St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[.Shotties.]

To me this entire argument seems simple.

1) No F/S players eligible under the academy or NGA.

This has no logical basis. I know you think F/S are draftable purely by virtue of being the son of a player, but that isn't how it goes in NSW and Queensland.

 

[bluebaggerjuls]

This has no logical basis. I know you think F/S are draftable purely by virtue of being the son of a player, but that isn't how it goes in NSW and Queensland.

agree on this. However, in the case of kids living in football states, it should only be f/s.

 

[The Punter]

Father-son is more problematic than the academies as the father-son rule provides no benefit to the league.

 

[Atomboy]

First round St Kilda NGA prospect Kye Fincher was born in Hong Kong to Australian parents while his mother was completing a temporary work secondment overseas. The family moved back to Melbourne shortly after his birth where he grew up and attending Brighton Grammar as well as playing club footy for Sandringham. His grandfather, Noel Fincher, played 61 VFL/AFL matches for Footscray and North Melbourne.

Saints slammed a ‘rubbish’ AFL loophole. Now they are set to benefit from it in a draft ‘windfall’

Saints slammed a ‘rubbish’ AFL loophole. Now they are set to benefit from it in a draft ‘windfall’

www.foxsports.com.au

Fincher hasn’t even made the list of 64 players invited to the draft combine.

Going to be an amazing achievement getting picked up in the second round.

Happily enough, Gold Coast have five Academy players invited….

 

[Broski]

Fincher hasn’t even made the list of 64 players invited to the draft combine.

Going to be an amazing achievement getting picked up in the second round.

Happily enough, Gold Coast have five Academy players invited….

Nah, these Suns and Lions intellectuals exist on a higher plane than us idiots. Fincher is a late-draft pick at best at the moment, but that makes up for the Suns' gluttony of first rounders coming through - including two top-5 kids. Christ.

 

[GC2015]

Fincher hasn’t even made the list of 64 players invited to the draft combine.

Going to be an amazing achievement getting picked up in the second round.

Happily enough, Gold Coast have five Academy players invited….

Nah, these Suns and Lions intellectuals exist on a higher plane than us idiots. Fincher is a late-draft pick at best at the moment, but that makes up for the Suns' gluttony of first rounders coming through - including two top-5 kids. Christ.

Gee whiz. You guys can't even enjoy more than a few days of excitement since your club pulled off one of its greatest ever wins without going straight back to the hole to complain about the draft again. The Fox Sports article in the OP was written back in mid-June when the U18 National Championships had just begun and Fincher was named 3rd best on for Vic Metro in their opening game days before the article was released. Clearly the author thought Fincher was primed for a big National Championships.

I'll give you a hot tip - Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is/will be far better than 99% of the players available in the draft this year. Your club/supporters should be putting 100% time and effort into retaining NWM because he's a generational talent that's going to take you places. The AFL has already said the draft rules aren't changing any time soon so move on and focus on keeping your superstar.

 

[Atomboy]

Gee whiz. You guys can't even enjoy more than a few days of excitement since your club pulled off one of its greatest ever wins without going straight back to the hole to complain about the draft again. The Fox Sports article in the OP was written back in mid-June when the U18 National Championships had just begun and Fincher was named 3rd best on for Vic Metro in their opening game days before the article was released. Clearly the author thought Fincher was primed for a big National Championships.

I'll give you a hot tip - Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is/will be far better than 99% of the players available in the draft this year. Your club/supporters should be putting 100% time and effort into retaining NWM because he's a generational talent that's going to take you places. The AFL has already said the draft rules aren't changing any time soon so move on and focus on keeping your superstar.

I just think it’s important to call out complete nonsense like your original post.

Feel free to request the mods to ove it to Bay 13 now it’s been shown to be completely off the mark.

 

[Mat Mann]

Gee whiz. You guys can't even enjoy more than a few days of excitement since your club pulled off one of its greatest ever wins without going straight back to the hole to complain about the draft again. The Fox Sports article in the OP was written back in mid-June when the U18 National Championships had just begun and Fincher was named 3rd best on for Vic Metro in their opening game days before the article was released. Clearly the author thought Fincher was primed for a big National Championships.

I'll give you a hot tip - Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is/will be far better than 99% of the players available in the draft this year. Your club/supporters should be putting 100% time and effort into retaining NWM because he's a generational talent that's going to take you places. The AFL has already said the draft rules aren't changing any time soon so move on and focus on keeping your superstar.

whata load of trash
you start a thread to troll St Kilda and take one article, which doesn't even name an author for the article as gospel

"some believe" quotes. No one believed because it's pure fabrication

wishy washy article, as most are, it's as fabricated as the $2m for NAS articles, more about shitting on the Saints than it was about the actual kid, who has not been named in anyone's top 30 all year.

Truth is, again St Kilda are one of the few clubs that will not benefit from these broken systems, and the same Nepo clubs will, another 3 top 10's for the Suns, after a tailor made fixture to see them finish top 4, Brisbane another top 5, Sydney another top 10, and none of those clubs will use a 1st round pick to pay for any of them. WC North, Melb, Ess and us get screwed AGAIN because the AFL has decided some clubs are more important than others

Whatever success the Suns achieve will be looked upon with contempt by the competition, more astrisx's than an insurance policy

 

[GC2015]

I just think it’s important to call out complete nonsense like your original post.

This is the problem with quoting old posts. In mid-June it would have been reasonable to suggest Fincher could become a first or second round pick after his 3rd best on performance for Vic Metro in the National Championships, as the author did in that Fox Sports article that's linked in the OP. Now we're esentially in August and we have far more information available in terms of his draft stocks. It'd be like watching the 2024 AFL GF and then quoting a post from May last year that had written off the Lions when they had won 4 games in 11 starts and letting the author know that they got it wrong.

Having the benefit of hindsight certainly makes things easier to predict. So well done for that, I guess.

whata load of trash
you start a thread to troll St Kilda and take one article, which doesn't even name an author for the article as gospel

"some believe" quotes. No one believed because it's pure fabrication

wishy washy article, as most are, it's as fabricated as the $2m for NAS articles, more about shitting on the Saints than it was about the actual kid, who has not been named in anyone's top 30 all year.

Truth is, again St Kilda are one of the few clubs that will not benefit from these broken systems, and the same Nepo clubs will, another 3 top 10's for the Suns, after a tailor made fixture to see them finish top 4, Brisbane another top 5, Sydney another top 10, and none of those clubs will use a 1st round pick to pay for any of them. WC North, Melb, Ess and us get screwed AGAIN because the AFL has decided some clubs are more important than others

Whatever success the Suns achieve will be looked upon with contempt by the competition, more astrisx's than an insurance policy

Alright mate. Don't shoot the messenger. If you feel this strongly about it then you should probably follow it up with Fox Sports and find out who wrote the article that you believe was "pure fabrication".

 

[Mat Mann]

This is the problem with quoting old posts. In mid-June it would have been reasonable to suggest Fincher could become a first or second round pick after his 3rd best on performance for Vic Metro in the National Championships, as the author did in that Fox Sports article that's linked in the OP. Now we're esentially in August and we have far more information available in terms of his draft stocks. It'd be like watching the 2024 AFL GF and then quoting a post from May last year that had written off the Lions when they had won 4 games in 11 starts and letting the author know that they got it wrong.

Having the benefit of hindsight certainly makes things easier to predict. So well done for that, I guess.


Alright mate. Don't shoot the messenger. If you feel this strongly about it then you should probably follow it up with Fox Sports and find out who wrote the article that you believe was "pure fabrication".

it's not that hard, these kids are rated from under 16's and Kye has never been rated that high, yes he's been in the rep teams, but never at the pointy end.

as I said, the article was more about giving it to St Kilda than it was about Fincher and you couldn't wait to give it back to St Kilda because you know we are right, the Suns are the AFL's Nepo babies.

 

[GC2015]

it's not that hard, these kids are rated from under 16's and Kye has never been rated that high, yes he's been in the rep teams, but never at the pointy end.

We've seen plenty of juniors come into their draft year and bolt up the leaderboard after strong performances in the National Championships. A recent example that comes to mind is Ethan Read who made no rep teams before the age of 17 and wasn't even considered a top 30 prospect going into his draft year. By the end of the National Championships, he was a slam dunk for a top 10 pick and some thought he was even worthy of a top 5 pick. He ended up going pick 9 in the draft.

It can certainly happen if a junior performs well in the National Championships and Fincher played well in that first Vic Metro game against the eventual South Australian championship winning team.

 

[Mat Mann]

We've seen plenty of juniors come into their draft year and bolt up the leaderboard after strong performances in the National Championships. A recent example that comes to mind is Ethan Read who made no rep teams before the age of 17 and wasn't even considered a top 30 prospect going into his draft year. By the end of the National Championships, he was a slam dunk for a top 10 pick and some thought he was even worthy of a top 5 pick. He ended up going pick 9 in the draft.

It can certainly happen if a junior performs well in the National Championships and Fincher played well in that first Vic Metro game against the eventual South Australian championship winning team.

Yeah not going to argue it to death, we see kids go both ways, highly rated early then drop closer to the draft and vice versa.

The point was that only 1 article seemed to rate Fincher, from an unnamed author, not 1 of the draft rankers during the year had Kye going in the top 30 at any point, and the article seemed more intent on potting our club's views more than anything else, which we've seen a lot of this year.

much like this thread

I'm not against academies, but the cost is a joke ( FS and NGA as well) fix the cost and the angst is gone. Jumping from 18 to 4 should cost multiple 1st's, not a few picks in the 30's, Or for the Suns to land all 3 1st round kids, you should have to lose talent to obtain the capital, or future 1st's. not just sell 1 1st rnd pick and keep upselling to obtain an unproportional points system.

I thought the point was so that Qld and NSW teams had access to local kids, not to boost their access to top-end talent on the cheap.

 

[GC2015]

Yeah not going to argue it to death, we see kids go both ways, highly rated early then drop closer to the draft and vice versa.

The point was that only 1 article seemed to rate Fincher, from an unnamed author, not 1 of the draft rankers during the year had Kye going in the top 30 at any point, and the article seemed more intent on potting our club's views more than anything else, which we've seen a lot of this year.

Fair enough. I think the timing of events is really important to understand why things played out it this way. So Vic Metro played their first game of the U18 National Championships against eventual champions SA on June 8th and Fincher played well in that game. Then Fincher played an APS game for Brighton Grammar on June 14th and was named in the bests. So he clearly had momentum and was showing really good form in high level competitions so it's not surprising to see an article pop up four days later on June 18th suggesting that he could be on his way to becoming a first/second round draft pick after two really strong performances in high level junior competitions. He had a quiet game for Brighton Grammar three days after the article was released and seemingly never got back to that strong form he showed in early/mid June.

In hindsight, the author probably should have waited for a few more strong performances from Fincher before decalring him a draft bolter, but you can only base your opinion on the information you have available at the time and it certainly seemed like Fincher was on the way up when the article was written.

I'm not against academies, but the cost is a joke ( FS and NGA as well) fix the cost and the angst is gone. Jumping from 18 to 4 should cost multiple 1st's, not a few picks in the 30's, Or for the Suns to land all 3 1st round kids, you should have to lose talent to obtain the capital, or future 1st's. not just sell 1 1st rnd pick and keep upselling to obtain an unproportional points system.

I thought the point was so that Qld and NSW teams had access to local kids, not to boost their access to top-end talent on the cheap.

You do know the Suns did exactly what you suggested and obtained two future first round picks last year in anticipation for this exact scenario, right? Pick 2 Jack Lukosius was sent to Port for their 2025 first round pick and pick 13 was used in a three way trade to secure Collingwood's 2025 first round pick. So even though we already did what you suggested, something tells me you won't be happy with it and will move the goal posts again.

 

[Mat Mann]

You do know the Suns did exactly what you suggested and obtained two future first round picks last year in anticipation for this exact scenario, right? Pick 2 Jack Lukosius was sent to Port for their 2025 first round pick and pick 13 was used in a three way trade to secure Collingwood's 2025 first round pick. So even though we already did what you suggested, something tells me you won't be happy with it and will move the goal posts again.

ok lets take 2023 when you got 4 academy kids, I know the Suns did a lot of dealing, but it's what they actually handed over to acquire these players is the issue.

the Suns sold pick 4 to the Dogs for 3 1st round picks 10, 17 and a future 1st, and the year after that Carlton gave up Matt Owies, picks 12, 14 and 73 (part of a 3 way trade) for pick 3. Melbourne got pick 9 for 28 40 46 54 65 and future 1st (likely top 5 pick), also to a club looking for points over picks.


suns got below
No.3 Jed Walter - used picks 26, 30 and 32, gaining 58 and 87
No.9 Ethan Read - used picks 34, 38 and 48, gaining 49
No.14 Jake Rogers - used picks 42, 47 and 49, gaining 65
No.26 Will Graham - used picks 47 and 51, gaining 69

Nobody is selling pick 3 for 26,30, and 32, nobody
Daicos and Ashcroft were pick 4 and 5, both attained for 4 picks in the 40's

That's the cost issue. normally clubs pay overs to move up the draft positions. Academies, NGA and FS always have clubs moving in the opposite direction, making it a double blow as you will always sell high, then there's the discount, WHY????? What rationale is there for a discount?

as I said, happy for the academies to continue, but to get a top 3 pick, the cost needs to be appropriate to trade value, not an arbitrary points scale that doesn't reflect the reality of trading up to those positions.

The goal posts aren't changing; the issue still is the picks handed over. Darcy went at pick 2, paid for with 34, 42, 43, 44, 45. Absolutely nobody does that deal outside of the clubs chasing points over picks. Maybe if Dogs hand over pick 10 and 14, then more clubs might accept it. It's a dual economy that has little correlation.

yes the points curve is changing this year, but it doesn't move a lot, Daicos would be picks in the 30's instead of the 40's, still doesn't stop this dual economy from existing

 

[GC2015]

ok lets take 2023 when you got 4 academy kids, I know the Suns did a lot of dealing, but it's what they actually handed over to acquire these players is the issue.

the Suns sold pick 4 to the Dogs for 3 1st round picks 10, 17 and a future 1st, and the year after that Carlton gave up Matt Owies, picks 12, 14 and 73 (part of a 3 way trade) for pick 3. Melbourne got pick 9 for 28 40 46 54 65 and future 1st (likely top 5 pick), also to a club looking for points over picks.


suns got below
No.3 Jed Walter - used picks 26, 30 and 32, gaining 58 and 87
No.9 Ethan Read - used picks 34, 38 and 48, gaining 49
No.14 Jake Rogers - used picks 42, 47 and 49, gaining 65
No.26 Will Graham - used picks 47 and 51, gaining 69

Nobody is selling pick 3 for 26,30, and 32, nobody
Daicos and Ashcroft were pick 4 and 5, both attained for 4 picks in the 40's

That's the cost issue. normally clubs pay overs to move up the draft positions. Academies, NGA and FS always have clubs moving in the opposite direction, making it a double blow as you will always sell high, then there's the discount, WHY????? What rationale is there for a discount?

as I said, happy for the academies to continue, but to get a top 3 pick, the cost needs to be appropriate to trade value, not an arbitrary points scale that doesn't reflect the reality of trading up to those positions.

The goal posts aren't changing; the issue still is the picks handed over. Darcy went at pick 2, paid for with 34, 42, 43, 44, 45. Absolutely nobody does that deal outside of the clubs chasing points over picks. Maybe if Dogs hand over pick 10 and 14, then more clubs might accept it. It's a dual economy that has little correlation.

yes the points curve is changing this year, but it doesn't move a lot, Daicos would be picks in the 30's instead of the 40's, still doesn't stop this dual economy from existing

What happened in 2023 is mostly irrelevant now because the system has been changed as a result of exactly that. The AFL recognised that teams that had priority access to players weren't paying enough for them and they overhauled it this year to ensure teams are paying more to match bids. But even still, you have to keep in mind that we did trade good players like Izak Rankine and Jack Bowes in 2022 and received 2023 picks in return that would be used to match bids.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

This entire thread comes down to:

Fincher hasn’t even made the list of 64 players invited to the draft combine.

Going to be an amazing achievement getting picked up in the second round.

Happily enough, Gold Coast have five Academy players invited….

Its not fair, Gold Coast do a better job of developing their Academy kids than we do.

ok lets take 2023 when you got 4 academy kids, I know the Suns did a lot of dealing, but it's what they actually handed over to acquire these players is the issue.

the Suns sold pick 4 to the Dogs for 3 1st round picks 10, 17 and a future 1st, and the year after that Carlton gave up Matt Owies, picks 12, 14 and 73 (part of a 3 way trade) for pick 3. Melbourne got pick 9 for 28 40 46 54 65 and future 1st (likely top 5 pick), also to a club looking for points over picks.

Its not fair, other teams were more proactive in trading than us...

 

[Elixuh]

This entire thread comes down to:

Its not fair, Gold Coast do a better job of developing their Academy kids than we do.


Its not fair, other teams were more proactive in trading than us...

 

[Atomboy]

This entire thread comes down to:

Its not fair, Gold Coast do a better job of developing their Academy kids than we do.

I thought it was about getting access to top 10 draft picks for a handful of beans of which there have been multiple examples ?.

Reasonable misrepresentation though.

 

[Mat Mann]

What happened in 2023 is mostly irrelevant now because the system has been changed as a result of exactly that. The AFL recognised that teams that had priority access to players weren't paying enough for them and they overhauled it this year to ensure teams are paying more to match bids. But even still, you have to keep in mind that we did trade good players like Izak Rankine and Jack Bowes in 2022 and received 2023 picks in return that would be used to match bids.

Jack Bowes...... the bloke you gave away along with pick 8 for nothing, hahahaha

This entire thread comes down to:

Its not fair, Gold Coast do a better job of developing their Academy kids than we do.

missed the entire point as usual

 

[Elixuh]

Feel good story.

 

[GC2015]

Jack Bowes...... the bloke you gave away along with pick 8 for nothing, hahahaha

And yet, we received a future pick in that trade and it was used to match bids a year later. Same goes for the Rankine trade. The exact outcome you said you wanted to occur in order for clubs to match bids.

You seem to be living in the past, mate. Obsessing over things that occurred years ago, knowing full well that a lot has changed since then. Namely the rules that you appear to be so outraged about. You said you wanted clubs that match bids to be required to give up players + picks and you were given at least four examples of that occurring (three of those traded players were top 10 picks). It just seems like you're complaining for the sake of complaining and you won't be satisfied no matter what happens. Maybe that's your coping mechanism. Who knows at this point.

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

I think the first thing they need to do is remove the discount, if anything I’d be adding a points tax. 150% of where the bid comes in.

The other thing I’d add on is that you must have a pick in the round where the bid comes. Everyone knows when a Will Ashcroft, Sam Darcy or Nick Daicos is gonna go in the first round. Trading out that pick for a bunch of picks in the 40’s and 50’s is a massive scam.

Also puts clubs in a position where if they have multiple players (like the suns this year) they can’t just take 3 of the top 15, they actually have to do some trading to get the players in.

Suns get Uland with their pick, then they actually have to think is it worth matching for the others? Don’t make it such a layup for the clubs to take them.

 

[GenericUsername202]

Feel good story.

Bassat would have a stroke if we debuted him against St Kilda. If that happens, let's purposely keep the score close, then chuck him in the forward line and watch him kick the winning goal. Need a Bassat cam that day.

 

[Elixuh]

Bassat would have a stroke if we debuted him against St Kilda. If that happens, let's purposely keep the score close, then chuck him in the forward line and watch him kick the winning goal. Need a Bassat cam that day.

 

[LeBronco]

Is there another Ashcroft brother coming through? It's crazy how much talent the Lions/Suns are getting eventually there needs to be another half dozen teams in Queensland to level out the talent.