Soccer tycoon Clive Palmer attacks the Australian game on the GC

[Father Jack]

Clive Palmer brought out the "AFL is the only sport worth watching" trolls on this board . I can imagine them frothing at the mouth as they vigourously defend an attack on their Australian game.

Yes, fancy AFL supporters being on an AFL board defending the AFL

 

[mustapha]

Yes, fancy AFL supporters being on an AFL board defending the AFL

You don't think that some people who follow the AFL also have the ability to watch and love other sports and that some people might defend those sports?

 

[Rob]

You don't think that some people who follow the AFL also have the ability to watch and love other sports and that some people might defend those sports?

Go back and read the first post. Watching and appreciating other sports doesn't mean accepting crap from an arrogant, egotistical hypocrite like Palmer.

 

[Father Jack]

You don't think that some people who follow the AFL also have the ability to watch and love other sports and that some people might defend those sports?

Go back and read the first post. Watching and appreciating other sports doesn't mean accepting crap from an arrogant, egotistical hypocrite like Palmer.

What he said.

From my viewpoint though, I was looking forward to the soccer club starting, but if it just going to be the plaything of an ignorant and arrogant Mr Burns wannabe then I won't bother going to watch a single game. It is people like me they should be trying to get on board, not alienate. His stupid bloody team won't spend more than a month or so every season competing against GCFC.

 

[mustapha]

What he said.

From my viewpoint though, I was looking forward to the soccer club starting, but if it just going to be the plaything of an ignorant and arrogant Mr Burns wannabe then I won't bother going to watch a single game. It is people like me they should be trying to get on board, not alienate. His stupid bloody team won't spend more than a month or so every season competing against GCFC.

Palmer.[/QUOTE]

The first post claims that there is some kind of "soccer mentality" that is putting other people of the sport. This is based on the comments of one egotistical rich man.

Subsequent posts make the usual stupid claims that soccer is boring, it is crap because they don't use their hands, fans are fickle etc.

Palmers comments were probably just made to get people talking about the new club. He would know that they are hypocritical. IMO not the right approach when you may put off potential fans ie. Father Jack.

Fans of the new Gold Coast club are going to be mainly people who follow several codes of football (i.e. similar to Victory) so his comments don't really achieve much.

 

[Giants FC]

Go back and read the first post. Watching and appreciating other sports doesn't mean accepting crap from an arrogant, egotistical hypocrite like Palmer.

Hear hear!

I like soccer - I'm a Sydney FC season ticket holder and was one of the original members of The Cove (I'm no longer in The Cove, I traded in my home end membership for a reserved seat on the sideline this season).

But I'll have to admit I do find the "soccer/football will inevitably take over and become Australia's number 1", the "the Australian media are an axis of evil that hate soccer/football", and the "if you follow AFL that automatically makes you an anti-global insular redneck" talk from the soccer lobby to be far more offensive and off-putting than anything the NRL trolls ever dish up.

 

[Chuq]

This is the type of soccer mentality that turns fans of both codes off soccer in this country.

I think what you meant to say was that you have a pre-conceived notion of "the soccer mentality" and you see it wherever it suits you to see it?

Do you mind giving a few more examples of this "soccer mentality" ?

On soccer forums, the response to Palmer's comments were mainly of the ilk "wow, at least we have a soccer person coming out and making a noise in the media instead of sitting in the background being politically correct or not rocking the boat"

Lets be honest - the AFL is the richest sporting organisation in the country and do not need handouts to build venues which will, for the most part, be used exclusively by themselves. The Gold Coast A-League team is using a pre-existing, already built venue and in fact is allowing the owner (Qld government) to get more value out of it.

 

[Zvim]

This guy is an idiot and should stick to what he knows about.

Sporting teams generate billions in revenue for the government, they don't give away hundreds of millions because they feel like pissing money against the wall.

Sports are needed for communities, teams build up interest in the game, which causes kids to play footy, which keeps them fit and healthy and avoids them going to hospital. The industry generates billions in revenue over a period of time and the cost of supporting the game is repaid many times over.

His comments are biased. If he wasn't involved in a league that was sodomized and booted out as a winter sport to stay alive then he would have some semblance of credibility.

How many business leaders not involved in any code who do not have political aspirations have been critical of the government's involvement?

Don't bother looking, it will be zero.

A stadium doesn't stop building a hospital, the running costs do. Building a hospital is trivial to the amount it costs to run one, it will be like constantly building football stadiums which derive no real income.

Hospitals and other public works are largely limited by the communities ability to on-goingly operate them.

 

[Chuq]

Oh and talking about how much soccer funding gets...

At the 2000 Sydney Olympics, six venues hosted the football (soccer) matches - each received government funding for construction/upgrades:

Gabba, Brisbane - AFL and cricket received benefit
Sydney Football Stadium, Sydney - Mainly rugby league benefits
Bruce Stadium, Canberra - Rugby league & union benefit
Olympic Stadium, Sydney - Mainly rugby league benefits
MCG, Melbourne - AFL and cricket benefit

And .. oh look - at least ONE actual football stadium!
Hindmarsh Stadium, Adelaide - a 16500 capacity stadium which is already too small for its only tenant.

So when you start talking about Government funding for this and that, the other codes still have a pretty big debt to clear with soccer.

 

[Subprime]

Oh and talking about how much soccer funding gets...

At the 2000 Sydney Olympics, six venues hosted the football (soccer) matches - each received government funding for construction/upgrades:

Gabba, Brisbane - AFL and cricket received benefit
Sydney Football Stadium, Sydney - Mainly rugby league benefits
Bruce Stadium, Canberra - Rugby league & union benefit
Olympic Stadium, Sydney - Mainly rugby league benefits
MCG, Melbourne - AFL and cricket benefit

And .. oh look - at least ONE actual football stadium!
Hindmarsh Stadium, Adelaide - a 16500 capacity stadium which is already too small for its only tenant.

So when you start talking about Government funding for this and that, the other codes still have a pretty big debt to clear with soccer.

What did the MCG get? The southern stand was developed in the early 90's and the northern stand was developed for the C'wealth games.

As for the others, SFS hosts an A-league club, Homebush hosts Socceroos games and the A-league can put a team in Canberra if it wants to.

Edit: Maybe the Bruce Stadium upgrade had something to do with the now defunct Canberra Cosmos?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra_Cosmos

 

[jackmac7]

I'm sick of this soccer nonsense.

They envy the AFL so much that they nag and niggle at the AFL like an annoying 5th grader. Trying to flex it's little muscles up against the might of the AFL is a waste of time when both products stand side by side.

My best bet is to ignore these soccer whingers cause all they want is some attention and lime light like Clive and his team, but more interest seems to be following GC17 and he's pretty pissed and jealous about that.

Clives soccer team starts next year doesn't it? How many supporters has he signed up?

GC17 have already put 40,000+ in the book and they are still 3 years off.

Palmer is only in it because he can gloat to his rich mates that he owns a sporting franchise. Seriously what does he know about soccer?

 

[Mismatched]

The Robina stadium was built with tax payer money, because it could host the 3 biggest sports on the Gold Coast, with a proven record of pulling crowds in Queensland.

The government certainly shouldn't give any money to an oval stadium on the Gold Coast (which will only be used by 1 sport and 1 team), untill that team has at least proven that they can pull a crowd and be sustainable.

There's still talk that the team won't even end up getting into the AFL - and the AFL wants the government to start putting in money for a new stadium already?

Port Adelaide had to give money to the AFL when they entered the competition - and the AFL certainly made it hard for them to get started. It seems like the opposite is happening on the Gold Coast.

Mate, the Hills are a long way from the GC, I've only been up on the GC for 2 years now, but from my experience AFL is definitely #2 and is much, much stronger, comparitively speaking than RL is in Adelaide, Melbourne or Perth. Everyone seems to know what's happening in the AFL, they are genuinely interested and its support seems to be growing.

As for the whole Port Adelaide/other clubs having to pay the entry license, I think the AFL have seen how much this hurts the new clubs and may have actually learnt from it, hence why they are doing so much to support these new clubs.

 

[Gibbke]

As a Qlder for the last 13 years, the first 4 of them on the GC during the infamous Chargers years, I could also add that the GC most certainly does not have a proven track record of pulling in crowds for anything, until now with the Titans and them only...

 

[greennick]

But they didn't. Bracksy did the figures and he must have figured that it was needed, otherwise he wouldn't have coughed up the cash for it. It will probably be used for 30-ish days a year, which is not too bad considering. Probably better than any other stadium in Australia apart from the MCG, the Dome, SFS and Homebush.

All things considering, it's money well spent.

There are plenty of places that would be used more.

Subiaco, AAMI, the GABBA, all would definitely. The WACCA and Adelaide Oval would probably get used more too.

 

[Rob]

Oh and talking about how much soccer funding gets...

At the 2000 Sydney Olympics, six venues hosted the football (soccer) matches - each received government funding for construction/upgrades:

Gabba, Brisbane - AFL and cricket received benefit
Sydney Football Stadium, Sydney - Mainly rugby league benefits
Bruce Stadium, Canberra - Rugby league & union benefit
Olympic Stadium, Sydney - Mainly rugby league benefits
MCG, Melbourne - AFL and cricket benefit

And .. oh look - at least ONE actual football stadium!
Hindmarsh Stadium, Adelaide - a 16500 capacity stadium which is already too small for its only tenant.

So when you start talking about Government funding for this and that, the other codes still have a pretty big debt to clear with soccer.

So many inaccuracies with that post. Firstly, the SFS didn't get any noticable upgrades, and the MCG didn't get any at all. Bruce Stadium was neglected by soccer, that's why they got no benefit. And the stadium in Brisbane to which soccer is played was given hundreds of millions in government funding just recently.
Secondly, the only venue you suggest soccer got any benefit out of was one of the greatest political disasters of the decade. The whole premise was criticised to the shithouse because there wasn't the demand for it in the first place. Which is the problem if soccer wants it's own venues - it doesn't draw the crowds. Despite what you think, Hindmarsh is very rarely filled - and it's only the once in a decade event they've got on now that they can fill it. And it's the same with all stadiums.

You're deluding yourself if you think soccer is owed anything by the government - if it wasn't for the other sports that co tenant stadiums to which soccer plays, the stadium probably wouldn't exist.

If you want a comparison, look at the major grounds to which the AFL plays - only the Gabba could be said to have a major government financial contribution. MCG, TD, Subiaco, AAMI, SCG - mostly funded off their own bat with small, if any, government input. Yet they're a not for profit league involving not for profit clubs that pump tens of millions into grass roots sport every year. And you're suggesting a league made up a privately owned clubs run my some of Australia's richest people is owed something by the government? Get real. Of the 7 A-League clubs, at least 5 play out of entirely government funded stadiums, and the Victory will next year. That's what's called sponging.

 

[mustapha]

Secondly, the only venue you suggest soccer got any benefit out of was one of the greatest political disasters of the decade. The whole premise was criticised to the shithouse because there wasn't the demand for it in the first place. Which is the problem if soccer wants it's own venues - it doesn't draw the crowds. Despite what you think, Hindmarsh is very rarely filled - and it's only the once in a decade event they've got on now that they can fill it. And it's the same with all stadiums.

QUOTE]

In season one of the A League, Melbourne sold out 17,000 capacity Olympic Park once. In season two Melbourne moved most games to the Telstra dome and averaged a crowd of roughly 10,000 more people. Can you explain this? Why would demand suddenly increase by such a large amount (remembering that the championship was not one until the end of that year and that 39,000 people attended the second game of the year against Sydney)?

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Secondly, the only venue you suggest soccer got any benefit out of was one of the greatest political disasters of the decade. The whole premise was criticised to the shithouse because there wasn't the demand for it in the first place. Which is the problem if soccer wants it's own venues - it doesn't draw the crowds. Despite what you think, Hindmarsh is very rarely filled - and it's only the once in a decade event they've got on now that they can fill it. And it's the same with all stadiums.

In season one of the A League, Melbourne sold out 17,000 capacity Olympic Park once. In season two Melbourne moved most games to the Telstra dome and averaged a crowd of roughly 10,000 more people. Can you explain this? Why would demand suddenly increase by such a large amount (remembering that the championship was not one until the end of that year and that 39,000 people attended the second game of the year against Sydney)?

Olympic Park is a s**t hole and Telstra Dome is a state of the art stadium that people are used to attending, it's more centrally located.

 

[mustapha]

Olympic Park is a s**t hole and Telstra Dome is a state of the art stadium that people are used to attending, it's more centrally located.

Spot on. Isn't it likely that the same thing would happen in Adelaide if a better stadium was available?

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Spot on. Isn't it likely that the same thing would happen in Adelaide if a better stadium was available?

Olympic park was never a purpose built Soccer/RL stadium and has been a shithole for a long time. It was an empty venue and cheap to play at. Storm play there cause they are incapable of getting a crowd at the Dome. Melbourne also has almost 3 time the population of Adelaide, alot from ethnic groups which play soccer.

 

[mustapha]

Olympic park was never a purpose built Soccer/RL stadium and has been a shithole for a long time. It was an empty venue and cheap to play at. Storm play there cause they are incapable of getting a crowd at the Dome. Melbourne also has almost 3 time the population of Adelaide, alot from ethnic groups which play soccer.

Adelaide does have a third of the population and is probably less multicultural than Melbourne (not sure what the relevance of that is in the A League) but they did draw over 25,000 against Sydney at the Adelaide Oval, a ground with very poor viewing for rectangular sports. This is despite the fact that Adelaide does not sell out big games against Melbourne or Sydney at Hindmarsh.

A bigger rectangular stadium would increase Adelaide United crowds as well as enabling Socceroos games to be played in Adelaide.There is currently no suitable venue in Adelaide for the national team to play, therefore Adelaide misses out.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Sydney FC and Qld Roar have magnificent rectangular stadiums but struggle to attract crowds (only 12-13k each this year). Some of us with longer memories remember the Adelaide Rams getting 27k to their first SL game at the Adelaide Oval but that soon fell off - a one off A-League game there is hardly an indication of long term continual crowds bigger than what Hindmarsh can hold.

No doubt Adelaide could do with a central, high quality, multi purpose venue but there is no economic case for a new bigger rectangular stadium in Adelaide. Geez, Hindmarsh is a rectangular stadium with 15,500 seats; OP is an athletics track with barely over 10,000 seats and room for around 7k general admission goers who are forced to stand a long way from the play - there is no comparison between the two. The average crowd to four Adelaide A-League home games this year is a whopping 8882. I'm sure the SA taxpayers have far more significant priorities like schools and hospitals.

 

[Subprime]

Adelaide does have a third of the population and is probably less multicultural than Melbourne (not sure what the relevance of that is in the A League) but they did draw over 25,000 against Sydney at the Adelaide Oval, a ground with very poor viewing for rectangular sports. This is despite the fact that Adelaide does not sell out big games against Melbourne or Sydney at Hindmarsh.

A bigger rectangular stadium would increase Adelaide United crowds as well as enabling Socceroos games to be played in Adelaide.There is currently no suitable venue in Adelaide for the national team to play, therefore Adelaide misses out.

AAMI Stadium's original design was based upon the plans used for the Munich Olympic Stadium. FIFA, UEFA and the Bundesliga all deemed that the Munich OS was a suitable venue in which to play soccer for over 30 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Olympic_Stadium

AAMI stadium's field is 177m x 145m compared to Docklands 170m x 140m and the MCG 174m x 149m. Hardly a massive difference in the viewing angles or distances between AAMI and other venues the FFA is happy to use.

 

[Monty of the Shire]

In his defense he says he would be critical of soccer if they used gov funding as well - essentially he is saying that govts shouldnt use taxpayer money for footy pitches, I have to say I agree with him.

I'd be very critical of anybody putting that amount of cash in, whether it's soccer or any other code.

According to Wiki, Skilled Stadium was govt funded at a cost of 160 mill for the local league team.

This is the type of soccer mentality that turns fans of both codes off soccer in this country.

What mentality - war path expansion and mudslinging at other codes? You would never see that on this forum though would you!

 

[Monty of the Shire]

You don't think that some people who follow the AFL also have the ability to watch and love other sports and that some people might defend those sports?

 

[TigersBoy]

What you have to remember is that the A-League only enterd 4 years ago. So it was extreamly lucky the stadia was bulit and with no other Football codes played during Spring and summer the stadia was able to be used.
Telstra Dome, Olympic Park, Hindmarsh, Gosford, Newcastle and Westpac stadiums had no one using them during summer. Making it very easy for the FFA and Clubs to approch these stadiums and ask for deals. Look at the deal the Victory have with the Dome, its a cracker, they earn twice as much through gate revenue then AFL clubs get with twice the attendance. (SFS, Members Equity Perth and Suncorp have Super 14s in late summer).
Melbourne Victorys Stadium the MRS or the Bubble (cause it wasnt going to happen without the victory) was set to be built to 20,000 by the goverment to give soccer a new life in this city and a freash start at a new perpose built venue. However with the Victorys early unexpected move to the Dome and the jump to an average of 28,000 for regular season and 33,000 after finals, it was called that it be upgraded to the now 31,001 seats and how ever many stading room. With the Contract stating the Victory play 4 games a season at the Dome+Finals and the rest at the MRS (This will not have a coperate name at all like the MCG)
Melbourne Storm games were played at Telstra Dome for the 2001 season (correct me if im wrong) and they were only pulling between 10 and 12,000. The rectangle seating was in use for all these games too! Victory fans dont even get that wounderfull option and they average 25,000.
The difference with the expantion of the Gold Coast Untied of the A-League and Gold Coast FC of the AFL is that the AFL demaned they have members intrest. The A-League is all about making sure they have the money, the backing of investers, cause they dont have the AFL to help them with money like the AFL handouts that strugling clubs get. Youll find the Gold Coast United would have a lot of intrest but getting intrest from the public that want to be members isnt a main focus point of the FFA, thats up to the Club its self to get its Marketing director into action.