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Research Small questions that don't require a whole thread

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Can someone tell me what was the first club to NOT have their captain wear Number 1 and what year. l remember Barassi at Carlton wear #31 in the 70's and l think Jack Dwyer wore #17 but l dont know who was the first and when. in the early days all Captains wore #1 and Vice Captains wore #2.
 
kool kangas said:
Can someone tell me what was the first club to NOT have their captain wear Number 1 and what year. l remember Barassi at Carlton wear #31 in the 70's and l think Jack Dwyer wore #17 but l dont know who was the first and when. in the early days all Captains wore #1 and Vice Captains wore #2.
Click to expand...

I don't think you are right about that - a lot may have done, but I'm not sure it was as much a standard as you appear to think.
And VC wearing #2 - never heard about that being a standard, not in Aust Football anyway.
 
Hi there folks, especially Bombers history buffs.

I'm looking to source and make a copy of 1914 and or 1915 Essendon team photo if one exists. My grandfather played for the Dons in those 2 years. I've done some pretty extensive searching via all the history links, libraries and collections suggested on Bigfooty and contacted the club directly without any luck.

I'm hoping someone out there might have one, or can direct me to someone who does. I don't require an original, just a copy or scan.

Please message me or reply to the thread. I'll also place something on the Essendon History forum.

Thanks and hope to hear from you

DVC
 

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DeputyViceCaptain said:
Hi there folks, especially Bombers history buffs.

I'm looking to source and make a copy of 1914 and or 1915 Essendon team photo if one exists. My grandfather played for the Dons in those 2 years. I've done some pretty extensive searching via all the history links, libraries and collections suggested on Bigfooty and contacted the club directly without any luck.

I'm hoping someone out there might have one, or can direct me to someone who does. I don't require an original, just a copy or scan.

Please message me or reply to the thread. I'll also place something on the Essendon History forum.

Thanks and hope to hear from you

DVC
Click to expand...

So, your grandfather was Dinsmore, Hurrey, King, Neate, or Webster ?
 
DeputyViceCaptain said:
Good detective work Croucher.

He was Horace Webster.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

I admit to hoping it was Webster...given he played here in Launceston in the NTFA pre-WW1. His career is quite well covered in the local papers, although the two best illustrated local weeklies covering the footy are not yet on Trove but are online through other links should you wish to know more.

Haven't yet come across group photos of Essendon players in 1914 or 1915 - Trove has a reasonable number of pics from various Melbourne papers about matches where coverage shows spectators and scattered individual but not i.d. action shots.

In the meantime you probably have come across this pic or ref before, but in case not, Webster represented Tasmania at the 1911 Carnival in Adelaide and is here in the group portrait of the squad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tasmania_at_Adelaide_Carnival,_1911.jpg
 
the croucher said:
I admit to hoping it was Webster...given he played here in Launceston in the NTFA pre-WW1. His career is quite well covered in the local papers, although the two best illustrated local weeklies covering the footy are not yet on Trove but are online through other links should you wish to know more.

Haven't yet come across group photos of Essendon players in 1914 or 1915 - Trove has a reasonable number of pics from various Melbourne papers about matches where coverage shows spectators and scattered individual but not i.d. action shots.

In the meantime you probably have come across this pic or ref before, but in case not, Webster represented Tasmania at the 1911 Carnival in Adelaide and is here in the group portrait of the squad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tasmania_at_Adelaide_Carnival,_1911.jpg
Click to expand...

Gee - thanks Croucher! You know your stuff. We certainly do have a lot of stuff that my brother and I have found through Trove including transcribing all games in which he is mentioned in his 1913 year at the Bloods and the 2 at the Dons. We have a ‘13 photo which appears in a South history book and a player photo from a ‘13 VFL footy record. My brother has found quite a few photos too from the local Launceston gazette (i think) too.
Yes, i think we do have this one but I really appreciate your interest and response. Thanks and please stay in touch.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
DeputyViceCaptain said:
Gee - thanks Croucher! You know your stuff. We certainly do have a lot of stuff that my brother and I have found through Trove including transcribing all games in which he is mentioned in his 1913 year at the Bloods and the 2 at the Dons. We have a ‘13 photo which appears in a South history book and a player photo from a ‘13 VFL footy record. My brother has found quite a few photos too from the local Launceston gazette (i think) too.
Yes, i think we do have this one but I really appreciate your interest and response. Thanks and please stay in touch.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Here are some links to a few more team photos in which your grandfather appears - all but the last one are from his playing days in Tasmania. You've probably seen them, and most are rather poor quality, but just in case!:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/51492644
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29811421
trove.nla.gov.au

ONE OF NOTH'S VICTORIOUS TEAMS. - Examiner (Launceston, Tas. : 1900 - 1954) - 19 Jun 1926

[?]Back Row, Left to Right—W. Ride, A. D. Tynan, J. Davidson, H. Webster, S. McKenzie, H. Gibbons, V. G. Valentine. Middle Row—G. Shaw, W. J. Conder, H. E. Sutton, R. Steernes, J. B. Courtenay, H. Cobern, and H. Woolley. In Front—J. Coogan, H. Hutchinson, H. Devine (umpire). T. Towell, and G...
trove.nla.gov.au trove.nla.gov.au
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/197063300
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/51651382
trove.nla.gov.au

SOUTH MELBOURNE. - Table Talk (Melbourne, Vic. : 1885 - 1939) - 22 May 1913

Top Row.—H. Saltau, L. Mortimer, A. Hiskins, S. Thomas, P. Abbott, C. Strang, L. Charge, H. Webster, C. Hiskins. Bottom Row—Wolff, B. Pranks, Radernrache[?], J. Prince, V. Belcher, H. Kelly, J. Caldwell, M. Tandy B. Sloss. ...
trove.nla.gov.au trove.nla.gov.au
 
35Daicos said:
Here are some links to a few more team photos in which your grandfather appears - all but the last one are from his playing days in Tasmania. You've probably seen them, and most are rather poor quality, but just in case!:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/51492644
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29811421
trove.nla.gov.au

ONE OF NOTH'S VICTORIOUS TEAMS. - Examiner (Launceston, Tas. : 1900 - 1954) - 19 Jun 1926

[?]Back Row, Left to Right—W. Ride, A. D. Tynan, J. Davidson, H. Webster, S. McKenzie, H. Gibbons, V. G. Valentine. Middle Row—G. Shaw, W. J. Conder, H. E. Sutton, R. Steernes, J. B. Courtenay, H. Cobern, and H. Woolley. In Front—J. Coogan, H. Hutchinson, H. Devine (umpire). T. Towell, and G...
trove.nla.gov.au trove.nla.gov.au
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/197063300
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/51651382
trove.nla.gov.au

SOUTH MELBOURNE. - Table Talk (Melbourne, Vic. : 1885 - 1939) - 22 May 1913

Top Row.—H. Saltau, L. Mortimer, A. Hiskins, S. Thomas, P. Abbott, C. Strang, L. Charge, H. Webster, C. Hiskins. Bottom Row—Wolff, B. Pranks, Radernrache[?], J. Prince, V. Belcher, H. Kelly, J. Caldwell, M. Tandy B. Sloss. ...
trove.nla.gov.au trove.nla.gov.au
Click to expand...

Thanks heaps Daics. The 1926 one looks new to me (I need to to confer with my bro), so much appreciated! The South Melbourne one is the one we got from Jim Main's ' in the Blood' Club History. The generosity of spirit on this board is really great. I'll keep you posted. :)
 
35Daicos said:
Here are some links to a few more team photos in which your grandfather appears - all but the last one are from his playing days in Tasmania. You've probably seen them, and most are rather poor quality, but just in case!:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/51492644
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29811421
trove.nla.gov.au

ONE OF NOTH'S VICTORIOUS TEAMS. - Examiner (Launceston, Tas. : 1900 - 1954) - 19 Jun 1926

[?]Back Row, Left to Right—W. Ride, A. D. Tynan, J. Davidson, H. Webster, S. McKenzie, H. Gibbons, V. G. Valentine. Middle Row—G. Shaw, W. J. Conder, H. E. Sutton, R. Steernes, J. B. Courtenay, H. Cobern, and H. Woolley. In Front—J. Coogan, H. Hutchinson, H. Devine (umpire). T. Towell, and G...
trove.nla.gov.au trove.nla.gov.au
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/197063300
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/51651382
trove.nla.gov.au

SOUTH MELBOURNE. - Table Talk (Melbourne, Vic. : 1885 - 1939) - 22 May 1913

Top Row.—H. Saltau, L. Mortimer, A. Hiskins, S. Thomas, P. Abbott, C. Strang, L. Charge, H. Webster, C. Hiskins. Bottom Row—Wolff, B. Pranks, Radernrache[?], J. Prince, V. Belcher, H. Kelly, J. Caldwell, M. Tandy B. Sloss. ...
trove.nla.gov.au trove.nla.gov.au
Click to expand...


Hi Daics. It seems we did have all these images although not necessarily the context in which they appeared which is interesting so thanks again! Cheers DVC
 
We've looking for a relative of Carlton and Richmond great Percy Bentley.
In 2002 I met his son, Bruce Bentley (who played a coupe of games himself), but lost that connection.
Carlton Historian doesn't know of a Percy Bentley relative, so I thought I'd try here to see if anyone has any leads

Rhett
 
the croucher said:
I admit to hoping it was Webster...given he played here in Launceston in the NTFA pre-WW1. His career is quite well covered in the local papers, although the two best illustrated local weeklies covering the footy are not yet on Trove but are online through other links should you wish to know more.

Haven't yet come across group photos of Essendon players in 1914 or 1915 - Trove has a reasonable number of pics from various Melbourne papers about matches where coverage shows spectators and scattered individual but not i.d. action shots.

In the meantime you probably have come across this pic or ref before, but in case not, Webster represented Tasmania at the 1911 Carnival in Adelaide and is here in the group portrait of the squad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tasmania_at_Adelaide_Carnival,_1911.jpg
Click to expand...

Hi Croucher and Daics. I've been in touch with Essendon FC and with the local history department at the municipal library for Essendon but without success. They have been helpful but unfortunately no joy with 1914 and 15 team photos. They must be out there somewhere! There is one more lead and its a long shot, but I'm just waiting to hear back. Cheers DVC
 

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How did timekeepers work back in the less technically savvy era? I see the two blokes syncing watches with a goal umpire in the article on this page http://www.blueseum.org/Timekeepers but when it came time to blow the siren did they both press a button at the same time, or do a countdown of the last 10 seconds together or what? I expect they'd be in constant discussion throughout to make sure it didn't get to the end and one of the blokes had botched his timing.

Any other articles about the process? Found this from 1956

1576663359150.png

... and this from 1964, which doesn't suggest much progress.

1576663448504.png
 
I was interested to read that the recently retired Tigers player Alex Rance is a Jehovah's Witness. I don't recall any other Jehovah's Witness players in the AFL/VFL over the years, can anyone name any?
 
Given Supermercado's reference above to timekeepers, it's quite bizarre that my question relates to Fitzroy's 1916 timekeeper Bob King.
My research indicates that he was about 55 years of age at the time, but there was also a Bob King, aged 22, who lined up in the back-pocket when the Maroons beat Carlton to win the 1916 premiership.
My intuition suggests they were father and son, but I've been unable to confirm this.
Does anybody out there know whether or not the two Bob Kings (as opposed to two-bob kings) were related?
Many thanks if you can help me and a Happy New Year to you all irrespective.
 
FitzroyPete said:
Given Supermercado's reference above to timekeepers, it's quite bizarre that my question relates to Fitzroy's 1916 timekeeper Bob King.
My research indicates that he was about 55 years of age at the time, but there was also a Bob King, aged 22, who lined up in the back-pocket when the Maroons beat Carlton to win the 1916 premiership.
My intuition suggests they were father and son, but I've been unable to confirm this.
Does anybody out there know whether or not the two Bob Kings (as opposed to two-bob kings) were related?
Many thanks if you can help me and a Happy New Year to you all irrespective.
Click to expand...
Yes, it seems that the two were father-son: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/184797902 (16 Aug 1922)
1577542675302.png

trove.nla.gov.au

Life Saving in Sydney - Tom King Tells of High Standard - Sporting Globe (Melbourne, Vic. : 1922 - 1954) - 24 Dec 1928

Tom King, an ex-Melbourne boy, who is an Instructor in the Coogee Life Saving Club, has been visiting Melbourne during the past week. ...
trove.nla.gov.au trove.nla.gov.au
1577546228998.png

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/205949868 (November 1936)
1577592974219.png
 
Last edited:

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emuboy said:
I was interested to read that the recently retired Tigers player Alex Rance is a Jehovah's Witness. I don't recall any other Jehovah's Witness players in the AFL/VFL over the years, can anyone name any?
Click to expand...
Interestingly Adam & Brett Goodes were JW’s growing up & took up the game a bit later than they could have because of the difficulties of the religion & church commitments. I think they followed their parents & once old enough, disregarded the religion.
Most famous JW sportspeople atm are the Williams sisters in tennis.
 
35Daicos, once more you're an absolute champ.
I thought I'd researched the Bob King x 2 quandary thoroughly, but clearly not.
Thanks once again, mate.
 
Bring back Drum said:
Interestingly Adam & Brett Goodes were JW’s growing up & took up the game a bit later than they could have because of the difficulties of the religion & church commitments. I think they followed their parents & once old enough, disregarded the religion.
Most famous JW sportspeople atm are the Williams sisters in tennis.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bring Back Drum, I didn't know they were JW's.
 
Another left-field question, this time relating to Round 1, 1897, versus Carlton.
I know none of the Big Footy posters would've been in attendance, but does anybody know who kicked Fitzroy's first goal?
There are six “suspects”: Jim Grace, Chris Kiernan, Roger Lamley, Bill McSpeerin, Arch Muirhead and Ted Staniland.
I've researched Trove newspapers reasonably thoroughly and have tried a range of Advanced Google searches, but all to no avail.
Many thanks if you can help me.
 
FitzroyPete said:
Another left-field question, this time relating to Round 1, 1897, versus Carlton.
I know none of the Big Footy posters would've been in attendance, but does anybody know who kicked Fitzroy's first goal?
There are six “suspects”: Jim Grace, Chris Kiernan, Roger Lamley, Bill McSpeerin, Arch Muirhead and Ted Staniland.
I've researched Trove newspapers reasonably thoroughly and have tried a range of Advanced Google searches, but all to no avail.
Many thanks if you can help me.
Click to expand...
The Football Record Season Guide has a list of the first ever goalkickers for all clubs (page 767 in the 2019 edition). Bill McSpeerin gets the nod for Fitzroy.
 
Once again, 35Daicos, many, many thanks for answering my question.
I actually have every edition of the AFL Record Season Guide and should've researched it instead of Google/Trove.
 
Last edited:

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