List Mgmt. Should The Eagles Request A Priority Assistance Package at The End of This Year?

[Dom sheed pocket]

No it's not, there is no formula.

Stop making s**t up.



They said that last year. If we go worse, they won't be saying it again. Vic media are already beating the jungle drums.



There's no 'jumping' the gun, he was coming OOC and an A-grade defender. You don't just cash players in every time they come up for FA.



Quite possibly.

Also, how is the club going to know they would finish 17th in 2022?

Crystal ball?

Sounds like the club needs to employ a psychic more than anything else.

They can read the tea leaves and direct the club's list management strategies mving forward.
.

It was clear by March when covid ripped through the club we were in for a tough year.

We had already openly stated that we were “transitioning the list” at that stage.

Why not wait and see when it comes to the single piece of draft capital on your list.

Unfortunately we never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

 

[bzparkes]

Happy to accept your apology now

“Under the new system, which will come into effect this year, a more complicated formula will be used, which takes into account premiership points, percentage, finals appearances and injury rates for a club over several seasons.”

AFL overhauls priority pick system

The AFL will scrap its priority draft pick system and replace it with a newer version which makes it much harder for clubs to gain extra selections.

amp.theage.com.au

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That article's from 12 years ago, when clubs like Carlton, Melbourne, etc were tanking and asking for PPs after one bad season.

No apology forthcoming.

 

[bzparkes]

It was clear by March when covid ripped through the club we were in for a tough year.

We had already openly stated that we were “transitioning the list” at that stage.

Why not wait and see when it comes to the single piece of draft capital on your list.

Unfortunately we never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Simpson started the talking about 'rejuvenating' the list around the bye in 2021.

You clearly haven't been paying attention.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

That article's from 12 years ago, when clubs like Carlton, Melbourne, etc were tanking and asking for PPs after a bad season.

No apology forthcoming.

It’s the same system that is in place now. It hasn’t changed since then.

What’s clear is you don’t even know how priority system works.

Go have a read and learn the basics, mate.

 

[eaglesfan84]

I don't like the pessimistic nature of the thread. Why not wait until midseason at least?

I love the guy that believes in miracles, they're right once in a while, like a broken clock.

 

[bzparkes]

It’s the same system that is in place now. It hasn’t changed since then.

What’s clear is you don’t even know how priority system works.

Go have a read and learn the basics, mate.

I think you'll find that came about after Melbourne requests a PP off the back of winning 6 games in a spoon year.

What's also clear is that you are hung up on the 'last won a flag' metric and have failed to take into account any of the other metrics associated with a 12 year old article.

 

[the harry]

And most importantly, Geelong did not overestimate their list. They knew where they were at relative to the competition, and traded/drafted appropriately, culminating in a premiership. In contrast, we held onto the delusion our list was able to compete (until this year as indicated in multiple "get the band back together" themed interviews with Simpson), and so our list is in complete dissaray.

Geelong got 700 games and 800 goals from pick 7 and a third(?) Round pick in 2007.

Thats stuff you can't predict. Imagine NicNat and Shuey playing well for another 5 years and being fit.

Sir they may have managed some things well, but a lot of just luck.

2006 sorry

 

[Barrybran]

It's in the AFLs best interest to provide us assistance with priority picks on the proviso they are traded off.

We stink. Our skills are some of the worst i've seen in a long time. Fundamentals such as kicking, hand balling and marking are all below AFL standard.

Forget for a second how hard it is to be a supporter atm (because the AFL don't care) and consider how much this hurts the AFL too.

We are awful to watch which in turn affects

• Broadcast numbers (advertising, subsription)

• Attendance both home and away (particularly away which means ticket sales, lost revenue for smaller clubs)

• AFL Branding and merchandise. All of which the AFL gets it's cut.

We should be given a leg up to recruit 3 to 4 24-26 year olds to help stabilize the list.

Premature retirements, bad drafting & trading, monumental injury list..... all these things have contributed and assistance is there to help a club when the situation becomes dire.

I think it's pretty dire.

I'm not a fan of priority picks but this is what I see happening for the reasons you've mentioned

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Simpson started the talking about 'rejuvenating' the list around the bye in 2021.

You clearly haven't been paying attention.

Yes, you’re right! It was around the bye in 2021 when Simmo started talking about rejuvenating the list.

Barrass was contracted until 2022 at which point he was to become a free agent.

Sydney came knocking in 2021, we freaked out and instead of waiting and seeing what 2022 looked like, we jumped the shark and re-signed him for 5 years in December 2021 while still having a year to run.

So unfortunately, you’re wrong again my friend.

 

[MaxHunt]

Where's that resident poster gone who claims to be part of the WCE team. The one who only states after the fact information and disappears when things aren't going well? What does he have to say about what's going on?

 

[bzparkes]

Yes, you’re right! It was around the bye in 2021 when Simmo started talking about rejuvenating the list.

Barrass was contracted until 2022 at which point he was to become a free agent.

Sydney came knocking in 2021, we freaked out and instead of waiting and seeing what 2022 looked like, we jumped the shark and re-signed him for 5 years in December 2021 while still having a year to run.

So unfortunately, you’re wrong again my friend.

View attachment 1946416

Oh no, A-grade defender, in the prime of his career, rejects FA to stay at WCE because ignorant pundits on a forum think any player worth capital should've been traded, 3 years later with the benefit of hindsight.

Just trade out every A-grader a year before free-agency, if that's the case. You'll forever be in a perpetual state of rebuild but you'll be getting those juicy draft picks.

Who cares about culture, AmIRite?

 

[ROO DOGG]

It makes perfect sense. I don’t think a club who won a flag 6 years ago, gets to engage in complete incompetence and mismanagement of their list and then get a hand out from AFL.

Why have freo had more top 10 picks? Because they’ve actively engaged in the trading system to generate more picks.

Clubs move players on all the time. Players request trades all the time. It’s a business and professional sporting comp.

Collingwood basically moved Ginnivan on. Hawthorn moved on O’Meara and Mitchell - which helped them get Weddle.

Bulldogs moved on their vice captain, Hunter.

I’ll ask you this. Do you think signing Barrass was in the best interests of the club long term?

Many on here over-indulge our players almost as much as simmo. “We trade him, he’s from WA”. They’re professional athletes on hundreds of thousands of dollars. That’s the exact mentality that has led the club to where it is.

Clubs need to do what is in their best interest.

Do you actually think Freo traded their players because they wanted too? Just proves how delusional you are. Freo have been rebuilding way longer than they would have wanted because they have poor player retention rates. Please dont use Freo as an example of how we should rebuild.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Oh no, A-grade defender, in the prime of his career, rejects FA to stay at WCE because ignorant pundits on a forum think any player worth capital should've been traded, 3 years later with the benefit of hindsight.

Just trade out every A-grader a year before free-agency, if that's the case. You'll forever be in a perpetual state of rebuild but you'll be getting those juicy draft picks.

Who cares about culture, AmIRite?

See, now that you’ve been caught out twice without knowing what you’re talking about your last resort is sarcasm.

Why would we trade him a year out from FA? Hold him for 2022 and once it becomes clear where having a rough year - which was early in 2022, let him explore free agency.

Bam. Tom Barrass for top 3.

Sorry to break it to you, that’s what a rebuild is. It’s trading capital you do have for picks to take to the draft.

The reality is you can not rebuild without additional draft picks and some savvy trading.

You speak of culture. But what’s the culture at our club in the last 3 years?

Rock up from pre-season in any state you like. Get paid big bucks, don’t perform, and there be zero consequences for that.

Yes, let’s make sure we retain our culture.

 

[Icanwalk]

We were competing for a premiership.

Players s**t the bed in the last 3 games of '19, otherwise it's entirely possibly we'd have had a chance to go B2B.



Again, all this is being said with the benefit of hindsight.

When you have the potential trade-off of losing an AA winger(Gaff) for pick 19, would you take it?

No, you wouldn't, especially when you've just won a flag.

Not absolving the list management team of any particular guilt but rotating list managers, due to Covid cuts no less, would've made it challenging to have a clear and consistent strategy to continue to build the list.

Not having any access to the top 10 for over a decade(bar the Sheed pick swap) has also left the middle-aged playing group bereft of talent, hence how lopsided the list is with the age profile.

We were indeed competing in 2018 and 2019. By 2020 the ship had sailed. The Jackson trade was at the end of 2022. Only now at the end of 2024, 5 years after our window shut, will we be in a position to make a play for quality departing players. This missed opportunity is on the back of poor list magement.

I wanted to keep Gaff, as almost everyone did, but not on a 6-year term (after triggers achieved). On the otherhand, I was opposed to the Kelly trade at the time, not thinking he was worth the 2 first rounders floated, let alone the additional early 2nd and 3rd we gave up, particularly in a deep draft at a time the list needed an injection of youth.

It is not entirely hindsight. The structural issues on our list were clear as far back as 2019. We drove headfirst over the cliff (much like Richmond have now done). No one could have predicted covid, and it certainly accelerated these issues, but by putting all our eggs in one basket, we exposed ourself in the event of a downturn.

Rotating list managers, and consolidaring it with recruitment is on us. We did not prioritise list management.

 

[ROO DOGG]

Where's that resident poster gone who claims to be part of the WCE team. The one who only states after the fact information and disappears when things aren't going well? What does he have to say about what's going on?

Check the Essendon board.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

After our home stint in 2020 I remember us being one of the favourites after a deplorable first hub.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Do you actually think Freo traded their players because they wanted too? Just proves how delusional you are. Freo have been rebuilding way longer than they would have wanted because they have poor player retention rates. Please dont use Freo as an example of how we should rebuild.

I would love to be where Freo are right now, personally.

We don’t need to use Freo.

We can use Collingwood 2020. Being agressive in 2020, taking the short term pain, all the criticism about “culture” etc. prelim and flag.

Hawks moved on players when it became
Clear they’re rebuilding, and because of that, they’ve added additional layers to their list.

I’m sorry, but those who think you just standby and not try to move pieces you have on your list are living in the past.

 

[mattyc75]

Busslinger cost the Dogs pick 13 and he's had 3 years quality development in the VFL, which has probably been worth more than if he'd spent 3 years here playing in the firsts. Pick 19 would be some deal.

Dogs also have an abundance of talls they have to pay and play. They'll have to move some of their KPFs to the backline at some stage

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bzparkes]

See, now that you’ve been caught out twice without knowing what you’re talking about your last resort is sarcasm.

Why would we trade him a year out from FA? Hold him for 2022 and once it becomes clear where having a rough year - which was early in 2022, let him explore free agency.

Bam. Tom Barrass for top 3.

Sorry to break it to you, that’s what a rebuild is. It’s trading capital you do have for picks to take to the draft.

The reality is you can not rebuild without additional draft picks and some savvy trading.

You speak of culture. But what’s the culture at our club in the last 3 years?

Rock up from pre-season in any state you like. Get paid big bucks, don’t perform, and there be zero consequences for that.

Yes, let’s make sure we retain our culture.

Again, decisions are far easier with the benefit of hindsight, which you have now in 2024.

Trading out A-grade players for draft picks, when you believe you're in a position to challenge, is sheer stupidity.

The benefit of hindsight tells us the decision now appears wrong but it wasn't clear at the time.

We've also be in a far worse hole if Barrass was traded out, as we'd only have the perennially injured McGovern and HEdwards to rely on.

We'd currently be losing by 100+ every week, pick 3 or not.

 

[briztoon]

Duggan easily could have gotten as at worst a pick after our 2nd would have been 24 on draft night in 2022.

Which is band 3 compensation.

Maybe you need to go and look at the players drafted from pick 24 and after in the 2022 draft.

Whether or not Barrass wanted to leave in 2022, signing him in 2021 before seeing how 2022 played out is mismanagement.

Every club hopes to re-sign their guns before their restricted free agency year. Unless your list management team actually want them to walk for the compo pick.

And the players you are talking about were 26 at the time, smack bang in the age group where you've got very, very few best 22 quality players.

We could have had pick 3 and 24 in 2022 on top of what we already had, for the cost of Barrass and Duggan. Any supporter would sit in a time machine and accept that outcome at that time.

What you are suggesting is doing a North and facing a 10 year rebuild.

Yes it would have made us worse in 2023, but we were already a 2 win side in 2023 so it’s much of a muchness.

It's making you worse for the next 5 years, not just 1 year.

I like how we essentially agree the players are the problem, and yet seem to arrive at different conclusions as to how the club should have acted or assessment of the decisions they did end up committing to.

The players who were the problem, were the senior players who complained about the 2020 hub, but that was compounded by the club going public about it.

Then by the end of 2021, none of those senor players had any trade value, and you are where you are.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Again, decisions are far easier with the benefit of hindsight, which you have now in 2024.

Trading out A-grade players for draft picks, when you believe you're in a position to challenge, is sheer stupidity.

The benefit of hindsight tells us the decision now appears wrong but it wasn't clear at the time.

We've also be in a far worse hole if Barrass was traded out, as we'd only have the perennially injured McGovern and HEdwards to rely on.

We'd currently be losing by 100+ every week, pick 3 or not.

the club itself stated we were in a position of transitioning the list.

This is the art of list management. Knowing and understanding where the list is at.

It’s one thing to say in Mr hindsight .

I’m saying the club should have known these things, and should have been more cautious with extending Barrass.

It was a missed opportunity we will not get again.

 

[bzparkes]

We were indeed competing in 2018 and 2019. By 2020 the ship had sailed. The Jackson trade was at the end of 2022. Only now at the end of 2024, 5 years after our window shut, will we be in a position to make a play for quality departing players. This missed opportunity is on the back of poor list magement.

Covid and an unprecedented injury crisis made it difficult at the time to properly assess where the team was at.

People also massively underestimate the lost development period for draftees during the Covid years, both pre and post-draft.

I wanted to keep Gaff, as almost everyone did, but not on a 6-year term (after triggers achieved). On the otherhand, I was opposed to the Kelly trade at the time, not thinking he was worth the 2 first rounders floated, let alone the additional early 2nd and 3rd we gave up, particularly in a deep draft at a time the list needed an injection of youth.

I wasn't a huge fan of the Kelly trade either. The club should've bent Geelong over but unfortunately, Freo were below us on the ladder.

It would've been a bad look to other potential players if we committed to bringing in Kelly 2 years in a row and failed to do so.

It is not entirely hindsight. The structural issues on our list were clear as far back as 2019. We drove headfirst over the cliff (much like Richmond have now done). No one could have predicted covid, and it certainly accelerated these issues, but by putting all our eggs in one basket, we exposed ourself in the event of a downturn.

Injuries to key players, more than anything(fitness related? Lack of want?) probably contributed to being unable to contend when we should've. Did the players also lack desire after 2018? Quite possibly. I don't think the club was necessarily wrong to chase Kelly for another crack, he polled top 5 in the Brownlow from memory that year.

Rotating list managers, and consolidaring it with recruitment is on us. We did not prioritise list management.

I agree on this part. Dunno why the club didn't just pay overs and accept the soft cap penalty instead of half-assing it between Nisbett and O'Brien.

Arrogance on Nisbett's part seems the likeliest scenario.

 

[Icanwalk]

Geelong got 700 games and 800 goals from pick 7 and a third(?) Round pick in 2007.

Thats stuff you can't predict. Imagine NicNat and Shuey playing well for another 5 years and being fit.

Sir they may have managed some things well, but a lot of just luck.

2006 sorry

Sure, luck plays a role. Geelong's older brigade also benefit from not needing to travel every week.

But our injury woes have more to do with the U-shaped profile of our list coinciding with the necessity of transitioning to a high-intensity gameplan. Again, this was within our control. With a healthier list profile, I have little doubt we would have extracted much more quality games between Shuey, Nic Nat and co.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

What you are suggesting is doing a North and facing a 10 year rebuild.

.

This is exactly where we are at anyway.

 

[Rowan18]

Happy to accept your apology now

“Under the new system, which will come into effect this year, a more complicated formula will be used, which takes into account premiership points, percentage, finals appearances and injury rates for a club over several seasons.”

AFL overhauls priority pick system

The AFL will scrap its priority draft pick system and replace it with a newer version which makes it much harder for clubs to gain extra selections.

amp.theage.com.au

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That article makes it sound like we're a lock for priority picks. The changes are to avoid clubs getting one after one bad season. We're likely to have 3 in a row with less than 4 wins. Under the old system, we would have pick 1 and 2 last year and probably pick 1 and 2 this year as well.