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Small forward top 10

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Lingsface

Lingsface

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I would like to go through each position and name top 10 players in order. I will start with my top 10 small forwards. Follow with your thoughts and your own top 10. I have not included Leigh Matthews as I put him as a midfielder.

10- Mark Le Cras
A great small forward who had a very consistent successful career. Great overhead for his size and a beautiful kick of the football. Played with the top teams of 06 and 18 and had some lean years in between from start to finish was a star.

9- Luke Breust
Multiple premiership player and an amazing footballer, composure and smarts that have lasted for a long time. A perfect mix of marking and crumbing.

8-Jeff Farmer
The human highlight reel! people came to see this man play. An amazing footballer who could turn a game on its head. The wizard had seasons that could put him to number 1.

7- Brad Johnson
He was a pleasure to watch explosive a great kick a great mark and great on the floor as well, if he got bored would go into the midfield and get 30 possesions as well.
If in a successful team I could only imagine what he would of achieved.

6- Peter Daicos
I didn’t get to see him play but from what people say he was the most skilful player born. His record is amazing and a pure legend of the game till this day.


5- Cyril Rioli
One of the best I’ve seen in terms of skills and things he could do on a football field. Could be higher in terms of talent 1-2 but just not as many runs on the board as some of the others.

4- Steve Johnson
They don’t come any smarter than Johnson, was such a big factor in the reason that Geelong were so successful.
People kick goals like him now and had so many big performances throughout his career.

3- Eddie Betts
The greatest goal kicking magician that has ever been, goal of the year so many times and was the epitome of a “small forward” at the feet of a pack weaving magic! An amazing tally of goals at the end of his career.

2- Steven Milne
An absolute pest an absolute high speed turbo Jack russel crumber, but no one did it to his affect! The most goals ever as a small forward in the modern era and does not really get much recognition. It hurts to give it to him as well because every club other than st kilda hated him.

1- Kevin Bartlett
I didn’t get to see him but some of his performances in finals and grand finals were crazy! The highlights as well he would hit the ball at such speed and rove and kick goals like nothing I’ve ever seen. Seemed to read the ball 20 seconds before anyone else.
 
Lingsface said:
I would like to go through each position and name top 10 players in order. I will start with my top 10 small forwards. Follow with your thoughts and your own top 10. I have not included Leigh Matthews as I put him as a midfielder.

10- Mark Le Cras
A great small forward who had a very consistent successful career. Great overhead for his size and a beautiful kick of the football. Played with the top teams of 06 and 18 and had some lean years in between from start to finish was a star.

9- Luke Breust
Multiple premiership player and an amazing footballer, composure and smarts that have lasted for a long time. A perfect mix of marking and crumbing.

8-Jeff Farmer
The human highlight reel! people came to see this man play. An amazing footballer who could turn a game on its head. The wizard had seasons that could put him to number 1.

7- Brad Johnson
He was a pleasure to watch explosive a great kick a great mark and great on the floor as well, if he got bored would go into the midfield and get 30 possesions as well.
If in a successful team I could only imagine what he would of achieved.

6- Peter Daicos
I didn’t get to see him play but from what people say he was the most skilful player born. His record is amazing and a pure legend of the game till this day.


5- Cyril Rioli
One of the best I’ve seen in terms of skills and things he could do on a football field. Could be higher in terms of talent 1-2 but just not as many runs on the board as some of the others.

4- Steve Johnson
They don’t come any smarter than Johnson, was such a big factor in the reason that Geelong were so successful.
People kick goals like him now and had so many big performances throughout his career.

3- Eddie Betts
The greatest goal kicking magician that has ever been, goal of the year so many times and was the epitome of a “small forward” at the feet of a pack weaving magic! An amazing tally of goals at the end of his career.

2- Steven Milne
An absolute pest an absolute high speed turbo Jack russel crumber, but no one did it to his affect! The most goals ever as a small forward in the modern era and does not really get much recognition. It hurts to give it to him as well because every club other than st kilda hated him.

1- Kevin Bartlett
I didn’t get to see him but some of his performances in finals and grand finals were crazy! The highlights as well he would hit the ball at such speed and rove and kick goals like nothing I’ve ever seen. Seemed to read the ball 20 seconds before anyone else.
Click to expand...
Steve Johnson was 6 foot 2 inches so he doesn't qualify sorry.
 

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Decent effort.
Like Daicos (centreman) and to a lesser extent KB, Leigh Matthews played forward and onball. He was the best of the rover/forwards.
Also the definition of small forwards is a little grey. Breust and Stevie J are around 185cm, right? Same size as Ablett senior!
Milne, Cyril, Farmer, Betts are true small forwards.
 
That's a good effort, hard to fault. Steve Johnson and Brad Johnson for mine are borderline too tall though.

Phil Matera and Michael Walters are not far off
 
Lingsface said:
I would like to go through each position and name top 10 players in order. I will start with my top 10 small forwards. Follow with your thoughts and your own top 10. I have not included Leigh Matthews as I put him as a midfielder.
Click to expand...
OP, is your criteria that a player can only be selected in one position?
Either way, to me Matthews and Bartlett had very similar career trajectories. At their peak both were goal kicking rovers who 'rested' forward, and both spent the last five or so years of their careers as mainly forwards who occasionally went on the ball.
Statistically, Matthews kicked 137 more goals than Bartlett in 70 less games, and is comfortably the all time leading goal scorer among all 'small' players.

This is in no way meant as any criticism of Bartlett who is clearly one of the all time greats of the game, but I just feel that for a list of this kind the careers and roles of Bartlett and Matthews are very compable.
 
If you're going to include Johnson and Johnson at their height you'd probably have to include Michael O'Loughlin
 
raskolnikov said:
If you're going to include Johnson and Johnson at their height you'd probably have to include Michael O'Loughlin
Click to expand...
Brad was 182, which was short by AFL standards but maybe on the taller end for a small forward.

Steve was 189 which certainly doesn't fit into the scale. Certainly played like one though.
 
Lingsface said:
I would like to go through each position and name top 10 players in order. I will start with my top 10 small forwards. Follow with your thoughts and your own top 10. I have not included Leigh Matthews as I put him as a midfielder.

10- Mark Le Cras
A great small forward who had a very consistent successful career. Great overhead for his size and a beautiful kick of the football. Played with the top teams of 06 and 18 and had some lean years in between from start to finish was a star.

9- Luke Breust
Multiple premiership player and an amazing footballer, composure and smarts that have lasted for a long time. A perfect mix of marking and crumbing.

8-Jeff Farmer
The human highlight reel! people came to see this man play. An amazing footballer who could turn a game on its head. The wizard had seasons that could put him to number 1.

7- Brad Johnson
He was a pleasure to watch explosive a great kick a great mark and great on the floor as well, if he got bored would go into the midfield and get 30 possesions as well.
If in a successful team I could only imagine what he would of achieved.

6- Peter Daicos
I didn’t get to see him play but from what people say he was the most skilful player born. His record is amazing and a pure legend of the game till this day.


5- Cyril Rioli
One of the best I’ve seen in terms of skills and things he could do on a football field. Could be higher in terms of talent 1-2 but just not as many runs on the board as some of the others.

4- Steve Johnson
They don’t come any smarter than Johnson, was such a big factor in the reason that Geelong were so successful.
People kick goals like him now and had so many big performances throughout his career.

3- Eddie Betts
The greatest goal kicking magician that has ever been, goal of the year so many times and was the epitome of a “small forward” at the feet of a pack weaving magic! An amazing tally of goals at the end of his career.

2- Steven Milne
An absolute pest an absolute high speed turbo Jack russel crumber, but no one did it to his affect! The most goals ever as a small forward in the modern era and does not really get much recognition. It hurts to give it to him as well because every club other than st kilda hated him.

1- Kevin Bartlett
I didn’t get to see him but some of his performances in finals and grand finals were crazy! The highlights as well he would hit the ball at such speed and rove and kick goals like nothing I’ve ever seen. Seemed to read the ball 20 seconds before anyone else.
Click to expand...

Decent effort LF, well done.

I would need to do some research, but a few initial thoughts….

  • Milne looks too high to me. In a previous exercise I had Betts and Cyril above him.
  • you might want a category for mid-forwards where you could consider players like Bartlett, Matthews, Martin who spent most of their career playing midfield but were devastating forwards. So perhaps you could say pure mids are players who played 80% plus of their career in the midfield. Mid-forwards players who played mainly mid but a substantial amount(roughly 30% at least) forward like the players I mentioned. Then forward-mids like Blight and Hird and Johnson and Toby Greene who played mainly forward but a substantial amount in the midfield. And finally your specialist small forwards, who played at least 80% forward.
  • a massive curve ball for you for consideration on your list. William John “Jack” “Skinny” Titus stood 175cm and weighed about 65kgs wringing wet. He was even in his day a small statured forward who played a mixture of half-forward, forward pocket and full forward. He retired in the 1940’s with 975 goals to his name and not too many players have ever kicked more than that. Amazingly consistent and resilient footballer.
 
SplintWhisky said:
Can't really have Stevie J in there. He is like 4 cm smaller than Jack Riewoldt.

Is Chappy not eligible for the list?
Click to expand...
If it was based on size rather than the traditional small forward position on the team sheet your argument would be better in regards of Charles Cameron, leigh Matthews ect
 

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Yea the heights are hard to make a judgement on, more about playing styles for me that I picked the players on.

I agree Milne is to high if it was on my favourites but the amount of goals he managed to put together I can’t turn away from.
 
South of the Yarra said:
Daicos is better than Rioli, Johnson, Betts and Milne. He kicked 97 in a season ( the most ever by a non key position forward). He also had seasons of 76, 75, 58 and 52.
Click to expand...
I didn’t get to see much of Daicos, it seems as though he could be number 1 in a lot of peoples eyes though.
 
Lingsface said:
I didn’t get to see much of Daicos, it seems as though he could be number 1 in a lot of peoples eyes though.
Click to expand...

Your list is great. Bartlett a superstar and I would have him and Daicos as number 1. If we count Mathews he goes ahead of both but not even Mathews could kick 97 in a season.
 
Eddie is the pin up boy for modern small forwards though, kicking goal of the year with best snaps and dancing feet! People came to watch Eddie and that was enough.It seems as though Daicos was the 80s and Bartlett the 70s.
 
Strange Cat said:
If it was based on size rather than the traditional small forward position on the team sheet your argument would be better in regards of Charles Cameron, leigh Matthews ect
Click to expand...
Matthews definitely would be up there but I would take Chappy over Charlie Cameron every day of the week. My experience may be warped but he always seemed to stand up in the big moments and was good forward who roamed up the ground. He did lower his colours at Essendon though
 

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Like isn't being compared with like.

Daicos started as a centreman. When I think of small forwards I don't think of him.

6'4'' Steve Johnson is a small forward ? No.

KB ? In his prime he was a rover first and foremost before resting in the pocket.

Brad Johnson ? More a half-forward/mid.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Decent effort LF, well done.

I would need to do some research, but a few initial thoughts….

  • Milne looks too high to me. In a previous exercise I had Betts and Cyril above him.
  • you might want a category for mid-forwards where you could consider players like Bartlett, Matthews, Martin who spent most of their career playing midfield but were devastating forwards. So perhaps you could say pure mids are players who played 80% plus of their career in the midfield. Mid-forwards players who played mainly mid but a substantial amount(roughly 30% at least) forward like the players I mentioned. Then forward-mids like Blight and Hird and Johnson and Toby Greene who played mainly forward but a substantial amount in the midfield. And finally your specialist small forwards, who played at least 80% forward.
  • a massive curve ball for you for consideration on your list. William John “Jack” “Skinny” Titus stood 175cm and weighed about 65kgs wringing wet. He was even in his day a small statured forward who played a mixture of half-forward, forward pocket and full forward. He retired in the 1940’s with 975 goals to his name and not too many players have ever kicked more than that. Amazingly consistent and resilient footballer.
Click to expand...
How did you have Rioli above Milne as a ''small forward'' ? Obviously, Rioli spent some time in the midfield, subject to his hamstrings, but as pure small forwards what was your criteria to place Rioli higher.

Milne kicked 50 goals or more 6 times. Rioli did it never times.

Milne kicked 40 or more 8 times. Rioli the grand total of twice.

Rioli averaged 3 more disposals because he pushed up the ground more and was certainly the better pressure forward, but I like small forwards who hit the scoreboard.

Anyway, was interested in your reasoning.

I know you're obsessed with goal assists and Norm Smith Medals, so perhaps it's those...
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Decent effort LF, well done.

I would need to do some research, but a few initial thoughts….

  • Milne looks too high to me. In a previous exercise I had Betts and Cyril above him.
  • you might want a category for mid-forwards where you could consider players like Bartlett, Matthews, Martin who spent most of their career playing midfield but were devastating forwards. So perhaps you could say pure mids are players who played 80% plus of their career in the midfield. Mid-forwards players who played mainly mid but a substantial amount(roughly 30% at least) forward like the players I mentioned. Then forward-mids like Blight and Hird and Johnson and Toby Greene who played mainly forward but a substantial amount in the midfield. And finally your specialist small forwards, who played at least 80% forward.
  • a massive curve ball for you for consideration on your list. William John “Jack” “Skinny” Titus stood 175cm and weighed about 65kgs wringing wet. He was even in his day a small statured forward who played a mixture of half-forward, forward pocket and full forward. He retired in the 1940’s with 975 goals to his name and not too many players have ever kicked more than that. Amazingly consistent and resilient footballer.
Click to expand...
Dick Harris is another small forward who played for Richmond around the same time as Jack Titus, kicked over 500 goals mostly playing as a resting rover
 
I would say Milne was more consistent over the duration of his career than Betts (2.1 goal per game avg vs. Betts at 1.8). Milney 8 seasons of 40+ goals vs. 7 seasons of 40+ for Betts even though Betts had a longer career. However Eddie's peak (first 3-4 years at the Crows) was better than Milne's. In that 2015-17 period, Eddie was unstoppable and I would say his absolute best performance was better than Milne's absolute best performance.

I would pick Milney for the body of work across his career but Betts for the level that he reached at his peak. Either way they rank very closely on the list.

Peter Daicos at his best is better than anyone on that list, although not sure you could categorise him as a pure small forward.
 
SplintWhisky said:
Matthews definitely would be up there but I would take Chappy over Charlie Cameron every day of the week. My experience may be warped but he always seemed to stand up in the big moments and was good forward who roamed up the ground. He did lower his colours at Essendon though
Click to expand...

Chappy was an incredible player and the sort of guy as a fan you wanted near the ball whenever there was pressure on or something at stake
At 1.3 goals a game though and roughly .75 assists it’s just not enough to put him in a small forward discussion. I have no doubt he would have been. 2.2-2.3 goal a game small forward if he was permanently camped there but to average 20 touches a game over his career it shows home much time he spent up the ground
 

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