any real idea..... take a look at the whole picture before you speak utter crap on the fremantle board

I'm not perpetuating anything, merely putting the question to people like yourself who actually care how Fremantle fares . I appreciate you taking the time to respond in depth, it's for that reason I put up the post- to get an insiders view. I should have expected the personal attacks as it merely diverts attention from the point of the question. Grant Thomas isn't the only one highlighting the 'job' Harvey is doing.....

 

[Jetau]

Harvey will coach out the remainder of his three year contract, no matter what our win/loss ratio looks like in that time. Whether he gets re-signed will depend on how much improvement we make next year. Sneaking into the finals would do it, I expect.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

I'm not perpetuating anything, merely putting the question to people like yourself who actually care how Fremantle fares . I appreciate you taking the time to respond in depth, it's for that reason I put up the post- to get an insiders view. I should have expected the personal attacks as it merely diverts attention from the point of the question. Grant Thomas isn't the only one highlighting the 'job' Harvey is doing.....

the problem is, is that we get people coming on here repeating the same things that thomas, or walls or whoever say in the media all the time.... the problem with that, is that neither thomas or walls know anything about our club.... did you know that a week ago tony shaw asked if the dockers had said that they are embarking on a youth policy, such a rediculous thing to say from a football comentator... most of the media attention we get is either ignorant, plain stupid or just west coast eagles BS...... the fact is, is that we are actually stoked that harvey isnt bowing to media pressure, we will still get the kids into the squad and laugh in 4 years time, and everyone will be talking up what a great job harvey did, because he took the hard road

 

[silverscope]

NO.


And if you don't want to be abused or taken as a complete idiot then why don't you take a look for other threads relating to this very discussion, one thread infact which is on the front page of the Fremantle Forum. Doesn't take long to have a look.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=445384

Read through that thread and you will find that majority want Harvey to stay. There will also be reasons for it.


Kthxbi!

 

[silverscope]

most of the media attention we get is either ignorant, plain stupid or just west coast eagles BS......

Generally its the first one. The next two depend on who is writing the article But i do agree.

 

[Kram]

I think North Melbourne should go.

 

[j0nni]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

there's my answer

 

[Sman-21]

No troll

I think harvey will still be coaching freo when North melbourne is no longer in the AFL.
So what will it be? will nth melb merge or will they just dissapear altogether?

 

[The Night Shift]

ROORAGE

You're question will get some heat because we get asked the same question over and over again and no one bothers to listen to our answer.
Unfortuately, being the only team not to win a premiership we attract a fair few morons and reverse trolls to our board. If we are not copping stupid threads about sacking Harvey and recruiting Leigh Matthews or that we should target, trade for and recruit broken down hacks or some other stupid scenario that is presented by some 'fan'... well you just get sick of it.
Anyone would've thought we're the club whose tanked for the best part of a decade, declared we're coming, had a massive secret drug culture and players doing what they want and losing 2 premiership captains in a season or losing a string of players due to discipline.
Weare the club who has to wear the stupidity of some of the Schwab/Connolly trades....
I dont personally have anything against the Roos apart from that little Pratt dobbing in Farmer a few years back, but I'd say thats a perspective thing. You really should've gone to the gold coast though. Considering they have kept clubs like that Carlton filth afloat it's just wrong that your club is facing extinction.

 

[Freeeoo]

No troll

I think harvey will still be coaching freo when North melbourne is no longer in the AFL.
So what will it be? will nth melb merge or will they just dissapear altogether?

Who cares???

 

[dominguez]

From the outside looking in, he doesn't appear cut out to be a senior coach, as he clearly has the resources at his disposal

What resources do you mean, players or money/facilities?

If you're referring to quality players we basically have Pavlich, Tarrant, Sandilands, Hayden (injured), Palmer (injured), Hasleby then a bunch of mediocre players and more than a dozen kids. The playing depth simply isn't there.

People like Caroline Wilson, Grant Thomas and yourself need to understand that.

the Dockers look to have some great young talent on their list.

How many games do you expect first year players to win for the club? Last time I checked Saint Kilda and Geelong were'nt dominating because of their kids.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Talking about Brent Harvey, aren't we? Time for youth policy.

 

[Godzke]

I don't think he should go but I had a feeling he wouldn't be a successful coach when appointed. Reason I say this is because he's spent too long under Sheedy, and while he's a smart tactician in his own right, his general policies towards the club and its direction echo sheedy's sentiment of recycling used players.

This is the first real season for him with a young group now that most of the senior players have gone. I know some of you might think "tarrant"? "solomon"? "johnson? But, none have been particularly brilliant picks up and now serve a more important role as being senior mentors to a developing group rather than huge contributers themselves. Which is important, don't get me wrong, but at what cost has that come at with trades??

I worry for freo as they're in the early stages of rebuilding (like North Melbourne after this year), and will struggle to get the good kids to go west once the GC17 start hogging the picks from next year.

 

[dominguez]

This is the first real season for him with a young group now that most of the senior players have gone. I know some of you might think "tarrant"? "solomon"? "johnson? But, none have been particularly brilliant picks up and now serve a more important role as being senior mentors to a developing group rather than huge contributers themselves. Which is important, don't get me wrong, but at what cost has that come at with trades??.

Tarrant and Solomon were brought to the club when Connolly was coach.

 

[Godzke]

Tarrant and Solomon were brought to the club when Connolly was coach.

well my main point is that you need to move away from recyclying players from other clubs and start bringing them up through the ranks, which i guess harvery is now doing.

 

[estibador]

I don't think he should go but I had a feeling he wouldn't be a successful coach when appointed. Reason I say this is because he's spent too long under Sheedy, and while he's a smart tactician in his own right, his general policies towards the club and its direction echo sheedy's sentiment of recycling used players.

This is the first real season for him with a young group now that most of the senior players have gone. I know some of you might think "tarrant"? "solomon"? "johnson? But, none have been particularly brilliant picks up and now serve a more important role as being senior mentors to a developing group rather than huge contributers themselves. Which is important, don't get me wrong, but at what cost has that come at with trades??

i) Johnson is the only one of those 3 recruited by Harves

ii) Tarrant is the only one who cost anything substantial and he is serving a far more important role than merely being a 'mentor'. In fact he is one of the best fullbacks in the AFL at the moment and is a crucial part of our team. And (ironically enough in the context of this thread) his resurgence as a footballer of quality is all thanks to Harvey.

iii) Your fears of Harvey being too hung up on recycled players are absurd considering he is the first coach we've ever had who has embarked on a deliberate rebuilding campaign with youth through the draft.

 

[Jetau]

I don't think he should go but I had a feeling he wouldn't be a successful coach when appointed. Reason I say this is because he's spent too long under Sheedy, and while he's a smart tactician in his own right, his general policies towards the club and its direction echo sheedy's sentiment of recycling used players.

This is the first real season for him with a young group now that most of the senior players have gone. I know some of you might think "tarrant"? "solomon"? "johnson? But, none have been particularly brilliant picks up and now serve a more important role as being senior mentors to a developing group rather than huge contributers themselves. Which is important, don't get me wrong, but at what cost has that come at with trades??

I worry for freo as they're in the early stages of rebuilding (like North Melbourne after this year), and will struggle to get the good kids to go west once the GC17 start hogging the picks from next year.

Fail.

The Tarrant trade was poor, I'll admit, but that was before Harvey's time in the top job. Solomon and Johnson were got for next to nothing, so they didn't cost us much.

In fact, it's been a fair few years since we traded away our draft picks (Tarrant was the last time, I believe) and look what's happening now - short term pain, long term gain.

Ibbotson made his debut in 2007, and since then we've added Palmer, Mayne, Hinkley (not sold on this one), Hill, Suban, Broughton, DeBoer, Pearce, Walters, with Ballantyne and two or three others to come.

Over the next 1 1/2 years, I think the club needs to retire, trade or delist most or all of the following:

RETIRE END 2010

Solomon (will retire end of 2010, you'd think)
Grover (retire end 2010)
Headland (retire end 2010)
Hayden (doubt he will last past age 30 - end of 2010 season)

TRADE/DELIST

Dodd (crab - third round pick will do)
Murphy (delist)
Gilmore (delist)
Browne (delist)
Drum (delist)
Head (delist)

That's 10 players that will either be gone or the wrong side of 30 in eighteen months. This year will be the last untainted draft, and you'd think we'd feature highly in it, but it will take that and the 2010 draft to fully turn over the list.

I would re-sign Harvey after 2010 even if we don't make the finals next year, so long as there is some improvement in 2010 and we continue the 'aggressive rebuild' model.

Give him two more years at the end of 2010.

 

[Godzke]

Fail.

The Tarrant trade was poor, I'll admit, but that was before Harvey's time in the top job. Solomon and Johnson were got for next to nothing, so they didn't cost us much.

In fact, it's been a fair few years since we traded away our draft picks (Tarrant was the last time, I believe) and look what's happening now - short term pain, long term gain.

Ibbotson made his debut in 2007, and since then we've added Palmer, Mayne, Hinkley (not sold on this one), Hill, Suban, Broughton, DeBoer, Pearce, Walters, with Ballantyne and two or three others to come.

Over the next 1 1/2 years, I think the club needs to retire, trade or delist most or all of the following:

RETIRE END 2010

Solomon (will retire end of 2010, you'd think)
Grover (retire end 2010)
Headland (retire end 2010)
Hayden (doubt he will last past age 30 - end of 2010 season)

TRADE/DELIST

Dodd (crab - third round pick will do)
Murphy (delist)
Gilmore (delist)
Browne (delist)
Drum (delist)
Head (delist)

That's 10 players that will either be gone or the wrong side of 30 in eighteen months. This year will be the last untainted draft, and you'd think we'd feature highly in it, but it will take that and the 2010 draft to fully turn over the list.

I would re-sign Harvey after 2010 even if we don't make the finals next year, so long as there is some improvement in 2010 and we continue the 'aggressive rebuild' model.

Give him two more years at the end of 2010.

how is it a fail post?

you've just said it yourself that you're looking at churning 10 or so players off the list. you think you're going to get anything out of the 2010 draft? Gold Coast (if memory serves me well) are getting picks 1,2,3,5,7 (or something absolutely ridiculous).

It takes a fair amount of time to rebuild a squad ... multiply that by 2 now the GC17 are getting some major concessions for the next 3 or so years.

 

[DockerNJL]

I am genuinely curious as to whether Freo people rate Harvey as a coach? From the outside looking in, he doesn't appear cut out to be a senior coach, as he clearly has the resources at his disposal, and the Dockers look to have some great young talent on their list. So what are his excuses? Is there any lingering resentment from Freo people that he didn't jump at the chance to coach the side when the chance arose? How do people rate his performance so far and is there a need to at least consider a new coach?

Ban this looser,
how close did you dumb bludging ***** get to geelong????
cmon pal find something else to worry about,
like keeping NMFC aflout.
(i do like NMFC but not idiots that represent like you that make great supporters look bad)

ps 119 to 49 before you look it up.

please dont give me crap about been a genuine question when your clear intent is to troll.
plenty of threads on hear on our thoughts on harvs so look it up,
search function at top of page.

 

[DockerNJL]

well my main point is that you need to move away from recyclying players from other clubs and start bringing them up through the ranks, which i guess harvery is now doing.

Harvey - 2 years in charge = no trades.

Yes we recycled 2 players in johnson + bradley but at what cost?

SFA really.