St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[Mat Mann]

Why do some St Kilda fans think the abolishment of the Victorian country zones in 1986 suddenly turned it into an "uncompromised draft" era for the following 20 years? You're not the first I've seen suggest this, but if you look into it then you'll find it's not true at all. The late 80s, 90s and early 2000s are probably the MOST compromised years in terms of drafting. West Coast were given exclusive/priority rights to all WAFL players for many years (even while winning flags), Brisbane were given exclusive/priority rights to SANFL, QAFL & NTFL players, Adelaide were later given exclusive rights to all SANFL players for several years, Fremantle were given 20+ pre-draft selections as well as zone access to WAFL players for several years, Port Adelaide were given zone access to SANFL players for several years.

It was also the era in which priority picks became really prominent and that obviously compromises the draft by pushing other picks back in the draft order. The priority picks allowed struggling clubs to speed up the rebuild process by acquiring multiple top end picks in the same year e.g. St Kilda finished dead last in 2000 and were able to get five top 5 picks in Riewoldt + Koschitzke in 2000, Ball + Clarke in 2001 and Goddard in 2002 over three drafts instead of just getting the standard three picks in those years. Two years later, the Saints find themselves in a prelim and lose by a single kick to the eventual premiers.

The truth is those years were anything but uncompromised. Just because it fits the narrative that the Saints are currently trying to push, doesn't mean it's true. In reality, what that era of drafting actually shows is the AFL is able to manufacture more equal on field outcomes by heavily compromising the draft.

Laughable, you're listing start-up concessions for the then newly expanding AFL teams.

for Example WC was excluded from the early drafts
" West Coast was given exclusive access to players from the WAFL to form its 35-man inaugural squad, but was excluded from the National Draft. The club was also permitted to sign up to six players from rival VFL clubs, but Glendinning, Phil Narkle (St Kilda) and Dean Turner (Fitzroy) were the only three to head west."

Adelaide again allowed to form a 35-man squad. frozen out of the draft but given access to SA state players for 3 years.

as for the Saints and priority picks, GCS has had more priority picks than St Kilda. Ignore the good drafting, Ignore the good trading, it was all because of two players.............
Goddard wasn't a priority Pick FYI

The difference again is that GCS still has priority access to players, 4 in the last 2 years alone, possibly another 3 1st round this year again, and like the priority pick system, change happened. It's been 14 years for the 2 new clubs, 50 years for the other 2, how much longer does the special treatment continue?

St Kilda won 3 games in a 2 year period for that concession, Brisbane won a premiership and got 2 top 20 picks, GCS will make finals and will get access to their kids high in the 1st round.

Give me the priority pick system because you at least have to be bad to get them, not just be the AFL's nepo teams

 

[WillHayward]

I’ve got no issue to be honest with clubs in non afl states having academy’s I understand the role they play is important. But the first 4 picks in the draft for the teams that finish bottom 4 should absolutely be off limits and uncompromised picks

Sensible.
The Lions could go back to back flags then pick up Daniel Annable which seems harsh on the Saints and Norf.

But Saints really need to get their own internal house in order and stop worrying about things outside their control.

The big picture is unless the game is grown in NSW and Queensland the whole AFL is doomed to mediocrity.

This is just a cold hard fact of demographics.

So the AFL isn't going to be taking away any advantages held by the Qld clubs anytime soon.

Qld is the probably the most important things keeping the AFL alive in the future.

If it was up to some saints fans they would destroy the golden goose.

 

[fnerd]

So because we are going to get some flukey mid 20s NGA pick we should stop complaining about Gold Coasts multiple top 20 picks every year?

Ok

Yeah it’s akin to that old liberal/ conservative argument retort of whataboutism that was constantly trotted out by their party’s supporters/backers and beneficiaries whenever their inherent privileges were called out and challenged and only ever done all in the name of maintaining the status quo
and its exactly the “angle” the journo was looking for in this case as well

 

[GC2015]

Laughable, you're listing start-up concessions for the then newly expanding AFL teams.

What's laughable is that you're not doing the research. West Coast were five years into their existence and had just competed in the 1991 AFL grand final when they were still give priority access to the best player in the WAFL and they had been partaking in the national draft for multiple years before that. Brisbane retained zone access to Queenslanders and Northern Territorians well after they were established in 1986 and that allowed them to recruit Brownlow Medallists Voss + Akermanis as well as NT products like Darryl White in the 90s and they obviously went on to become premiership stars with the Lions in the early 2000s. Sydney also retained zone access to NSW players in the 90s and that allowed them to recruit the likes of Brownlow Medallist Paul Kelly who led them to the 1996 AFL grand final appearance.

It's hilarious that you think drafts in the 90s were uncompromised, even if you take away the original start up concessions for expansion teams. It's just confirmation bias at this point in time because you have a preferred outcome that your president is trying to push and you're trying to justify it by pointing to a time where the league seemed more equal, even though that period was actually heavily compromised from a drafting point of view. Have you ever thought that maybe the 20 years of seemingly equal on field results were actually manufactured by the AFL through these draft compromises?

for Example WC was excluded from the early drafts
" West Coast was given exclusive access to players from the WAFL to form its 35-man inaugural squad, but was excluded from the National Draft. The club was also permitted to sign up to six players from rival VFL clubs, but Glendinning, Phil Narkle (St Kilda) and Dean Turner (Fitzroy) were the only three to head west."

Are you aware of the fact that West Coast were let back into the national draft after three years, but still retained their priority access to the best players from the WAFL? E.g. In 1990 they drafted Victoria Robbie West with pick 20 and were also given pre-draft priority access to WAFL players Glen Jakovich and Mitchell White who both went on to become premiership players for the Eagles two years later.

Sounds like a pretty compromised draft situation to me.

Give me the priority pick system because you at least have to be bad to get them, not just be the AFL's nepo teams

You know the Suns finished bottom 4 in the year we recruited those three top 20 picks out of our academy, right? You also know we've never played finals, right? It's been 15 years in the AFL and we've never finished above 12th on the ladder...

I think it's fair to say we would have fulfilled any criteria that states you need to be "bad" to get help. Many times over.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Sensible.
The Lions could go back to back flags then pick up Daniel Annable which seems harsh on the Saints and Norf.

But Saints really need to get their own internal house in order and stop worrying about things outside their control.

The big picture is unless the game is grown in NSW and Queensland the whole AFL is doomed to mediocrity.

This is just a cold hard fact of demographics.

So the AFL isn't going to be taking away any advantages held by the Qld clubs anytime soon.

Qld is the probably the most important things keeping the AFL alive in the future.

If it was up to some saints fans they would destroy the golden goose.

You and the zero orange braincell supporters always forget that St Kilda is getting our house in order and guess what that means addressing the shitshow that is the draft.

The reality that people always forget this ****ing astounding.

 

[marcus1232]

Saints apparently hard done by but WCE, at the bottom of the ladder, will have had their start of 2nd round pick at 30+ 3 drafts in a row.

Will be justice if we end up with pick 2 for OAllen.

And I hope to high hell you get it

 

[WillHayward]

You and the zero orange braincell supporters always forget that St Kilda is getting our house in order and guess what that means addressing the shitshow that is the draft.

The reality that people always forget this ****ing astounding.

Were not forgetting anything.
Saints fans repeating something over and over and over again doesn't make it true.

Maybe you have, but no evidence yet. Still yet to be determined.

Start by looking at your strength and conditioning. Getting rag dolled most weeks.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Were not forgetting anything.
Saints fans repeating something over and over and over again doesn't make it true.

Maybe you have, but no evidence yet. Still yet to be determined.

Start by looking at your strength and conditioning. Getting rag dolled most weeks.

So you just ingore anything we do.

You know Jack shit, admit you know Jack shit and double down on knowing Jack shit about St Kilda.

 

[Elixuh]

Have any saints fans explained the benefit of getting rid of academies?

 

[WillHayward]

So you just ingore anything we do.

You know Jack shit, admit you know Jack shit and double down on knowing Jack shit about St Kilda.

Ok mate.

When saints fans list a whole bunch of players they think are A graders and include Travaglia and Garcia in that list then excuse me but I'll take that list with a grain of salt and wait a little longer before I start saying what a great job you are doing.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Ok mate.

When saints fans list a whole bunch of players they think are A graders and include Travaglia and Garcia in that list then excuse me but I'll take that list with a grain of salt and wait a little longer before I start saying what a great job you are doing.

You ignore whatever we say, you are just a troll.

Grain of salt, anything you say is a salt shaker of salt.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

You can really tell which people know anything about St Kilda and flogs who don't.

 

[mighty_lions]

You can really tell which people know anything about St Kilda and flogs who don't.

sources and time stamps please Stan

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Sensible.
The Lions could go back to back flags then pick up Daniel Annable which seems harsh on the Saints and Norf.

But Saints really need to get their own internal house in order and stop worrying about things outside their control.

The big picture is unless the game is grown in NSW and Queensland the whole AFL is doomed to mediocrity.

This is just a cold hard fact of demographics.

So the AFL isn't going to be taking away any advantages held by the Qld clubs anytime soon.

Qld is the probably the most important things keeping the AFL alive in the future.

If it was up to some saints fans they would destroy the golden goose.

I understand your points but there is no other major sporting codes in the world that give out the amount of concessions and help that the afl do to clubs and allow there drafts to be so compromised. . I’m not saying put a stop to academy’s but the system can not continue to operate in current form . The bottom four clubs should be able to pick who they want if there are academy or father son players involved there attached club would need to trade for a top 4 pick . It’s a broken system where a generational talent like Darcy can walk into a top 8 team .

 

[WillHayward]

I understand your points but there is no other major sporting codes in the world that give out the amount of concessions and help that the afl do to clubs and allow there drafts to be so compromised. . I’m not saying put a stop to academy’s but the system can not continue to operate in current form . The bottom four clubs should be able to pick who they want if there are academy or father son players involved there attached club would need to trade for a top 4 pick . It’s a broken system where a generational talent like Darcy can walk into a top 8 team .

AFL is unique in that we can't just import international players to fill a shortage.

Almost all players are home grown (besides the Irish).

Given the fertility rate is 1.63, then if we cant grow the game in NSW and Qld the whole comp is doomed.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

AFL is unique in that we can't just import international players to fill a shortage.

Almost all players are home grown (besides the Irish).

Given the fertility rate is 1.63, then if we cant grow the game in NSW and Qld the whole comp is doomed.

I can totally understand Sydney and gws being nrl heartland , but I would love to see population demographics for the Gold Coast and how many residents are actually from eastern states originally therefore them and there families are already supporting/playing afl

 

[Elixuh]

I understand your points but there is no other major sporting codes in the world that give out the amount of concessions and help that the afl do to clubs and allow there drafts to be so compromised. . I’m not saying put a stop to academy’s but the system can not continue to operate in current form . The bottom four clubs should be able to pick who they want if there are academy or father son players involved there attached club would need to trade for a top 4 pick . It’s a broken system where a generational talent like Darcy can walk into a top 8 team .

Theres no other major national sporting code in the world that has over half of the teams (I’m including Geelong) in the same city. That creates a host of advantages and disadvantages which can never be remedied. The name of the game is therefore balancing the inequalities. Not getting rid of things some teams don’t like which is what Fred Basset is proposing.

 

[mighty_lions]

I understand your points but there is no other major sporting codes in the world that give out the amount of concessions and help that the afl do to clubs and allow there drafts to be so compromised. . I’m not saying put a stop to academy’s but the system can not continue to operate in current form . The bottom four clubs should be able to pick who they want if there are academy or father son players involved there attached club would need to trade for a top 4 pick . It’s a broken system where a generational talent like Darcy can walk into a top 8 team .

since when does AFL have to be the same, the salary cap is equalisation, the academy broadens the draft pool and helps retention in non traditional AFL states and father sons every one has the same right your club is just sooking because they haven't had any, not because its a bad rule or needs to be changed

 

[mighty_lions]

since when does AFL have to be the same, the salary cap is equalisation, the academy broadens the draft pool and helps retention in non traditional AFL states and father sons every one has the same right your club is just sooking because they haven't had any, not because its a bad rule or needs to be changed

also you keep saying trade for top 4 pick, what happens if the club choses not to trade? basically your saying you can have the shit ones but not the good ones

 

[RonnieRaven]

Happy to be a vic club that poach others though
Henry kicked a nice goal today

 

[Tasmanian saint]

also you keep saying trade for top 4 pick, what happens if the club choses not to trade? basically your saying you can have the shit ones but not the good ones

The draft is supposed to be a form of equalisation designed to help clubs that are struggling on field the club that finishes last should have the opportunity to pick the best player , the bidding system the afl have is absolutely laughable

 

[mighty_lions]

The draft is supposed to be a form of equalisation designed to help clubs that are struggling on field the club that finishes last should have the opportunity to pick the best player , the bidding system the afl have is absolutely laughable

you didnt answer the question and also the draft is after the trade period so how would u even know what pick the player is going to go at and then being able to make a suitable trade live on the night would be even more ridiculous and impossible thats why there's a point system already in place, also you said top 4 picks, Levi went at pick 5 so pick 5 is fine???

You also referenced the AFL to world sport, what world sport has 9 teams come out of 1 city thus creating an unfair travel advantage and also the majority of the talent pool, not to mention the grand final thats just here to stay in melbourne for another 50 years, the AFL is a unique domestic sport, making comparisons to other sports is just ridiculous

 

[botts]

Have any saints fans explained the benefit of getting rid of academies?

Fairer draft. I think that would be pretty evident if you cared to listen

 

[Elixuh]

Fairer draft. I think that would be pretty evident if you cared to listen

How will it make it fairer?

There will also be less talent available, is that an issue, especially as we head towards 20 teams.

 

[WillHayward]

How will it make it fairer?

There will also be less talent available, is that an issue, especially as we head towards 20 teams.

Saints hoping we drag the rest of the comp down to their level and then they can be competitive.

I reckon ban all "interstate" players and teams and just go back to VFL