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St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

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The first round compensation pick that we had to lose our second best defender in his prime for?
Does it not sound like a rort to you that you get rewarded for being unable to keep a player? Or is that kind of draft rort acceptable?

Mind you, northern academies aren't even a rort because it incentivises producing talent in non-traditional states.
 
Victorian clubs already have priority access to Victorian players, this has been going on since well before academies existed.

I am not sure if players say they do not want to be drafted, it is against the rules to do so. I think GWS had an issue with losing a lot of players to the "go home" factor and when we traded pick 1 to them they wanted to draft Cadman because he was really open to remaining in Sydney long-term.

It is a fundamental problem for states that do not produce enough talent, Brisbane had a lot of issues when they had problems holding on to players, it wasn't really QLD which was the problem as Fagan changed things pretty quickly.

The difference is it’s informal with draftees telling interstate clubs they don’t want to be drafted away from Melbourne. Happens every year.

Do you have proof of this? There have been rumours some players deliberately tanked interviews but I haven't seen anything said officially nor has the AFL taken action against many players.

Players going home isn't just a Victorian issue. It is the pitfall of recruiting boys so young.
 
I am not sure if players say they do not want to be drafted, it is against the rules to do so. I think GWS had an issue with losing a lot of players to the "go home" factor and when we traded pick 1 to them they wanted to draft Cadman because he was really open to remaining in Sydney long-term.

It is a fundamental problem for states that do not produce enough talent, Brisbane had a lot of issues when they had problems holding on to players, it wasn't really QLD which was the problem as Fagan changed things pretty quickly.



Do you have proof of this? There have been rumours some players deliberately tanked interviews but I haven't seen anything said officially nor has the AFL taken action against many players.

Players going home isn't just a Victorian issue. It is the pitfall of recruiting boys so young.

I’ll make sure to wear a wire next time so I can get you some proof.
 
I’ll make sure to wear a wire next time so I can get you some proof.

So you made it up? There is nothing in the media about players refusing to go where they are drafted?
 

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So you made it up? There is nothing in the media about players refusing to go where they are drafted?

It’s true but its of no consequence to me whether you believe it or not, ya know.
 
So you made it up? There is nothing in the media about players refusing to go where they are drafted?


It was a dumb thing to say, but he didn't say he would not go, he said it wouldn't be in their best interest.

TBH, I wish JHF said that to us instead of waste a year of our time.
 
Does it not sound like a rort to you that you get rewarded for being unable to keep a player? Or is that kind of draft rort acceptable?

Mind you, northern academies aren't even a rort because it incentivises producing talent in non-traditional states.
Interesting how you shift the definition of "rort" in the same way you claim that I am.
 
lol yes there is Archie Perkins, comes to mind just because you dont know whats going on doesnt make it true, do your own research we shouldn't have to tell you

It is fine to give opinions, but if you make claims you say are factual, you need to pony up. Otherwise it is just bullshit.
 
Do you have proof of this? There have been rumours some players deliberately tanked interviews but I haven't seen anything said officially nor has the AFL taken action against many players.
Chad Wingard openly told GWS he'd go home after two years if they drafted him. Yes he's from SA, but I think subsequently the AFL made it really clear players would get the hammer brought down on them if that happened again, so they all use excuses with plausible deniability. In 2018 a Victorian draft prospect apparently had a medical certificate saying leaving Victoria would be detrimental to his mental health. Don't think it was ever publicly reported whom, but it's widely believed to have been Bailey Smith.
 
Chad Wingard openly told GWS he'd go home after two years if they drafted him. Yes he's from SA, but I think subsequently the AFL made it really clear players would get the hammer brought down on them if that happened again, so they all use excuses with plausible deniability. In 2018 a Victorian draft prospect apparently had a medical certificate saying leaving Victoria would be detrimental to his mental health. Don't think it was ever publicly reported whom, but it's widely believed to have been Bailey Smith.

Two years, so he would play out his contract? You want an 18 year old to make a life commitment?

This thread is turning out like the MeToo movement, first it was about sexual predators and degenerated to be about bad dates. This thread is being derailed by some pretty petty gripes.
 
Two years, so he would play out his contract? You want an 18 year old to make a life commitment?
If you think that's fine, then don't moan about JHF.

This thread is turning out like the MeToo movement, first it was about sexual predators and degenerated to be about bad dates. This thread is being derailed by some pretty petty gripes.
Wow, dude, that's pretty low. I had some respect for you before reading that.
 

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Two years, so he would play out his contract? You want an 18 year old to make a life commitment?

This thread is turning out like the MeToo movement, first it was about sexual predators and degenerated to be about bad dates. This thread is being derailed by some pretty petty gripes.
The academies are 2 fold, to develop the game and to help interstate teams with retention, it’s not difficult to understand, having played come and go after 2 years leaves your club no where and the academies help with retention as a greater percentage of the list will be from the state, absolutely mind numbing how dumb people are
 
Chad Wingard openly told GWS he'd go home after two years if they drafted him. Yes he's from SA, but I think subsequently the AFL made it really clear players would get the hammer brought down on them if that happened again, so they all use excuses with plausible deniability. In 2018 a Victorian draft prospect apparently had a medical certificate saying leaving Victoria would be detrimental to his mental health. Don't think it was ever publicly reported whom, but it's widely believed to have been Bailey Smith.
Would have thought the drugs Smith uses would have a more detrimental effect on his mental health.
 
except its not just a claim, its widely known and I gave an example of someone who publicly said it, behind close doors its happening all the time

The issue at heart isn't really the initial contract. Clubs want their top end picks to be around a lot longer than 2 or 3 years.

I don't think there is much if any evidence of players saying they will not go where they will be drafted. Clubs don't want someone that is going to piss off after their first contract.

I think this is what GWS had issues with, because they were producing a lot of good talent but it was a revolving door. They didn't have an issue of kids refusing to go there, many just wouldn't make long term commitments.

It is the fundamental problem with a lack of equivalent local talent, you can't mitigate that loss by either selecting local talent or trading for it, because there isn't enough of them around.

It is a fundamentally different problem to being given guaranteed access to local talent. It doesn't solve players from different states wanting to go home, that is something everyone deals with.
 
If you think that's fine, then don't moan about JHF.

I have never complained about JHF, I've been pretty open that I wouldn't have wanted to go there at that period of time if I was a player, and I am a rusted on supporter.

I just don't think he should have said he was keen on going without giving at least the full contract a crack. If he did plan on bailing after his initial contract and was open about it we could have taken Callaghan instead. We traded him after his first year and got Wardlaw out of that shit trade. There is usually good Victorian talent in the draft, wherever you are in the draft. We take plenty of players from SA and WA and generally do not have major issues with people wanting to leave. But everyone has to deal with players that want to go home or to a particular state.


Wow, dude, that's pretty low. I had some respect for you before reading that.

Why? Because you have taken a thread about a specific issue and flooded it with every Victorian gripe you could think of?
 
I have never complained about JHF, I've been pretty open that I wouldn't have wanted to go there at that period of time if I was a player, and I am a rusted on supporter.
Uhhh...
TBH, I wish JHF said that to us instead of waste a year of our time.
This is a complaint.

There is usually good Victorian talent in the draft, wherever you are in the draft. We take plenty of players from SA and WA and generally do not have major issues with people wanting to leave. But everyone has to deal with players that want to go home or to a particular state.
They sure do. And, the states that don't produce a full AFL list worth of talent will get it worse than anyone else, as Brisbane found out in 2013. The solution is to heavily invest in local talent in Queensland and NSW, so then everyone has similar levels of risk and mitigation potential. The AFL failed when they tried to do it themselves, whereas the Northern Academy system has worked better so far.

As I've said before, if the AFL want to try again and do it properly this time, I'd be willing to discontinue club academies. But, they don't. And I don't think they will until the Suns have had a few years of success. The best that they'll do is tighten up the matching rules.

Why? Because you have taken a thread about a specific issue and flooded it with every Victorian gripe you could think of?
Nice melt. I have many more gripes with Victoria that I haven't mentioned actually.
 
Uhhh...

This is a complaint.

It is not a complaint about JHF, more about the system. I wish there was more honesty, if he had no intention of staying longer than his first contract then I think players should be allowed to say that and clubs can then take the risk of taking that player or opt for someone who is less of a flight risk.

We could have then seriously hocked that pick off for the best outcome for our club. Similarly, West Coast is starring down the barrel of potentially losing Harley Reid and if he picks Geelong then they are going to get bent over on that trade.


They sure do. And, the states that don't produce a full AFL list worth of talent will get it worse than anyone else, as Brisbane found out in 2013. The solution is to heavily invest in local talent in Queensland and NSW, so then everyone has similar levels of risk and mitigation potential. The AFL failed when they tried to do it themselves, whereas the Northern Academy system has worked better so far.

I wouldn't be surprised because the AFL doesn't have much experience at grass roots talent development, the reason Victoria generates so much talent is because of the two major school leagues, you learn **** all in the AFL junior competition, it is just a showcase for the available talent.

But, they have the blueprint of what works now, be it the type of well funded school competition or what the academies do. They have the scope of doing what the Academies are doing at a larger scale.

The desire is for the competition to be a level playing field, the any given Sunday approach, as much as humanly possible and for the draft to be the mechanism to distribute talent to allow that to happen. There have just been too many things introduced or evolve which makes it very hard for the draft doing what it is meant to do. There is too much talent going where it isn't needed and not enough going where it is needed. It is why we are seeing the same teams in the finals every year with a few that come in or go out. It is not just Academies, it is Father-Son, Free Agency, Third Party deals, etc.

If the AFL gets it wrong, it just isn't going to achieve the level playing field objective.


As I've said before, if the AFL want to try again and do it properly this time, I'd be willing to discontinue club academies. But, they don't. And I don't think they will until the Suns have had a few years of success. The best that they'll do is tighten up the matching rules.

Something has to change, because even if the player you are developing is a B or C grade player, it gives you a significant advantage allowing a club to guide those players through their system. AFL allows very restricted access to junior players in Victoria, I think it is the same in SA and WA.

I'd prefer if we go back to the U19 days, because my club dominated that competition, the development of youth was what we excelled at, it is where Dennis Pagan came from. Our experience from the days of zones and the junior competition was that a handful dominated it and nobody else had a hope in hell of winning a flag. We are recreating old problems that we had already solved because the AFL wants to speed the growth of the game in the northern states.

I don't think it is worth having that legacy marked with a question mark because the dice were loaded. At the end of the day this is a professional sport and a competition, that should be the priority, not market share and profits. We want it all, but it should happen organically.


Nice melt. I have many more gripes with Victoria that I haven't mentioned actually.

lol
 

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Maybe if Ross Lyon had a game plan that involved not making the opposition fall asleep stkilda would have better luck retaining players, attracting free agents and making father sons.
came to gloat over beating 14th, well done champ, your ego must be sufficiently pumped
 
Scores were level when I posted it you big sook
I'm a sook where your posting completely irrelevant trash unrelated to the thread. your ego must be really small
 
I'm a sook where your posting completely irrelevant trash unrelated to the thread. your ego must be really small

Saints play boring footy.

Sounds like TDK is staying at Carlton, even with the saints offering 1.7.

Father/sons and academies are not stkildas problem.

Ross couldn’t get it done with Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Joey, Milne etc… not going to happen with Brad hill, Jack steele and camaniti.
 
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