Spanish racism

[moomba]

Did I miss the post where someone mentioned what happened in the Blackburn Rovers v Birmingham game on the weekend? Every time Dwight Yorke went near the ball, the Blackburn fans made monkey noises. Wheres the English racism thread?

My understanding is that either one or two people made the noises when Yorke was warming up, were ejected and are now subject of a police and FA enquiry. I suspect they won't be allowed back into a football ground for the next 2-3 years.

Can't really compare that with the noises heard throughout the game from a sizeale minority if not a majority (the monkey noises were clearly audible over the rest of the crowd) at the Bernabeu.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist in English football, it does in samll quantities just as it does in every facet of life. It is not generally accepted by the police, the league or other supporters.

 

[moomba]

Besides, racism from a section of Blackburn (or any other NW English club) support shouldn't be totally surprising, especially if you've see for yourself what it's really like up there.

Nothing wrong with the NW, and even if there was it wouldn't excuse anything. I can only recall a couple of isolated incidents of racism at football games I have been to. In both cases the person concerned has been told to shut it by me, and others in the crowd.

 

[Frodo]

With all the sickness, cruelty, murders and evils of the world, can I really believe that we are taking "making monkey noises" as being a serious issue.

It's unbelievable how our priorities get distorted

Ooo...Oooo..Ooo


How about this "white insult" .....................................

it's a snowflake

 

[Frodo]

Oh, and what of the Aussie Soccer supporters chanting "You fat bastud" every time there is a goalkick. Vilification of the fat methinks. Death Penalty case maybe

 

[David Votoupal]

Nothing wrong with the NW, and even if there was it wouldn't excuse anything. I can only recall a couple of isolated incidents of racism at football games I have been to. In both cases the person concerned has been told to shut it by me, and others in the crowd.

I was referring to places like Burnley, Oldham, etc where you do have race-related problems caused by various factors, not least a lack of integration and an "us vs them" mentality, excaberated by the socio-economic situation of those towns.

IMHO the best solution to prevent such a thing happening in Australia, is by restricting immigration to sustainable levels and abolishing multiculturalism.

Places up there like Oldham and Burnley, and places here like SW Sydney, are clear and conclusive proof that some of the worst racism is in fact perpetrated by ethnic minorities rather than the white majority. Soon enough we'll all look back on multiculturalism, and ask "what on earth were we thinking".

 

[Bombers 2003]

My understanding is that either one or two people made the noises when Yorke was warming up, were ejected and are now subject of a police and FA enquiry. I suspect they won't be allowed back into a football ground for the next 2-3 years.

Can't really compare that with the noises heard throughout the game from a sizeale minority if not a majority (the monkey noises were clearly audible over the rest of the crowd) at the Bernabeu.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist in English football, it does in samll quantities just as it does in every facet of life. It is not generally accepted by the police, the league or other supporters.

'Racism exists in small quantities in english football',and the tooth fairy plays for Tottenham Spurs.Right-o.

 

[David Votoupal]

Well, look at it this way. Yes I think racism in sport is deplorable, but is it really worth throwing the dummy and creating moral panic, which gives bigots greater exposure? No it isn't.

Of course, a few racist comments from white people are obviously seen as evil and inexcusible but- how about the attack on the pensioner in Oldham which sparked the race riots, which was clearly a racist attack? Or the gang rapes of young women in Sydney, clearly racist and violent attacks but yet we heard some do-gooders try and play down the racial element in those rapes and accuse wider society of prejudice. Or what we see in places like Zimbabwe and the Sudan?

The point is, that whenever we see a "white on non-white" racial incident, it's always highlighted by the media as an indicator of society being racist, but when you have "non-white on white" racism it's somehow downplayed or even excused.

 

[Weaver]

Well, look at it this way. Yes I think racism in sport is deplorable, but is it really worth throwing the dummy and creating moral panic, which gives bigots greater exposure? No it isn't.

Yes it is because inch by inch the sittuation improves. 30-40 years ago someone might insult another by calling them a Prot or a Mick, nowdays if someone insulted you that way you'd look at them funny and burst out laughing because it is so ridiculious.

Similarly you sit in the stands at an AFL match and the numbers who use racisim declines every year and they are more and more likely to be shouted down as an imbecile.

The more often the message gets out the better.

 

[dan warna]

Racism in british crowds is legendary.

some clubs have a long reputation of violence towards other nationalities, immigrants and even other club members.

there are strong links between soccer hooliganism and neo nazi's.

SBS did a great documentary on a guy who went undercover (including getting a tattoo) into a soccer gang, secretly videotaping the neo nazi's and there connections with the police, euro hooligans etc.

while FA are clamping down on it, it was not unusual in the mid to late 90s for England, or english soccer teams to play to empty stadiums because they didn't trust the british fans.

Of course other nations have hooligans as well, but the brits got it down to a fine art through the 80s and 90s.

wire fences dividing supporters, armed police escorts etc.

 

[David Votoupal]

Racism in English football has generally declined over the last 20 years, that we should not doubt.

All clubs have their share of moronic fans, but unfortunately some (due to various factors) have a higher % of it than others. Millwall, Stoke and Cardiff are especially bad in this respect, and in Cardiff's case their chairman (who happens to be a Lebanese immigrant by the name of Sam Hammam) has been accused of turning a blind eye to hooliganism and even encouraging Welsh nationalism and anti-English racism.

 

[dan warna]

Racism in English football has generally declined over the last 20 years, that we should not doubt.

All clubs have their share of moronic fans, but unfortunately some (due to various factors) have a higher % of it than others. Millwall, Stoke and Cardiff are especially bad in this respect, and in Cardiff's case their chairman (who happens to be a Lebanese immigrant by the name of Sam Hammam) has been accused of turning a blind eye to hooliganism and even encouraging Welsh nationalism and anti-English racism.

what is wrong with welsh nationalism? anti english racism is a different issue all together.

If israel can have independance after 2000 odd years then why not wales, after only 600 years of occupation?

further anti asian (sub-continental) racism and anti black racism is rampant in england, although it is off the press over the past few years.

I applaud the attempts by the FA to ban the hooligans, although those who commit violent crimes (such as assault) should be gaoled.

 

[demon_dave]

Before the game vs England the Spanish coach referred to Thierry Henry as a ni gger. There was no pressure at all for him to resign and he didnt even apologise to Henry. During the game every time a black English player touched the ball large sections of the ground starting doing chimp impersonations. This regularly happens to black players with English clubs in the Champions league in much of Europe.

Can you imagine an AFL coach referring to someone in this manner and getting away with it? I can not recall a situation where I have been at an AFL match and a player has been racially abused by the crowd at the MCG or Telstra.

For those who think Australia is chronically racist, this is just another example to show that in comparison to other countries we are very tolerant.

its well known that the most racist in this country are the people with Italian , Greek, lebanese etc etc origin

 

[dan warna]

its well known that the most racist in this country are the people with Italian , Greek, lebanese etc etc origin

Its funny that the most racist people I've come accross in Aus are English Ex pats, and also the LEAST racist people I've come across in Aus are also english ex pats.

they seem to be either perfectly normal decent people or reprobate scumbag racists looking for a fight. I remember one game (WCE v Saints at Waverley) a bunch of english ex pats in WCE were absolutely filthy racist filthy pigs, also a fair few english 'bovver boys' seem attracted to collingwood in Melbourne.

I do know, basically through the missus who is an irish lass, plenty of other pommes who are 100% against the attitude of those other idiots.

as for italians, I've known plenty of italians and perhaps it is the older gen, but those in my social group have no racist tendencies that I can detect.

 

[demon_dave]

Its funny that the most racist people I've come accross in Aus are English Ex pats, and also the LEAST racist people I've come across in Aus are also english ex pats.

they seem to be either perfectly normal decent people or reprobate scumbag racists looking for a fight. I remember one game (WCE v Saints at Waverley) a bunch of english ex pats in WCE were absolutely filthy racist filthy pigs, also a fair few english 'bovver boys' seem attracted to collingwood in Melbourne.

I do know, basically through the missus who is an irish lass, plenty of other pommes who are 100% against the attitude of those other idiots.

as for italians, I've known plenty of italians and perhaps it is the older gen, but those in my social group have no racist tendencies that I can detect.

agree with you on 'poms', as well as ex-pat South Africans, especially in Perth which is full of both

 

[David Votoupal]

what is wrong with welsh nationalism? anti english racism is a different issue all together.

If israel can have independance after 2000 odd years then why not wales, after only 600 years of occupation?

further anti asian (sub-continental) racism and anti black racism is rampant in england, although it is off the press over the past few years.

I applaud the attempts by the FA to ban the hooligans, although those who commit violent crimes (such as assault) should be gaoled.

Nothing wrong with Welsh nationalism, but Hammam had apparently tried to misuse it to create an "us vs them" mentality around the club mixed with anti-English racism.

Anti-black/Asian racism off the press? Surely not... racial incidents are always reported and some relatively minor ones are even blown out of proportion.

Now, some of the most racist people you'll come across aren't British, or Anglo-Australians- in fact you'll find worse racism from ethnic groups and Aborigines, but somehow it isn't termed "racism" and hence usually goes unpunished.

 

[Former]

Now, some of the most racist people you'll come across aren't British, or Anglo-Australians- in fact you'll find worse racism from ethnic groups and Aborigines, but somehow it isn't termed "racism" and hence usually goes unpunished.

That is an empty statement. Some of the most racist people you'll come across ARE British or Anglo-Australians and their crap usually goes unpunished.

Quick pseudo-psycho-socio analysis of the issue, with several holes that some people are sure to pick at:

The thing about racism is that it is a power game. Powerless people transfer their own woes onto another group, giving them an object of hate when it is a part of themselves they really hate. Their own inability to get a job, find a partner, whatever.

We were out to dinner in Brisbane recently and an Aboriginal guy was walking through West End screaming out about white bastards, etc etc. Apart from being slightly wary that he might turn violent we went on with our evening without it really having any effect. That man has no power to make me upset over his ranting. He can hate me, as a white man, all he likes but in the end he is just one man with no power over me. For his own good he should start looking to himself for reasons for his current situation, but that's my only concern about his racist outlook.

However people or groups in powerful positions should have more humility, and racist comments and actions are, in society's eyes, far less tolerable when coming from them. Or should be. They've got the power. Being racist is just poor form. Being a sore 'winner'. Ray Martin is the figurehead of one of the worst offenders. "Asians, are they coming in and taking our jobs?" (viewer: Hey, I have no job, it must be the Asians!) and "Young people, are they just dole-bludgers and criminals?" (viewer: Hey, I'm old and poor, it must be the fault of those rotten kids!) is the sort of deplorable garbage that spews forth from his hateful, hypocritical little TV show. But the content of those current affairs shows is just a reflection of the people who watch them, just like child pornography is a reflection of the people who make and view it.

Hateful people should be publicly mocked and re-educated (and suspended from BigFooty ).

 

[M29]

Racism in british crowds is legendary.

some clubs have a long reputation of violence towards other nationalities, immigrants and even other club members.

Which ones? Most racism was aimed at black players. Monkey chants, throwing bananas on the picth.

there are strong links between soccer hooliganism and neo nazi's.

Not really. The 'National Front' has been known to go to games and leave pamphlets around. But there has never been solid proof that Hooligans are all nazis. Unless you watch movies like I.D.

SBS did a great documentary on a guy who went undercover (including getting a tattoo) into a soccer gang, secretly videotaping the neo nazi's and there connections with the police, euro hooligans etc.

I assume you're talking of the Chelsea Headhunters?

Of course other nations have hooligans as well, but the brits got it down to a fine art through the 80s and 90s.

wire fences dividing supporters, armed police escorts etc.

There was a theory that if you treated people like pigs, (put them up in the pens fences etc) that they would behave like pigs.

 

[DB10]

While i find the spanish coach's attitude unacceptable,REMEMBER that pommy soccer fans are still responsible for more atrocities then spanish fans are.

NEVER call a hooligan a fan and lump them with the rest of us who follow the sport properly.

 

[Bombers 2003]

NEVER call a hooligan a fan and lump them with the rest of us who follow the sport properly.

O,i agree.But they claim to be 'fans',but that's a different question entirely.