Sidebottom's Kicking

[TradeDraft]

I noticed this Lately where his Kicks Fall Short of the Mark.

Like saturday's game where he got the Ball 3 Times and each kick fell short.

Is this worry?

 

[PremierPie13]

I did notice this on the weekend; Steele doesn't seem to have the most penetration in his kicking but his accuracy for pinpoint passes on both sides more than makes up for it. Don't be phased Dave he'll be a star.

 

[Dundalis]

It's only a worry for people that ever thought Sidebottom was an elite kick of the footy. AFAIC Sidebottom is a good kick, but not much more. As such he has his ups and downs with it. He also has terrible depth in his kicking, his limit is probably around about 45m (with no helping breeze).

I remember people on this board saying how his depth would improve significantly as he got older and stronger, but it hasn't improved at all.

 

[abs_of_STEELE]

He's never been a great kick anyway, and Saturday was the first time I noticed so let's not get worried about it! See how he goes the next few weeks.

 

[TradeDraft]

I did notice this on the weekend; Steele doesn't seem to have the most penetration in his kicking but his accuracy for pinpoint passes on both sides more than makes up for it. Don't be phased Dave he'll be a star.

I think he is a Gun and his Vision and Decision Making is Fantastic

 

[jonbe54]

It's only a worry for people that ever thought Sidebottom was an elite kick of the footy. AFAIC Sidebottom is a good kick, but not much more. As such he has his ups and downs with it. He also has terrible depth in his kicking, his limit is probably around about 45m (with no helping breeze).

I remember people on this board saying how his depth would improve significantly as he got older and stronger, but it hasn't improved at all.

Tony Shaw couldn't "kick over a jam tin" as they said but he is a decorated and respected premiership captain that broke our drought. Steele is a much more gifted player skill wise. There's no cause for alarm or criticism, he'll be fine.

 

[Quicky]

Dundalis is right. His kicking has never had great penetration and I doubt it ever will. He is also inconsistent in his execution. He does have the skill and guts to execute some pretty high risk short to mid range field kicks and is probably our best crumber. I don't think this is anything to really worry about. I just hope his consistency gets a bit better.

Anyone else notice he has a very unusual ball drop. It is very high. I think this is probably the reason for his inconsistency. Too late to unteach it though and he seems to make it work anyway.

 

[Dundalis]

Tony Shaw couldn't "kick over a jam tin" as they said but he is a decorated and respected premiership captain that broke our drought. Steele is a much more gifted player skill wise. There's no cause for alarm or criticism, he'll be fine.

Never said he's not a solid player, just not an elite kick.

Tony Shaw might have been a respected captain, but as a player he was the definition of the word battler. All effort and little skill. Still a solid player, but he would struggle to get a game in today's AFL.

The problem with Sidebottom as I see it, is he plays a lackadaisical style like Pendlebury, but he's not as skilled. He may have very good awareness and good vision, but his actual skill level sometimes doesn't match up with that and it can make him look particularly sloppy.

 

[jonbe54]

Never said he's not a solid player, just not an elite kick.

Tony Shaw might have been a respected captain, but as a player he was the definition of the word battler. All effort and little skill. Still a solid player, but he would struggle to get a game in today's AFL.

The problem with Sidebottom as I see it, is he plays a lackadaisical style like Pendlebury, but he's not as skilled. He may have very good awareness and good vision, but his actual skill level sometimes doesn't match up with that and it can make him look particularly sloppy.

Totally agree he is far from an elite kick but we can't all play first violin in the orchestra. As for Shaw I'd describe him as all HEART and little skill, that sort of passion will always find a place to express itself Dundalis, it is the FIRST and most important attribute to any team game, to play with passion for the team. Skill isn't everything, commitment and desire for the contest is a fire that can't be quenched in some. Look at our captain - cast aside repeatedly in his junior career - Look at Luke Ball - small, not a penetrating kick, slow - am I making sense here? Passion of that type will always find a way and it can't be taught or trained.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Sidebottom's kicking skills have always been a bit of a myth. He is quite strong on non-prefered relative to his prefered (which is probably seen incorrectly as a proxy for elite kicking skills), but his kicking skills overall are only around a 7 out of 10.

I should note, his left foot is far more accurate than his right (and has a much more sound technique to be honest...)

 

[vjknight]

dave - can i assume you started this after watching a replay of saturdays game ?

the wind, like it often is at the G, was deceptive and caused a lot of misdirected kicks.

maybe one way to solve the problem is to move to etihad

 

[TradeDraft]

Sidebottom's kicking skills have always been a bit of a myth. He is quite strong on non-prefered relative to his prefered (which is probably seen incorrectly as a proxy for elite kicking skills), but his kicking skills overall are only around a 7 out of 10.

I should note, his left foot is far more accurate than his right (and has a much more sound technique to be honest...)

Well he is a Good to Above Average Kick but still can be very effective

 

[TradeDraft]

dave - can i assume you started this after watching a replay of saturdays game ?

the wind, like it often is at the G, was deceptive and caused a lot of misdirected kicks.

maybe one way to solve the problem is to move to etihad

Actually I been Noticing for most the the Season he can do this time to time mostly on the Longer Kicks

 

[Optimax]

His kicking often falls short, this isn't a new thing

 

[mdc]

16 goal assists from 38 inside-50's, which is just about the best in the league. His kicking has been off the last couple of weeks, but over the season it's been very good.

 

[Optimax]

16 goal assists from 38 inside-50's, which is just about the best in the league. His kicking has been off the last couple of weeks, but over the season it's been very good.

Generally chooses the right target, well nearly always

His kicking, especially at a target further then 40m away he still chips and they bounce in front.

 

[DWil6]

16 goal assists from 38 inside-50's, which is just about the best in the league. His kicking has been off the last couple of weeks, but over the season it's been very good.

Where does one get such stats?

 

[mdc]

Generally chooses the right target, well nearly always.

I tend to include the ability to choose the right target when talking about kicking.

Where does one get such stats?

footywire, otherwise just go to the club website.

 

[stui magpie]

He may not have a lot of penetration but can hit a target inside 40 with either foot with ridiculous ease.

the kid is a gun. I'd much rather focus on what he does well than on perceived weaknesses.

 

[the distributer]

His kicking had been pathetic for a few weeks now, he's better than that.

 

[TradeDraft]

Generally chooses the right target, well nearly always

His kicking, especially at a target further then 40m away he still chips and they bounce in front.

Well at least when it falls short he kicks it to their Advantage Most of the Time

 

[shawthing09]

Makes good enough decisions to make up for it.

I have always thought goal assist to inside 50 ratio is the best way to gather how good someones kicking is. The numbers above are exceptional. Whilst his overall kicking may not be elite the fact is his decision making makes up for it, his use of the ball is very good in general.

Considering most of our forwards are good below their knees (Dawes especially) you would rather him turf the kick slightly than kick it straight over the leading players head.

As others have correctly pointed out though his kicking (amongst other things) was greatly over-rated before we drafted him.

 

[Soul_Pie]

Yeah, his penetration isn't that great but his decision making and vision are second to none. Maybe his leg strength isn't that great and is something that needs to be worked on?

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

16 goal assists from 38 inside-50's, which is just about the best in the league. His kicking has been off the last couple of weeks, but over the season it's been very good.

This stat ratio can be ridiculously misleading. In fact it's meaningless.

Who's to say that Steele gets the majority of his goal assists from inside 50's? The stat you want is "proportion of inside 50s resulting in goals." To automatically relate inside 50's to goal assists ignores way too many variables, especially for a player who doesn't often attempt long range set-ups. A player could theoretically have 38 inside 50's, none of which equate to goal assists but still have 16 goals assists from short kicks from already inside 50, short handballs, handballs over the top, setups to players who kick goals from outside 50, etc.

Beams was the best in the league at "proportion of inside 50s resulting in goals" last year and this is a far more meaningful stat.

Sidebottom is not a very good kick of the football (in terms of penetration, speed, depth or trajectory) but he is amazingly creative by foot which means the majority of his kicks are constructive. He is the opposite of Rhys Shaw. I think Sidebottom is going to be a very good footballer but I think he needs to think quicker a lot of the time. He generally makes great decisions but often takes to long to make them. I can't count the number of times I've seen Steele mark it on the wing and instead of moving it on quickly to an obvious option while our forward line is option, he stops, waits and doesn't dispose of it until the opposition zones up in front of him. He does this often and it kills our momentum.

 

[mdc]

This stat ratio can be ridiculously misleading. In fact it's meaningless.

Who's to say that Steele gets the majority of his goal assists from inside 50's? The stat you want is "proportion of inside 50s resulting in goals." To automatically relate inside 50's to goal assists ignores way too many variables, especially for a player who doesn't often attempt long range set-ups. A player could theoretically have 38 inside 50's, none of which equate to goal assists but still have 16 goals assists from short kicks from already inside 50, short handballs, handballs over the top, setups to players who kick goals from outside 50, etc.

A player could theoretically, but it's very unlikely in practice. That said, your objection is a valid one, just not so far as to render the stat "meaningless".

The inside 50 retention stat has it's own problems (namely, the best way to retain the football is a long kick into the pocket to no-one). Plus it's not actually available to the public.

As I've said before, AFL stats are still incredibly primitive, and pretty much all of them are misleading to some degree.