Roast Soft.Soft.Soft!

[The Donners]

Donners, You are answering your own question.

When Prismall was recruited to EFC - I stated that he wouldn't become an A Grade level, but had the potential to be equivalent to Stanton.

FWIW, I thought that Stanton was much better than Prismall on Sunday.

I recall you saying that, problem is you're forgetting that Prismall had a knee reco and is still at Stanton's level. Time will prove who's right or wrong.

 

[TheDon35]

Welsh has exactly the same excuse you used for Prismall - a complete lack of a fitness base due to a serious leg injury.

What's good for the goose...

I guess the only difference is that Prismall has been very consistent for someone coming off that sort of injury, has magnificent footskills, has the ability to accumulate masses of possessions, can cover the entire ground reasonably well and is very much on the improve as a player.

Welsh has played some fantastic games as a stopping player late last year and early on this year however his entire career has been riddled by poor decision making, poor skill execution and inconsistancy.

Goon, you're picking out one element of my quote and not recognising the bigger picture that i've outlined. This doesn't suprise me because you're only strength is baracking blindly with no real understanding of the game.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

you think??!!

According to a stat I saw a while back when were in the top few in the league for going inside 50.

Who would have thought?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I guess the only difference is that Prismall has been very consistent for someone coming off that sort of injury, has magnificent footskills, has the ability to accumulate masses of possessions, can cover the entire ground reasonably well and is very much on the improve as a player.

Welsh has played some fantastic games as a stopping player late last year and early on this year however his entire career has been riddled by poor decision making, poor skill execution and inconsistancy.

Goon, you're picking out one element of my quote and not recognising the bigger picture that i've outlined. This doesn't suprise me because you're only strength is baracking blindly with no real understanding of the game.

As far as I'm concerned, Welsh is a new player as of the Hawthorn game last year, when he moved into the middle.

His only poor games since then have come this year, after 4 or 5 games back. As far as I'm concerned, he's in exactly the same boat as Prismall, if not better off, given his best last year was far better than anything Prismall has ever produced, at Essendon or at Geelong.

 

[yaco55]

Delivery into the forward 50 is not the problem. We are in the top half dozen for it in the league.

People like you would probably think if we take Stanton out then we'd be No. 1 in that respect.

Stanton is getting the ball more over the year than Prismall. He has dropped off recently due to injury and changing of role to accommodate the likes of Prismal and Welsh.

I don't know how many more times people need to tell you and others. It's like we need to bang our head on the wall. Stanton gets tagged weekly. The coaches rate him and that's all that matters.

I'm done on the Stanton debate. It's like the age old debate about your wife/girlfriend not being good looking enough because there's a supermodel out there.

I have to agree about the entries into the forward 50.

I have argued all year that our forwards have failed to take their opportunities - esp marking on the lead and contested marking.

This has been exacerbated by the 2 L's struggling to mark the ball inside the forward 50.

 

[yaco55]

I recall you saying that, problem is you're forgetting that Prismall had a knee reco and is still at Stanton's level. Time will prove who's right or wrong.

I am content if Prismall and Stanton remain B Grade midfielders as long as Watson and Lovett get close to A level midifelders and somebody jumps out of the ground and becomes an A Grade Midfielder.

 

[GoldenboyHird_5]

Myers is the key.

Must turn out to be a Goddard type player or else we'll be relying on the likes of Cunnington, Stevens and Martin to become that elite mid.

Rarely do you get a blue-collar Sydney midfield that wins the flag. Even then, they only won one and failed to produce a sustained period of success.

 

[Winner]

Myers is the key.

The club are trying to turn him into a 30+ possession midfielder, building his endurance and core strength.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

I wouldn't read too much int it. The most critical ones tend to overlook the positives and seem hellbent on critisizing some players at the first sign of a weakness. They rarely are to be seen when it comes to commending a player.

Maybe we are sick of posters tyring to blow smoke up our arses about a guy who has a bigger reputation than is warranted.

Perhaps he is coming of a knee reco and is going ok, but he has not been this godsend some make out to be. I think that is the biggest beef, along with his inability to take the hit often enough when it's his turn.

So rather than just see all the positives, lets look at what we have first.

 

[Smyth94]

Myers is the key.

Must turn out to be a Goddard type player or else we'll be relying on the likes of Cunnington, Stevens and Martin to become that elite mid.

Rarely do you get a blue-collar Sydney midfield that wins the flag. Even then, they only won one and failed to produce a sustained period of success.

They made two GFs, won a flag, and this year is this first time in almost a decade that they haven't made the finals - if that is not sustained success then I don't know what is.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

According to a stat I saw a while back when were in the top few in the league for going inside 50.

Who would have thought?

man, not me. I won't believe it until I see it, either.

In fact, now I think about it, your stat is talking about the amount of entries into the 50, not the actual quality of the delivery.

IMO our delivery into the forward line this year has been abysmal - it is one of the factors that's done my head this year, bigtime. Over & over again we've bombed it in haphazard, and haven't given our forwards a chance.

Maybe if we'd had the volume of entry we've had, with just a modicum of quality, we wouldn't be scrapping with has-beens to make the finals

 

[GoldenboyHird_5]

Brisbane of 2001-04 is sustained success

Geelong of 2007-2010 is sustained success.

Essendon of 1999-2001 is sustained success.

All had power midfields.

Don't kid yourself that this midfield, in its current form, will take this team to a flag.

 

[Kong]

They made two GFs, won a flag, and this year is this first time in almost a decade that they haven't made the finals - if that is not sustained success then I don't know what is.

You beat me to it.

 

[yaco55]

man, not me. I won't believe it until I see it, either.

In fact, now I think about it, your stat is talking about the amount of entries into the 50, not the actual quality of the delivery.

IMO our delivery into the forward line this year has been abysmal - it is one of the factors that's done my head this year, bigtime. Over & over again we've bombed it in haphazard, and haven't given our forwards a chance.

Maybe if we'd had the volume of entry we've had, with just a modicum of quality, we wouldn't be scrapping with has-beens to make the finals

- And we have forwards who cant get away from their men on the lead
- Dont take enough contested marks when it is kicked to advantage
- drop puddings every week

EFC have the most shots from goal within the centre corridor in the AFL - which suggests that disposal into the forward 50 must be OK.

I suggest that EFC has one of the lowest ratios of crumbing goals, without having access to official stattistics.

 

[The Donners]

According to a stat I saw a while back when were in the top few in the league for going inside 50.

Who would have thought?

You misinterpreted what I meant. I meant hitting a target when going inside 50, big difference. Any old hack can kick the ball inside 50.

 

[The Donners]

- And we have forwards who cant get away from their men on the lead
- Dont take enough contested marks when it is kicked to advantage
- drop puddings every week

EFC have the most shots from goal within the centre corridor in the AFL - which suggests that disposal into the forward 50 must be OK.

I suggest that EFC has one of the lowest ratios of crumbing goals, without having access to official statistics. I agree.

I think it's well noted that we tend to look for the perfect pass inside 50 thus holding the ball up and inevitably taking the wrong option or panicking and missing a target.

 

[Smyth94]

Brisbane of 2001-04 is sustained success

Geelong of 2007-2010 is sustained success.

Essendon of 1999-2001 is sustained success.

All had power midfields.

Don't kid yourself that this midfield, in its current form, will take this team to a flag.

Yeah but Hawthorn won 2008 with a midfield lacking a genuine superstar, they were all very good and worked for each other - much the same as Sydney were in '05 and '06 - Sydney at least had Goodes who is a superstar.

Hawks had an amazing forward line and a game plan which mitigated weaknesses in defence. Geelong smashed the Hawks in the middle last GF and yet still lost - go figure?

 

[ant555]

An another reason to be angry at him. He can't come in and say the list is quite good and be bullish about it then half way through your tenure you come to the conclusion that it's not as advanced.

You continue to show very limited scope at understanding the insides of football. Off course you can change your mind on how the development is going.
Knights initially rated the group at promisng and had an idea of how he thought the players would be as he had worked with a number of them for a few years.
However you do tend to find difference in your original assesment when you begin to impliment a complete change of the game plan and style you want them to play. If they do not learn it at the pace you expected then you are not as far advanced as you thought you where.
It is a pretty basic concept

That's a fairly big mistake don't you think.

No it is not. How was he to know exaclty how the whole playing list would adapt to going in a different direction.

The constant flip flopping between sides and players is very confusing. I don't want to go in detail again but he hasn't kept his word on giving players a chance to settle and he's only ever made the hard decision after the fact.

Is this something you have just amde up in your own mind ?
When did Knights say he would just give players a go and settle them in?
His exact words where if they train hard and prove their fitness we will give them a go if their form is good enough. That is what he has said all along and players have had a go.
You can not possibly comment on it anyway as you do not see Bendigo games so you have no valid informed opinion on the form of players playing for Bendigo.

I go back to my Lovett thread. Knights put him on the trade table. If it went through we'd have been in another serious rebuild right now and we would be fighting for a bottom 4 spot. The list would be shaken up and we'd be struggling to make finals next year. The way I see it if Knights got his way and traded Lovett we'd be missing the finals under him for 3 years straight.

Once again this is a case of you having an idea and making it a fact. I will say again.THE WHOLE CLUB WAS FED UP WITH LOVETT.
It was not driven by Knights alone. The playing group had had enough. The players where sick of putting in the effort themselves and seeing Lovett just not putting in and having a free ride.
Of course we would have been worse off without him but this is a case where you have simply simplified things.
There is also no doubt that Lovett could not continue on the way he was going. If this was left alone it would have caused more problems.
He got the shock and had to pull his head in and realise he was not above the game.
On top of that if we really wanted to off load him at all costs we would have paid out his salary and he would have gone to Geelong. Despite everything you read clubs knew that he would not be at Geelong during trade week unless Essendon offered to pay half of his salary.
Kelvin you make far too many asumptions based on what you interperate in the media. You really have no idea what is going on inside.

There's just way too many errors for my liking and I don't see the Essendon culture of sustained excellence in anything he does. In fact I would go as far as saying as we are the next Freo. Up and down like yo-yo's who stand for nothing and are just here for entertainment factor.

WTF ? Do you know how extensive his plan was when he got the job ?
Part of the reason he got the job was he outlined how much more profesional the club needed to be right across the board. One of his comments was "just being Essendon is not good enough for success."
This just shows your total ignorance and lack of knowledge about what has gone on inside the club.
What don't you see ? he has come in and completly repalced the football department that over saw 6 years of failure. He forced the board to change High Performance staff becasue he thought we where having way too many injuries and a new team with new ideas needed to come on board.
One you wont know about is Bendigo was put on notice when he started and they had 2 years to get it right. They have not got it right so you will see changes on that front.

As for what we stand for they have said all along that the plan is for finals and premierships. WTF else do you stand for? What does any club stand for ?
How can you blame a coach who takes over from 5 years of rubbish for tarnishing the Essendon brand ?
FFS Kelvin the rebuild started this year!! Thats right , THIS YEAR.
New fitness staff, new development staff,ne behind the scenes technology and a new situation as far as Bendigo goes to be implimented for nex year.
They changed around 60% of our football operation at the end of last year.
The only thing they can not change is 60% of the list.

Yes mistakes have been made. Yes there have been selection issues. I will say once again that i am not saying Knights is a super coach and i dont know if he will last anymore than 5 years. He has some improving to do as far as being a coach goes but most will only judge him on part of what he has done.
He has put new systems in place and they will give us long term benifit even if we don't see the results now. There has been a new level of profesionalism put in place behind the scenes. I know becasue i have spoken to various people who have been around for a while and have seen the differences.
The driving force now is the fact that simply being Essendon is not good enough.

We have a new CEO coming on board who has a different attitude to the football departments compared to Peter Jackson.
Maybe you should waite and see what happens over the next 3 or 4 years before you start making general comments.
The challenge for you is to have a look behind the scenes rather than making a 50/50 opinion call that has that chance of being right without knowing the full reasons behind things.

You can give a blind man a gun and point him at the barn but if he hits it it does not make him a good shot. If you fire enough bullets at a 50/50 situation then you are bound to have some hits.

I will leave this with a reminder.

This year is year 1 of the rebuild.

 

[The Donners]

Of course you can change your mind on how the development is going.

Knights initially rated the group at promisng and had an idea of how he thought the players would be as he had worked with a number of them for a few years.

As I'm sure with a lot of people at a job interview, Knights told the board et al exactly what they wanted to hear. I think that is a reasonable assumption.

 

[daffo]

That slap would of taken 30 mins to produce.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

As I'm sure with a lot of people at a job interview, Knights told the board et al exactly what they wanted to hear. I think that is a reasonable assumption.

Is it? why? Maybe he had the best, most well thoughtout presenatation and had a real plan for success, rather than just saying let's gut the list.

He is overhauling the list and is making tough decisions. Perhaps if Knights had the same luxuries as some other clubs with injuries no one would be complaining.

I exepcted us to make the 8, and we have a bloody good shot at it, inline with what Jackson said (not Knights).

Perhpas the questions should be: Do you think we have regressed under Knights? Do you think we had any direction under Sheedy?

The OP of this thread was right - we are soft when it counts too often. Not to say we are soft, but that we do not have the mental capability to play the game required alwasy when needed. this is to be expected (whether wante dor not) - we are young, play a popular brand of footy and so get a lot more kudos whne we win than deserved.

Judge Knights when he gets a friggin team on the park that resembles the one we want to have. Then if we don't perform - he can go.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Unless he starts making finals....... and this year should have been a given he'll be in the Terry Wallace mode.

So much promise and excuses with very little results.

 

[The Donners]

Is it? why? Maybe he had the best, most well thoughtout presenatation and had a real plan for success, rather than just saying let's gut the list.

He is overhauling the list and is making tough decisions. Perhaps if Knights had the same luxuries as some other clubs with injuries no one would be complaining.

I exepcted us to make the 8, and we have a bloody good shot at it, inline with what Jackson said (not Knights).

Perhpas the questions should be: Do you think we have regressed under Knights? Do you think we had any direction under Sheedy?

The OP of this thread was right - we are soft when it counts too often. Not to say we are soft, but that we do not have the mental capability to play the game required alwasy when needed. this is to be expected (whether wante dor not) - we are young, play a popular brand of footy and so get a lot more kudos whne we win than deserved.

Judge Knights when he gets a friggin team on the park that resembles the one we want to have. Then if we don't perform - he can go.

All of that because of a reasonable assumption?

Regressed? No. Moved ahead? Jury is still out. Sheedy won 10 games in his last season, Knights is less than that.

 

[ant555]

All of that because of a reasonable assumption?

Regressed? No. Moved ahead? Jury is still out. Sheedy won 10 games in his last season, Knights is less than that.

James Hird won the B&F in Sheedy's last season. Knights has not had acess to a player of that quality.

 

[Bomber57]

All of that because of a reasonable assumption?

Regressed? No. Moved ahead? Jury is still out. Sheedy won 10 games in his last season, Knights is less than that.

We are stuck in Ground hog day and have been for 5 years, blaming bad draft picks/injuries/selection panel/coaching staff/medical staff on and on and on it goes, next year will be the test, nothing less than 12 wins will be a pass, no more excuses .