St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[mighty_lions]

The excuses are why they are a poor club. Whinge, whinge, whinge instead of looking at themselves and what they can do to improve. Maybe it's not Collingwood and Geelong that get looked after the most, maybe it's them that exploit the existing rules the best instead of whinging about things they can't change.

St. Kilda don't have the same access to Father son picks as other clubs because they haven't had enough sustained success over a period of time and player retention. Yes historically money played a part in this but after a while if you want to improve, the excuses and whinging have to stop and some accountability set in. When your coach is more interested in whinging about the assistance other clubs get that coaching you aren't going anywhere.

Imagine whinging about gold coast, its so embarrassing a team thats never played finals and largely been a basket case for all of its existence yet they live rent free in ross's head

 

[paulige]

Ahh because pre academies there was only 1 player being drafted out of Queensland in the entire draft on average, that is not the case for wa and sa if it was they should also have an academy

Prior to academies, the 2009 draft, picks drafted from:

QAFL: 75, 84

SANFL: 2, 15, 17, 18, 52, 54, 61, 71, 73

WAFL: 4, 7, 12, 14, 20, 22, 25, 26, 28, 32, 36, 46, 55

74 players were drafted (ignoring rookie upgrades).


2010 draft picks, drafted from:

QAFL: N/A

SANFL: 3, 5, 10, 13, 14, 29, 34, 37, 47, 64, 66, 70

WAFL: 1, 2, 6, 24, 26, 35, 45, 55, 59, 60, 62, 63, 74

76 players drafted (ignoring rookie upgrades)


Across the two years, 150 players were drafted

QAFL: 2 (1.3%)

SANFL: 21 (14%)

WAFL: 26 (17.3%)

Obviously, with GC and GWS about to enter, each of these states contain 2/18 (11%) of the 18 clubs.

Unsustainable that QLD was producing 1% of the talent (and said talent went at picks 75 and 84).

I’d be happy to talk about nerfing the academies when QLD is consistently producing around 11% of draftees each year, as it proportionally would in a fair and balanced system.

It’s reasonably obvious that this leaves QLD clubs not only often paying above-market rates to retain players, but also unable to benefit from the lure of “go home”. Conversely, SA and WA clubs can actually draft a reasonable number of home-grown prospects, and then later on lure home some of the ones they can’t draft.


The academies are so clearly needed - anyone who argues otherwise has NFI about the reality of footy in other states.

Fair enough to argue how much benefit they should provide though - it’s always going to be hard to find the perfect balance. I agree it was farcical that a club could bundle up garbage late picks to pick up highly rated academy prospects (and F/S). They’ve tightened that up significantly with the change in the picks points values, and the discount reduction.

Maybe they need to remove the discount altogether, or bring in a rule where you have to use at least one pick within X places to match a bid. Obviously, I’d prefer they didn’t. Whatever the AFL do though, they have to be very careful that it doesn’t disincentivise clubs from running the academies, that the AFL themselves don’t want to run.

Pumping players from QLD and NSW into the talent pool helps address one of the great inequities in the game.

 

[mighty_lions]

Prior to academies, the 2009 draft, picks drafted from:

QAFL: 75, 84

SANFL: 2, 15, 17, 18, 52, 54, 61, 71, 73

WAFL: 4, 7, 12, 14, 20, 22, 25, 26, 28, 32, 36, 46, 55

74 players were drafted (ignoring rookie upgrades).


2010 draft picks, drafted from:

QAFL: N/A

SANFL: 3, 5, 10, 13, 14, 29, 34, 37, 47, 64, 66, 70

WAFL: 1, 2, 6, 24, 26, 35, 45, 55, 59, 60, 62, 63, 74

76 players drafted (ignoring rookie upgrades)


Across the two years, 150 players were drafted

QAFL: 2 (1.3%)

SANFL: 21 (14%)

WAFL: 26 (17.3%)

Obviously, with GC and GWS about to enter, each of these states contain 2/18 (11%) of the 18 clubs.

Unsustainable that QLD was producing 1% of the talent (and said talent went at picks 75 and 84).

I’d be happy to talk about nerfing the academies when QLD is consistently producing around 11% of draftees each year, as it proportionally would in a fair and balanced system.

It’s reasonably obvious that this leaves QLD clubs not only often paying above-market rates to retain players, but also unable to benefit from the lure of “go home”. Conversely, SA and WA clubs can actually draft a reasonable number of home-grown prospects, and then later on lure home some of the ones they can’t draft.


The academies are so clearly needed - anyone who argues otherwise has NFI about the reality of footy in other states.

Fair enough to argue how much benefit they should provide though - it’s always going to be hard to find the perfect balance. I agree it was farcical that a club could bundle up garbage late picks to pick up highly rated academy prospects (and F/S). They’ve tightened that up significantly with the change in the picks points values, and the discount reduction.

Maybe they need to remove the discount altogether, or bring in a rule where you have to use at least one pick within X places to match a bid. Obviously, I’d prefer they didn’t. Whatever the AFL do though, they have to be very careful that it doesn’t disincentivise clubs from running the academies, that the AFL themselves don’t want to run.

Pumping players from QLD and NSW into the talent pool helps address one of the great inequities in the game.

Don't be hitting these people with facts, they are just happy to keep it as the VFL, no academies and no one drafted from Queensland

 

[botts]

Don't be hitting these people with facts, they are just happy to keep it as the VFL, no academies and no one drafted from Queensland

Queensland has always produced afl players. Our best player of the last 30 years can from the goldcoast. Why should one third of the country be off limits to 80% of the clubs. The afl is trying to grow their business at the expense of their product. You just don’t want someone to take your golden goose away from you. That’s ok but you would be saying this if the shoe was on the other foot

 

[mighty_lions]

Queensland has always produced afl players. Our best player of the last 30 years can from the goldcoast. Why should one third of the country be off limits to 80% of the clubs. The afl is trying to grow their business at the expense of their product. You just don’t want someone to take your golden goose away from you. That’s ok but you would be saying this if the shoe was on the other foot

have they always? every draft? how many? what percentage? what percentage of our list were Queenslanders pre academy?

 

[paulige]

Don't be hitting these people with facts, they are just happy to keep it as the VFL, no academies and no one drafted from Queensland

Just for something more recent, 2023-24, 135 draftees:

QAFL: 7 (5.2%)
SANFL: 19 (14%)
WAFL: 17 (12.6%)

I think I can see why QLD needs an academy and WA and SA do not.

Give it another 5-6 years and we might approach that magic 11% mark.

 

[Mat Mann]

The point I was making is he chose not to come just like cooper, Same for Will Ashcroft in the Gold Coast academy no different except he chose to come also

The same Will Ashcroft that played in the Sandringham Dragons in Victoria??

Ashcroft brothers spearhead Dragons to victory

www.sandringhamdragons.com.au

Good old academies sending Kids to Vic to play in that system and still claiming it's only due to their hard work that said kid was draftable at all

 

[Philhawk]

Prior to academies, the 2009 draft, picks drafted from:

QAFL: 75, 84

SANFL: 2, 15, 17, 18, 52, 54, 61, 71, 73

WAFL: 4, 7, 12, 14, 20, 22, 25, 26, 28, 32, 36, 46, 55

74 players were drafted (ignoring rookie upgrades).


2010 draft picks, drafted from:

QAFL: N/A

SANFL: 3, 5, 10, 13, 14, 29, 34, 37, 47, 64, 66, 70

WAFL: 1, 2, 6, 24, 26, 35, 45, 55, 59, 60, 62, 63, 74

76 players drafted (ignoring rookie upgrades)


Across the two years, 150 players were drafted

QAFL: 2 (1.3%)

SANFL: 21 (14%)

WAFL: 26 (17.3%)

Obviously, with GC and GWS about to enter, each of these states contain 2/18 (11%) of the 18 clubs.

Unsustainable that QLD was producing 1% of the talent (and said talent went at picks 75 and 84).

I’d be happy to talk about nerfing the academies when QLD is consistently producing around 11% of draftees each year, as it proportionally would in a fair and balanced system.

It’s reasonably obvious that this leaves QLD clubs not only often paying above-market rates to retain players, but also unable to benefit from the lure of “go home”. Conversely, SA and WA clubs can actually draft a reasonable number of home-grown prospects, and then later on lure home some of the ones they can’t draft.


The academies are so clearly needed - anyone who argues otherwise has NFI about the reality of footy in other states.

Fair enough to argue how much benefit they should provide though - it’s always going to be hard to find the perfect balance. I agree it was farcical that a club could bundle up garbage late picks to pick up highly rated academy prospects (and F/S). They’ve tightened that up significantly with the change in the picks points values, and the discount reduction.

Maybe they need to remove the discount altogether, or bring in a rule where you have to use at least one pick within X places to match a bid. Obviously, I’d prefer they didn’t. Whatever the AFL do though, they have to be very careful that it doesn’t disincentivise clubs from running the academies, that the AFL themselves don’t want to run.

Pumping players from QLD and NSW into the talent pool helps address one of the great inequities in the game.

If academies are so desperately needed, you’re happy then if the AFL runs them and we remove the exclusive access the northern states receive, right?

Because it’s about providing the pathways and not the special access, right?

 

[paulige]

Queensland has always produced afl players. Our best player of the last 30 years can from the goldcoast. Why should one third of the country be off limits to 80% of the clubs. The afl is trying to grow their business at the expense of their product. You just don’t want someone to take your golden goose away from you. That’s ok but you would be saying this if the shoe was on the other foot

Always produced ~1% of draftees.

You’re suggesting that QLD could only be at a disadvantage were they producing zero footballers…

…but because as a state they’ve historically produced about 1% of the talent pool, there can be no disadvantage…?

 

[Philhawk]

The same Will Ashcroft that played in the Sandringham Dragons in Victoria??

Ashcroft brothers spearhead Dragons to victory

www.sandringhamdragons.com.au

Good old academies sending Kids to Vic to play in that system and still claiming it's only due to their hard work that said kid was draftable at all

Don’t be silly. It was the special skills he learnt pre 15 that made him the player he is today, not what happened in Victoria.

 

[paulige]

If academies are so desperately needed, you’re happy then if the AFL runs them and we remove the exclusive access the northern states receive, right?

Because it’s about providing the pathways and not the special access, right?

This has been addressed so many times already.

 

[mighty_lions]

The same Will Ashcroft that played in the Sandringham Dragons in Victoria??

Ashcroft brothers spearhead Dragons to victory

www.sandringhamdragons.com.au

Good old academies sending Kids to Vic to play in that system and still claiming it's only due to their hard work that said kid was draftable at all

are you ok? no one disputes Will was a good player and he lived in melbourne, he was in the Gold Coast academy for 5 years until they moved back to melbourne wtf are you on about, he was ineligible for the Gold Coast however if he had of stayed on the Gold Coast he would of been and that would be no different to Cooper hodge that old mate was complaining about

 

[Philhawk]

This has been addressed so many times already.

And as per usual when we get to this point, the truth comes out.

It’s not about the benefit of the kids and the growth of the game - it’s purely what benefits the northern teams competitively.

 

[Mat Mann]

The excuses are why they are a poor club. Whinge, whinge, whinge instead of looking at themselves and what they can do to improve. Maybe it's not Collingwood and Geelong that get looked after the most, maybe it's them that exploit the existing rules the best instead of whinging about things they can't change.

St. Kilda don't have the same access to Father son picks as other clubs because they haven't had enough sustained success over a period of time and player retention. Yes historically money played a part in this but after a while if you want to improve, the excuses and whinging have to stop and some accountability set in. When your coach is more interested in whinging about the assistance other clubs get that coaching you aren't going anywhere.

rich coming from a club that has whinged about Cost of Living for the best part of 30 years

There is no bigger whinger in the game than Andrew Pridham

 

[mighty_lions]

If academies are so desperately needed, you’re happy then if the AFL runs them and we remove the exclusive access the northern states receive, right?

Because it’s about providing the pathways and not the special access, right?

how are they going to "run them"

Having them play in the Brisbane Lions academy is what is helping them get drafted, we dont have a Coates talent league where 50 draftees play in every week

 

[Philhawk]

how are they going to "run them"

Having them play in the Brisbane Lions academy is what is helping them get drafted, we dont have a Coates talent league where 50 draftees play in every week

Are you serious? It’s currently already funded by the AFL distribution to the Lions. Only in this new system, the AFL manages the running of the academies directly themselves. Not hard to do - and I note you didn’t answer the question.

Would you be happy to remove the competitive advantage if the academies remained as well funded and run by the AFL themselves?

 

[mighty_lions]

Are you serious? It’s currently already funded by the AFL distribution to the Lions. Only in this new system, the AFL manages the running of the academies directly themselves. Not hard to do - and I note you didn’t answer the question.

Would you be happy to remove the competitive advantage if the academies remained as well funded and run by the AFL themselves?

No because ive already said it helps retention having a greater percentage of Queenslanders on the list, its not hard to comprehend, the academies do 2 things, help develop talent in non afl states and secondly provides clubs with a greater percentage of local talent

I would be asking questions of your club as to why you have not been able to trade back our players originally from melbourne, that is your competitive advantage that your club has failed to do along with all the other melbourne teams

 

[loopy0812]

rich coming from a club that has whinged about Cost of Living for the best part of 30 years

There is no bigger whinger in the game than Andrew Pridham

My comment was about coaches whinging. All CEOs and club presidents try to get better deals and push their club's agenda, that's part of their role. A senior coach should not be doing it. When is the last time a St Kilda official consistently owned the club's mistakes instead of complaining or offering excuses in a press conference.

When is the last time you heard Mark Williams, Leigh Mathews, Paul Roos, John Longmire, Mark Thompson, John Worsfold making comments like Ross regularly does about opposition teams while still coaching.

 

[StevoJenkins]

The absolute audacity from Lions fans claiming the academies benefit everyone, while attempting to draft Luke Hodge’s son through the guise of their “league benefiting acadeny”.

Thank goodness they were there to expose that poor boy to football.

Academy*

Also, Papa Hodge is on record stating that Cooper would not be playing AFL without the Lions academy. Based on that, if he wasn't in the academy, he wouldn't be playing footy.

 

[loopy0812]

rich coming from a club that has whinged about Cost of Living for the best part of 30 years

There is no bigger whinger in the game than Andrew Pridham

Since Pridham became CEO of the Swans how many flags have they won? I'll give you a hint, it's the same number of flags St. Kilda has won in the last 50 years.

 

[Mat Mann]

how are they going to "run them"

Having them play in the Brisbane Lions academy is what is helping them get drafted, we dont have a Coates talent league where 50 draftees play in every week

The same way they are now, if it's so much about "growing the game" have the AFL fund your program, happy to see a fee paid on top if necessary, but the kids go into the draft for all.

but it's not about growing the game it's about the benefit for those 4 clubs, and if allowed, there are a few Melbourne clubs that could outspend the academies 5 to 1, if the rules allowed it. I'm sure they could mount an argument that it's for the "good of the game"

 

[mighty_lions]

The same way they are now, if it's so much about "growing the game" have the AFL fund your program, happy to see a fee paid on top if necessary, but the kids go into the draft for all.

but it's not about growing the game it's about the benefit for those 4 clubs, and if allowed, there are a few Melbourne clubs that could outspend the academies 5 to 1, if the rules allowed it. I'm sure they could mount an argument that it's for the "good of the game"

I have no idea what you are going on about, its not just to "grow the game", ive made it so clear that its also help a greater percentage of the list come from the same state, you already receive this benefit because the majority of the talent comes out of Victoria

and while we are at it take away all the advantages of victorian clubs if you want to take away academies

 

[mighty_lions]

Why didnt Bassat address the NGA's at the best and fairest or does that not suit his agenda

 

[Mat Mann]

My comment was about coaches whinging. All CEOs and club presidents try to get better deals and push their club's agenda, that's part of their role. A senior coach should not be doing it. When is the last time a St Kilda official consistently owned the club's mistakes instead of complaining or offering excuses in a press conference.

When is the last time you heard Mark Williams, Leigh Mathews, Paul Roos, John Longmire, Mark Thompson, John Worsfold making comments like Ross regularly does about opposition teams while still coaching.

Didn't we hear the other big whinger in Hardwick sooking about something last week? had a sook about if it was Daicos despite 2 Saints players being in the same situation as his player.

Since Pridham became CEO of the Swans how many flags have they won? I'll give you a hint, it's the same number of flags St. Kilda has won in the last 50 years.

so as long as the Saints win a flag soon, the whinging is justified, oh no wait thats just a shit trolling attempt, so lacking in originality

 

[botts]

Always produced ~1% of draftees.

You’re suggesting that QLD could only be at a disadvantage were they producing zero footballers…

…but because as a state they’ve historically produced about 1% of the talent pool, there can be no disadvantage…?

Well if it produces so few why are you defending your academy so hard. You just want your golden goose because you know it’s an advantage. If it wasn’t you would defend it would you? If it purely grew the game but didn’t benefit you you wouldn’t care. Correct?