Soft players

jonbe54

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Posts
14,019
Likes
8,218
Location
Rural paradise
AFL Club
Collingwood
#51
Ive played footy since I was 7. Being short as **** every time I put my head over the ball or back into a pack it really hurts yet I still do it. Do I get to express people as soft? Or not because I don't play at the same level :(.
I wouldn't class anyone as soft until I knew them personally.

I'm shortish and slightly built, a Lynx in a country of Lions if you will and though I have never taken a backward step in my life I don't revile those who choose to skirt trouble, sometimes its the smart thing to do although I could never bring myself to countenance it.

Our wonderful sport takes a high enough toll in overstessed joints and ruptured ligaments as it is without encouraging reckless stupidity. Any professional sport - or semi professional as our is - wears a player out before their time and I've spoken to a few 35 year old ex footballers who look 50 and move like their 60.

Its all very well for us to sit back and say that Joe Bloggs is soft because he doesn't fit our template for a courageous footballer but I've got a news flash. Coaches all over the land have a different set of standards to supporters and realize there is a time and place for courage and no place whatsoever for reckless, foolish bravado.

Imagine if you will we are 3/4 of the way through the season and our new kicking coach has worked some miracle or other on Trav and he's got over 90 goals up already. We are sitting on 2nd on percentage and with a soft run up to the finals.

It's a wonderful position for us to be in isn't it?

Now its early in the second quarter against the team sitting on top of the ladder and the ball is in dispute on our forward line, they grab it and start to run it out in a pack. Big Trav says to himself 'Oh no you don't sunshine!' and hurls himself bodily at the ball carrier, bring him down and spilling the ball out for Beamsy to swoop on and kick a team lifting goal.

Sensational play eh? Boys own annual dream stuff.

Right.

By the time the flags have finished waving Trav still hasn't got up and the trainers race out to him.

He ruptured an achilles tendon when another opposition player trod on the back of his ankle in the scrum resulting from his tackle and his season and possibly his career is finished.

Collingwood, shattered by the loss of their premier centre half forward lose the game and tumble to 5th by the end of the home and away and are eliminated in the first round.

Bloody wonderful, all for a touch of bravado and some of you will sing his praises for his courage.

Sure its courageous and I would be emotionally inclined to do the same thing myself.

But its stupid because it doesn't take into account that Trav is first and foremost our spearhead and not a tackling machine.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

TheFreshBanana

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Posts
36,350
Likes
23,778
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Liverpool
#52
Whatever your opinion is, fact remains that being able to be tough and put your head over the ball without hesitation is integral to winning games.

Especially these days when contested possession is everything.

If a player is good enough to be soft and not be a detriment, good on him, but I would suspect he'd be in the minority.
 

OniAu

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Posts
4,882
Likes
3,567
Location
Bendigo
AFL Club
Collingwood
#54
Always been of the opinion that id rather see Pendlebury take a shorter step and collect the ball from crumbing the pack and kick a goal on the run from 50, than go into the pack get collected, break a rib and be out for weeks.

My idea of soft is not tackling, running, chasing hard enough all game. Being smart about when to go or not is so underated.
 

TheFreshBanana

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Posts
36,350
Likes
23,778
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Liverpool
#55
I wouldn't class anyone as soft until I knew them personally.

Now its early in the second quarter against the team sitting on top of the ladder and the ball is in dispute on our forward line, they grab it and start to run it out in a pack. Big Trav says to himself 'Oh no you don't sunshine!' and hurls himself bodily at the ball carrier, bring him down and spilling the ball out for Beamsy to swoop on and kick a team lifting goal.

Sensational play eh? Boys own annual dream stuff.

Right.

But its stupid because it doesn't take into account that Trav is first and foremost our spearhead and not a tackling machine.
Right. So we just bench Cloke for the rest of the game, is that it?

It's not like in your scenario, Cloke is going in head first, which would be stupid considering we have a considerable lead and there is no need for recklessness.

What you've described, is a slim chance of happening, you can't just tell your players "don't tackle, don't want you injured". wtf!

I agree with the above, that you have to be smart about it. There is being courageous, and then there is being recklessly courageous.
 

jonbe54

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Posts
14,019
Likes
8,218
Location
Rural paradise
AFL Club
Collingwood
#56
Right. So we just bench Cloke for the rest of the game, is that it?

It's not like in your scenario, Cloke is going in head first, which would be stupid considering we have a considerable lead and there is no need for recklessness.

What you've described, is a slim chance of happening, you can't just tell your players "don't tackle, don't want you injured". wtf!

I agree with the above, that you have to be smart about it. There is being courageous, and then there is being recklessly courageous.
Never intimated players shouldn't tackle to save injuries - that's your interpretation of my post and its totally wrong. I am saying that fostering a culture of tackling at all cost regardless of the situation is all very well but it WILL have consequences.

That is the point I'm trying to get accross to those who insist that everyone should tackle at every possible opportunity.

YES that is an extreme and incredibly unlikely scenario BUT for every act of unthinking bravado there are potential consequesnces. Some of them too grisly to even contemplate.

Every player is expected to do their bit BUT again, it needs to be sane and calculated. The season is too long and there are too many contenders now to be reckless with our players only to lose them for weeks through injury when there may be no need to do so.

A footy club is no longer a meat factory like they used to be, players expect more than a weekly paycheck for ten years and a lifetime of medical care and expense because of the rigours of the game. They expect to get knocked around and even injured but not for nothing and not for stupid bravado that ends up costing the team much more than the posession they may have won or denied the opposition.
 

TheFreshBanana

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Posts
36,350
Likes
23,778
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Liverpool
#57
Never intimated players shouldn't tackle to save injuries - that's your interpretation of my post and its totally wrong. I am saying that fostering a culture of tackling at all cost regardless of the situation is all very well but it WILL have consequences.

That is the point I'm trying to get accross to those who insist that everyone should tackle at every possible opportunity.

YES that is an extreme and incredibly unlikely scenario BUT for every act of unthinking bravado there are potential consequesnces. Some of them too grisly to even contemplate.

Every player is expected to do their bit BUT again, it needs to be sane and calculated. The season is too long and there are too many contenders now to be reckless with our players only to lose them for weeks through injury when there may be no need to do so.

A footy club is no longer a meat factory like they used to be, players expect more than a weekly paycheck for ten years and a lifetime of medical care and expense because of the rigours of the game. They expect to get knocked around and even injured but not for nothing and not for stupid bravado that ends up costing the team much more than the posession they may have won or denied the opposition.
Since when did tackling become such a "hard" thing to do? Anyway...

I don't understand what situation can present where someone will go "if I tackle, I'll hurt myself". Doesn't really make sense to me. I can understand if you mean, putting your head down and diving at the ball head first, now that is reckless and a high percentage chance of having consequence. This, tackling, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Have I missed something? Since when did the act of tackling carry a stigma that it incurs injuries?
 

jonbe54

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Posts
14,019
Likes
8,218
Location
Rural paradise
AFL Club
Collingwood
#58
Since when did tackling become such a "hard" thing to do? Anyway...

I don't understand what situation can present where someone will go "if I tackle, I'll hurt myself". Doesn't really make sense to me. I can understand if you mean, putting your head down and diving at the ball head first, now that is reckless and a high percentage chance of having consequence. This, tackling, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Have I missed something? Since when did the act of tackling carry a stigma that it incurs injuries?
Yes you missed something - the point - and completely at that.
 

jonbe54

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Posts
14,019
Likes
8,218
Location
Rural paradise
AFL Club
Collingwood
#60
The point that there is no need to do reckless and stupid acts of bravado? Well, I got that. But your example doesn't really fit what you're saying.
Mullahhh!!!

I SAID it was an extreme example used for illustrative purposes of the consequences of reckless tackling. I don't get what part of that you don't understand. o_O
 

TheFreshBanana

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Posts
36,350
Likes
23,778
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Liverpool
#61
Mullahhh!!!

I SAID it was an extreme example used for illustrative purposes of the consequences of reckless tackling. I don't get what part of that you don't understand. o_O
Why are you using an extreme example to argue your case?

Your whole argument is "you can't always be tough because you might get injured", which I'll rebutt with "well it's only in extreme circumstances you can get injured, injury is a reality of the game, there's no point in worrying about the extremes"

Which you use an extreme example.

Doesn't make sense, nor does it convince me in the slightest.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

jonbe54

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Posts
14,019
Likes
8,218
Location
Rural paradise
AFL Club
Collingwood
#64
Why are you using an extreme example to argue your case?

Your whole argument is "you can't always be tough because you might get injured", which I'll rebutt with "well it's only in extreme circumstances you can get injured, injury is a reality of the game, there's no point in worrying about the extremes"

Which you use an extreme example.

Doesn't make sense, nor does it convince me in the slightest.
Listen TFB I like you as a poster and love your passion for the Pies but in this case you have the wrong end of the stick and are like a dog with a bone about it. You've isolated one facet that annoys you and ignored the rest of the post and any subsequent discussion. My whole argument isn't about not tackling because you might get hurt but you've convinced yourself it is so I opt out of further discussion as its pointless.

Perhaps you are one of those still lost in worship of our forward press and beleive the only way back to the top is through tackling everything to death, perhaps you just love the sheer physical clashes and won't have anything said that might diminish that but you simply don't get my point and frankly I'm tired of trying to get it across to you.

Thank you for your stimulating discussion up to this point but that's it as far as I'm concerned.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Posts
2,096
Likes
1,088
Location
Hoppers Crossing
AFL Club
Collingwood
#67
It is expected that when the ball is in dispute, a player will do his best to get it. If he shirks it, it's soft. If someone is about to take off past you with the ball, regardless of the score, you attempt to tackle. It's called competitive spirit.
You start picking and choosing your battles because of the score, it seeps into other games.
Slightly off topic.
The last game of 2011, Geelong skip ahead and the Pies show little interest in getting back. MM says the game was gone by half time so there is no use busting a boiler to try and get it back. 94 points was a tough position to come back from a few weeks later. Word out of the Collingwood camp was when the going got tough, a few of the boys were picking and choosing their battles.
 

Mr Cannons

Team Captain
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Posts
495
Likes
211
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
San Antonio
#68
Sitting under the ball by yourself while someone is beaming down on you is the ultimate show of hardness, there is definitely players in the AFL that squib out of these contests and that is just not on, whether you're an in an under player or a outside running player, you have to go when its your turn.
It is such an inspring thing to see your team mate take a hit just so he can create a contest, it gets the adrenalin flowing and the whole team goes in harder, if your team mate pulls out you actually feel ashamed that they are on your team and just gives the other team more of an edge, because they know when its your turn to go you fall to pieces.
 

jonbe54

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Posts
14,019
Likes
8,218
Location
Rural paradise
AFL Club
Collingwood
#69
It is expected that when the ball is in dispute, a player will do his best to get it. If he shirks it, it's soft. If someone is about to take off past you with the ball, regardless of the score, you attempt to tackle. It's called competitive spirit.
You start picking and choosing your battles because of the score, it seeps into other games.
Slightly off topic.
The last game of 2011, Geelong skip ahead and the Pies show little interest in getting back. MM says the game was gone by half time so there is no use busting a boiler to try and get it back. 94 points was a tough position to come back from a few weeks later. Word out of the Collingwood camp was when the going got tough, a few of the boys were picking and choosing their battles.
And many on these boards recommend just such tactics, saving bodies for the rigours of finals play. Its a contentious field check with arguments for and against, but I've seen enough Niel Sasche's injury type to last me a lifetime.

Going for the ball and helping out your team mate is the expected Australian thing to do and rightly so in most occasions, however reckless self endangerment is stupid and can be ultimately counter productive.

Coaches are coming around to this view which is why we are seeing a rebirth of outside runner type players, more emphasis on foot, hand and marking skills. For a while there the footy world went mad over tackling machines and recruiters scoured the land for tanks, that is now passing and balance is being restored to the game.

Every player will still be expected to play their part when required but a more attacking and open style of football seems to be developing.

Works for me.
 

jonbe54

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Posts
14,019
Likes
8,218
Location
Rural paradise
AFL Club
Collingwood
#70
Sitting under the ball by yourself while someone is beaming down on you is the ultimate show of hardness, there is definitely players in the AFL that squib out of these contests and that is just not on, whether you're an in an under player or a outside running player, you have to go when its your turn.
It is such an inspring thing to see your team mate take a hit just so he can create a contest, it gets the adrenalin flowing and the whole team goes in harder, if your team mate pulls out you actually feel ashamed that they are on your team and just gives the other team more of an edge, because they know when its your turn to go you fall to pieces.
No argument there, doubt you will find any dissenters anywhere on these boards.
 

Mr Cannons

Team Captain
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Posts
495
Likes
211
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
San Antonio
#72
No argument there, doubt you will find any dissenters anywhere on these boards.
I dont define hard tackling as being a hard player, it just means you're good at tackling, thats why teams practice tackling because everyone can do it, not everyone has the courage to take a hit for the team, if you're a squib you're a squib
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Posts
2,242
Likes
1,423
AFL Club
Collingwood
#73
This discussion is really getting difficult to truly comprehend. Jonbe54 and TFB are doing my head in to the point where I no longer understand what your argument is about. Perhaps it is time for both of you to declare a stalemate position and give up. What is an OOF? Why do posters use acronyms that are not understood by ordinary people? Surely there is middle ground in between the extremities of your arguments on which you can agree.
 

jonbe54

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Posts
14,019
Likes
8,218
Location
Rural paradise
AFL Club
Collingwood
#75
If played footy since i was 8 (28 now) and 1 thing is for sure, the softer you go at a contest the more you get hurt
It's the same in any sport really I started cycling competitively 47 years ago (too slightly built for football) and its just as brutal and physically tough as footy in its way - especially in the lead pack.

It too demands courage to make the break as early as possible and sustain it, working with your team mates to stretch the opposition teams to breaking point.

It gets to a point a couple of laps out from the wire when you are so buggered and oxygen deprived that you start to wonder if you can keep the cycle from slipping down the valedrome's banked curves.

Those that succumb never feel the ultimate joy of flashing accross the line, half a wheel length or half the straight length ahead. You practically fall off the bike, stagger a few steps and collapse on the ground with your team mates smiling like an idiot because you haven't got the breath to say a word :)
 
Top Bottom