Toast Sorry Adam

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TradeDraft said:
I agree some people can take it way to far and Need to be Called out but that not every White Person as some people try and make people believe it is
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Well said Dave. It seems you can't discuss it without people getting angry or defensive. It isn't all white people. People from different nationaalities also do it against others from a different background.
loki04 said:
I have plenty of personal examples and so do other people. Racism is not just what plays out on the spot light.
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As do I.
 
domus said:
I will never watch either documentary for one simple reason. Both directors have stated categorically that they made them to expose the racism in our football community. No true documentary maker should ever go into the process with an agenda? Why? Because they will cut and paste the film to fit their narrative. A true documentarian has integrity. They present both sides without editing or cutting to make them look good or bad. They allow the voices from both sides to articulate their view. They leave the viewer with a choice to make based upon the facts. When you openly state the position you want to take before making the film you immediately telegraph the message that the documentary will be biased and nothing more than propaganda. Why am I not surprised that McGuire looked bad? He has also watched it and groveled at the feet of those who painted him as a racist by urging others to watch and learn. He knows who butters his bread and loves his position in the media too much to jeopardies it by saying anything else. Cowardly but smart.
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Very few documentaries are completely neutral. This movies focuses on quotes from the media , Goodes and other afl figures with a range of opinions at the time of the booing so was fairly balanced. What struck me was how hurtful the booing became to not only Goodes but other indigenous players as well. Regardless of the original intentions of the booing once this became clear it should have stopped. You really have to be a heartless a-hole to continue booing when it’s clear how hurtful it was. No doubt there was a fair bit of ignorance as to the hurt it was causing but that’s exactly why they made this doco, to raise awareness. Id recommend watching it but seems you’ve already made up your mind on the topic.
 

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HeathComeBack said:
you said you wouldnt watch the doco and never would.
i assume cos "you know what really went on?"
why else would you post something like that?
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Why are you using quotation marks when you aren't quoting me?

I don't like Goodes and want nothing to do with his Prima Donna grandstanding, that is my right and my choice.
 
Frank Gallagher said:
Why are you using quotation marks when you aren't quoting me?

I don't like Goodes and want nothing to do with his Prima Donna grandstanding, that is my right and my choice.
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Every argument about the Goodes situation was addressed in the doco. To not watch it and then come on here and announce to the world that you wont watch it is not only attention seeking but totally ignorant. The only reason you said that was grandstanding. I dare you to watch it and come back here and if you still have the same beliefs then fair enough. But i would like an honest critical opinion.
 
HeathComeBack said:
Every argument about the Goodes situation was addressed in the doco. To not watch it and then come on here and announce to the world that you wont watch it is not only attention seeking but totally ignorant. The only reason you said that was grandstanding. I dare you to watch it and come back here and if you still have the same beliefs then fair enough. But i would like an honest critical opinion.
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I know the main facts, he lost me with his behavior regarding that little girl, I don't condone behavior like that and watching every shock doc in the world won't change that.

You didn't answer the question about quotation marks either, you don't use them when you're making assumptions.
 
Frank Gallagher said:
I know the main facts, he lost me with his behavior regarding that little girl, I don't condone behavior like that and watching every shock doc in the world won't change that.

You didn't answer the question about quotation marks either, you don't use them when you're making assumptions.
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just watch the first 30 mins and see how he addresssed it and come back to me
 
Finnishpie said:
To be honest, no one has ever accused me of being racist. Though there are certain identity politics people who say "all white people" are racist, all men are mysoginist etc...

But never in a personal way.

In my opinion, you just have to weigh it up on its merits.

Racism is when you treat people who are already oppressed (or dispossessed, suffer from structural disadvantage etc) in a way that reinforces that oppression.

Indigenous Australians already face structural disadvantages that comes from Australia's colonial history. So when you boo Adam Goodes it's not the same as booing Gary Ablett. Especially when he's being booed for calling out racism (that 13 year old girl etc). It's a way of saying "shut up blackfella. We don't mind you when you're silent but don't actually speak up." The "diving" excuses were just that, excuses.

If someone accuses you of racism for something else, you judge it on that basis.
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People weren't booing him for standing up for his people. They booed him for the way he handled the 13 yo girl both at the game and then the follow up in the media, much of the talk and backlash revolved around this.

You guys seem to not be able to differentiate or separate the 2.

If Goodes did the same thing to a full grown man he would not of got the reaction he did which then set off a chain reaction of events like the aggressive Carlton CS spear throw incident worsening crowd response.

Also racism is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
www.lexico.com

RACISM English Definition and Meaning | Lexico.com

English dictionary definition of RACISM along with additional meanings, example sentences, and different ways to say.
www.lexico.com www.lexico.com

Systematic disadvantage is not race based all races get stuck in cultural poverty cycles, only indigenous now have a massive amount of help breaking it.


How is an Irish-Aboriginal AFL star footballer who has earned millions and was largely respected for most his career an oppressed person? Due to some high school bullying?

Dispossession well this now gets tricky as Australia was conquered, but yes their ancestors were dispossessed of ownership of country. Unfortunately you cant turn back time and Australia is now multicultural western country, and the reason You, I and many other people in this country even exist including most aboriginals who have mixed Blood.
They have land rights and national parks where cultural significant sites are protected. I'm not sure how you can address this any other way really without giving back ownership of country which would destabilise government and our now way of life.
They have the rights to own land as all of us do, I guess reservations are a step we haven't done. Like the native Americans have with native law on that land title.

Are you suggesting that we turn the government over and rename Australia, new identity under indigenous rule and law? That would be the nearest thing to turning back time and "repossession". Not sure how Booing effects this...
 
loki04 said:
People weren't booing him for standing up for his people. They booed him for the way he handled the 13 yo girl both at the game and then the follow up in the media, much of the talk and backlash revolved around this.

You guys seem to not be able to differentiate or separate the 2.

If Goodes did the same thing to a full grown man he would not of got the reaction he did which then set off a chain reaction of events like the aggressive Carlton CS spear throw incident worsening crowd response.

Also racism is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
www.lexico.com

RACISM English Definition and Meaning | Lexico.com

English dictionary definition of RACISM along with additional meanings, example sentences, and different ways to say.
www.lexico.com www.lexico.com

Systematic disadvantage is not race based all races get stuck in cultural poverty cycles, only indigenous now have a massive amount of help breaking it.


How is an Irish-Aboriginal AFL star footballer who has earned millions and was largely respected for most his career an oppressed person? Due to some high school bullying?

Dispossession well this now gets tricky as Australia was conquered, but yes their ancestors were dispossessed of ownership of country. Unfortunately you cant turn back time and Australia is now multicultural western country, and the reason You, I and many other people in this country even exist including most aboriginals who have mixed Blood.
They have land rights and national parks where cultural significant sites are protected. I'm not sure how you can address this any other way really without giving back ownership of country which would destabilise government and our now way of life.
They have the rights to own land as all of us do, I guess reservations are a step we haven't done. Like the native Americans have with native law on that land title.

Are you suggesting that we turn the government over and rename Australia, new identity under indigenous rule and law? That would be the nearest thing to turning back time and "repossession". Not sure how Booing effects this...
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did you watch the doco?
 
Frank Gallagher said:
He won't be getting 30 seconds of my time, I'm glad you got something out of it and don't have a problem with anyone who wants to watch it, it's not for me though.
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so what you are telling me Goodes, by saying that he didnt blame the girl and EVERYONE should leave her alone because it wasnt her fault but there was a systematic failure which needs to be addressed so 13 year old girls dont do this after education, is a prima donna AFTER HE WAS asked by the media and and you dont have time for him for that?

ok
 
HeathComeBack said:
did you watch the doco?
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Documentary directors could make Hitler look like a victim if that's the narrative they were after, the same director who did The Last Quarter could be just as convincing if he did an anti Goodes doc, the trick is not getting sucked in.

I remember that doco about how global warming was a myth all them years ago, very convincing.
 
Finnishpie said:
That's the number one racist strategy nowadays. "I'm not racist, I just hate the way blacks/asians/arabs/jews do X, Y or Z...."
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So is being critical of a certain group of people racist even if it may be true.
Here is the problem. Western societies have become places where criticism is not tolerated and people just use the tactic of labeling others as racist sexist etc to shut down conversation and discredit those who disagree with them.

If I'm not wrong people like Milo and Jordon Peterson have been banned from entering Australia.
Disgusting.
 

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HeathComeBack said:
so what you are telling me Goodes, by saying that he didnt blame the girl and EVERYONE should leave her alone because it wasnt her fault but there was a systematic failure which needs to be addressed so 13 year old girls dont do this after education, is a prima donna AFTER HE WAS asked by the media and and you dont have time for him for that?

ok
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There never should have been a next day regarding that little girl, once he found out her age (as if he couldn't tell at the time) that should've been the end of it, that's not how it played out though is it?

You're as entitled to your opinion as am I.
 
Frank Gallagher said:
Documentary directors could make Hitler look like a victim if that's the narrative they were after, the same director who did The Last Quarter could be just as convincing if he did an anti Goodes doc, the trick is not getting sucked in.

I remember that doco about how global warming was a myth all them years ago, very convincing.
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watch it
just watch it

it will take 75 mins of your day with an Platinum Membership - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/account/upgrades ;) on tenplay
 
Maggie5 said:
As do I.
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Then what are you arguing for?


Oh you mean Whites being racists? Well no one has denied here that there isn't a small minority of them so not sure your point Maggie? It's the overarching statements and sweeping comments that get peoples backs up that "white Australia is racist".

My point is race based discrimination and hate is not a white AUS only thing all races have small groups of people who fall into this category.
 
HeathComeBack said:
so what you are telling me Goodes, by saying that he didnt blame the girl and EVERYONE should leave her alone because it wasnt her fault but there was a systematic failure which needs to be addressed so 13 year old girls dont do this after education, is a prima donna AFTER HE WAS asked by the media and and you dont have time for him for that?

ok
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That was the 2nd time he went back to the media, the day after he was still naming and shaming her. He then did an about face after meeting with her.
 
loki04 said:
That was the 2nd time he went back to the media, the day after he was still naming and shaming her. He then did an about face after meeting with her.
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thats not what happened. please watch and then comment and then you are entitled to have the same opinion i dont mind. i just dont like that people when people argue from a point of being unarmed
 
HeathComeBack said:
The fact that people have already made up their mind on Adam without looking at other arguments really is sad. Yes guys we get it. you know better than everyone without looking at the facts. No worries. you guys are the best.

Anyone who says i wont see the doco because they "already know and are sick of the discussion" may not be racist, but they are totally ignorant
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Ridiculous. Would you watch a documentary about Donald Trump's presidency if it was produced and directed by a rusted on Trump supporter? What if I urged you to watch it to learn about Trump with open eyes and an open heart? Do you think it would teach you anything?
 
domus said:
Ridiculous. Would you watch a documentary about Donald Trump's presidency if it was produced and directed by a rusted on Trump supporter? What if I urged you to watch it to learn about Trump with open eyes and an open heart? Do you think it would teach you anything?
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yes
i watch everything i can from both sides then make up an opinion myself.
 
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