St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[Philhawk]

You don't think that GCS have historically had significant retention issues?

Undoubtedly. But why haven’t they seemed to have them over the last few years since their upswing in performance?

 

[Elixuh]

Undoubtedly. But why haven’t they seemed to have them over the last few years since their upswing in performance?

Their upswing in performance is this year and we haven’t had the trade and fa period yet.

Clubs don’t need to lose players every single year to have retention issues.

 

[Philhawk]

Their upswing in performance is this year and we haven’t had the trade and fa period yet.

Clubs don’t need to lose players every single year to have retention issues.

So despite their retention issues and poor performances prior to this year, how were they still able to attract Noble and Rioli?

Fact is the retention issues are grossly overstated and don’t even go close to defending the absurdity of rewarding them with top 5 picks every couple years.

 

[Broski]

Won't someone please think of the Suns. They are dying of thirst! Playing finals, potentially recruiting one of the best forwards of the last 10 years, and picking up several first-round talents for free.

Cry me a river when you say "but we have never played finals and have player retention issues... waaaaahhhhh." Your problems are not unique, but you have the bank of mum and dad (the AFL) to save you from your incompetency.

 

[Elixuh]

So despite their retention issues and poor performances prior to this year, how were they still able to attract Noble and Rioli?

Fact is the retention issues are grossly overstated and don’t even go close to defending the absurdity of rewarding them with top 5 picks every couple years.

Noble wasn’t getting a game at the Pies so hardly a star studded signing.

Rioli was a combination of Richmond wanting picks to rebuild and Hardwick being the coach of GCS, ie having a prior relationship with Rioli.

The retention issues are only grossly overstated if you pick a single year on which to judge it, which it seems you are doing.

 

[Philhawk]

Noble wasn’t getting a game at the Pies so hardly a star studded signing.

Rioli was a combination of Richmond wanting picks to rebuild and Hardwick being the coach of GCS, ie having a prior relationship with Rioli.

The retention issues are only grossly overstated if you pick a single year on which to judge it, which it seems you are doing.

Ok, let’s use the past 10 years?

Who are the high quality players GC players that have left that ideally GC would have loved to keep?

P.S - That Noble stat simply isn’t true and I’d love to see your proof that he wasn’t getting a game considering he went on an 83 game playing streak at the club.

 

[Elixuh]

Ok, let’s use the past 10 years?

Who are the high quality players GC players that have left that ideally GC would have loved to keep?

P.S - That Noble stat simply isn’t true and I’d love to see your proof that he wasn’t getting a game considering he went on an 83 game playing streak at the club.

List the players they’ve lost to other clubs since inception and I’ll tell you.

 

[Mr Meow]

Ok, let’s use the past 10 years?

Who are the high quality players GC players that have left that ideally GC would have loved to keep?

P.S - That Noble stat simply isn’t true and I’d love to see your proof that he wasn’t getting a game considering he went on an 83 game playing streak at the club.

May, Lynch, Prestia, Rankine, Saad and Martin. I guess you could include Ablett returning home but that was a complex situation.

 

[Philhawk]

List the players they’ve lost to other clubs since inception and I’ll tell you.

Funny how you’re adamant about them having retention issues yet unwilling to prove the point.

For the purposes of transparency I thought I’d list the academy/free agency/trade gains for the Suns since 2015 compared to the loss of their quality players who they wanted to keep in that time.

Major Losses:

Rankine (2020)
Bennell (2015)
O’Meara (2016)
May
Saad (2018)
Lynch (2018)

If I’ve forgotten anyone significant, let me know.

Meanwhile, in that time they’ve received

Trade/FA

Ellis (2019)
Weller (2017)
Rioli (2023)

Early Academy Picks:

Walter
Rodgers
Read
Graham

There’s definitely an argument that the major losses of Lynch, May and Rankine are significant - but it’s more than made up for with their acquisitions.

For what it’s worth, the Lions “retention” issues are even worse in terms of how non existent it is.

They’ve lost precisely no one of note since 2015, while receiving academy kids in Keays, Marshall, Coleman + guys like Charlie Cameron, Neale and Daniher in that time.

Farcical.

 

[Elixuh]

Funny how you’re adamant about them having retention issues yet unwilling to prove the point.

For the purposes of transparency I thought I’d list the academy/free agency/trade gains for the Suns since 2015 compared to the loss of their quality players who they wanted to keep in that time.

Major Losses:

Rankine (2020)
Bennell (2015)
O’Meara (2016)
May
Saad (2018)
Lynch (2018)

If I’ve forgotten anyone significant, let me know.

Meanwhile, in that time they’ve received

Trade/FA

Ellis (2019)
Weller (2017)
Rioli (2023)

Early Academy Picks:

Walter
Rodgers
Read
Graham

There’s definitely an argument that the major losses of Lynch, May and Rankine are significant - but it’s more than made up for with their acquisitions.

For what it’s worth, the Lions “retention” issues are even worse in terms of how non existent it is.

They’ve lost precisely no one of note since 2015, while receiving academy kids in Keays, Marshall, Coleman + guys like Charlie Cameron, Neale and Daniher in that time.

Farcical.

I don’t want to do the work to list them all out, I’ll leave that to you. List them all out lad and I’ll give you my thoughts.

 

[Broski]

I have no sympathy for the Suns, Lions, Swans and Giants in this space. The system is now set up to give them a safety net to take significant risks when it comes to player recruitment. Draft picks mean nothing to them.

They will perpetually be able to essentially triple-dip but cry foul about a boogeyman that doesn't exist. The system is set up for your clubs to succeed. Clubs like St Kilda need to be exceptional to escape mediocrity in this system.

You blokes in here spout "draft well and it won't be an issue". St Kilda have drafted better than most over the past four or so years, but when other clubs are playing finals and get 2-3 talented kids for "free", it's impossible to close the gap.

I don't expect you to agree, but I want you to acknowledge that small market Melbourne teams do not get any of the benefits that Collingwood etc get. The non-traditional states are in a more privileged position and it's not debatable.

How many A-Grade players have asks to be traded to St Kilda in the past 10 years? Compare that with how many A-Grade talents who have requested trades to QLD or NSW for the lifestyle. Night and day.

If you are happy with the AFL becoming the Premier League with the same teams competing for flags, that's fine. But that is an awful product and is an elitist view.

 

[JasRulz63]

How many A-Grade players have asks to be traded to St Kilda in the past 10 years? Compare that with how many A-Grade talents who have requested trades to QLD or NSW for the lifestyle. Night and day.

If the Queensland lifestyle is such a drawcard, where were the hoardes of A grade players requesting trades to Brisbane from 2010-2017 before we started to look more promising in 2018?

I don't expect you to agree, but I want you to acknowledge that small market Melbourne teams do not get any of the benefits that Collingwood etc get. The non-traditional states are in a more privileged position and it's not debatable.

I do agree with this though. Apart from being able to draft predominantly from Victoria to somewhat mitigate the go home risk and not having to travel as much, there's not a lot going for the small market Melbourne teams.

 

[Mat Mann]

Their upswing in performance is this year and we haven’t had the trade and fa period yet.

Clubs don’t need to lose players every single year to have retention issues.

So Saints have lost Gresham and Battle to FA. nas is still unsigned,
We have retention issues. Quick give us priority picks

 

[mighty_lions]

So Saints have lost Gresham and Battle to FA. nas is still unsigned,
We have retention issues. Quick give us priority picks

so embarassing

 

[Elixuh]

So Saints have lost Gresham and Battle to FA. nas is still unsigned,
We have retention issues. Quick give us priority picks

Putting to one side that GCS have been pillaged consistently since inception, I’d happily do that for St Kilda.

TBH I don’t even know who Gresham is or where he plays now but I’ll give you the benefit of doubt.

 

[Mat Mann]

No Fincher in Cal’s July guide, but did see Suns have 2 and Brisbane 1 in the top 5

When did the OP change the headline, it’s like catching an eel, always a different argument to deflect with

 

[mighty_lions]

Funny how you’re adamant about them having retention issues yet unwilling to prove the point.

For the purposes of transparency I thought I’d list the academy/free agency/trade gains for the Suns since 2015 compared to the loss of their quality players who they wanted to keep in that time.

Major Losses:

Rankine (2020)
Bennell (2015)
O’Meara (2016)
May
Saad (2018)
Lynch (2018)

If I’ve forgotten anyone significant, let me know.

Meanwhile, in that time they’ve received

Trade/FA

Ellis (2019)
Weller (2017)
Rioli (2023)

Early Academy Picks:

Walter
Rodgers
Read
Graham

There’s definitely an argument that the major losses of Lynch, May and Rankine are significant - but it’s more than made up for with their acquisitions.

For what it’s worth, the Lions “retention” issues are even worse in terms of how non existent it is.

They’ve lost precisely no one of note since 2015, while receiving academy kids in Keays, Marshall, Coleman + guys like Charlie Cameron, Neale and Daniher in that time.

Farcical.

lol you have no idea

Charlie dixon
cal ah chee
scrimshaw
josh caddy
tom hickey
Jeremy sharp

some of them obviously not significant but when you add it into omeara, Lynch, Prestia, may, saad, rankine it is has been a clear issue not to mention the players they dont even bother drafting with flight risk on top of that

 

[Broski]

lol you have no idea

Charlie dixon
cal ah chee
scrimshaw
josh caddy
tom hickey
Jeremy sharp

some of them obviously not significant but when you add it into omeara, Lynch, Prestia, may, saad, rankine it is has been a clear issue not to mention the players they dont even bother drafting with flight risk on top of that

Ah yes, the same Hickey (who they got pick 13 for lol), Sharp and Scrimshaw that the club refused to play lol.

Also, the Suns were fairly well compensated for the rest - Dixon (Pick 10 and a future second round pick), Caddy (third round and a first-round draft pick) and Ah Chee - who was a battler at the Suns - (a future second and a future fourth).

Spare me. Like you blokes say often. Maybe the Suns should have been a better club and players wouldn't leave.

 

[mighty_lions]

Ah yes, the same Hickey (who they got pick 13 for lol), Sharp and Scrimshaw that the club refused to play lol.

Also, the Suns were fairly well compensated for the rest - Dixon (Pick 10 and a future second round pick), Caddy (third round and a first-round draft pick) and Ah Chee - who was a battler at the Suns - (a future second and a future fourth).

Spare me. Like you blokes say often. Maybe the Suns should have been a better club and players wouldn't leave.

you do realise when you have a revolving door of players it doesnt matter if you are "compensated", also many of the players listed left after 2 years or doing basically the minimum

also the hickey trade was not just 13 so fake news

Hard to be a good club when they keep leaving, not to mention there would be no qld talent coming back that way in trade if there wasn't academies in the first place developing queensland talent, spare me the victorian bias its not the VFL anymore

 

[Mat Mann]

always a different argument to deflect with

 

[mighty_lions]

always a different argument to deflect with

sounds like bassat and ross

 

[StevoJenkins]

always a different argument to deflect with

Bit pot calling the kettle black here.

 

[Philhawk]

always a different argument to deflect with

That’s what I’ve come to realise.

There’s no good faith discussion to be had.

 

[Mat Mann]

That’s what I’ve come to realise.

There’s no good faith discussion to be had.

None, but watch them squeal when times get tough, like last time.

How much longer does the hand holding continue? Brisbane and Sydney have been around for 50 years, both won premierships, and have been in contention for multiple periods. Retention and local talent haven't been enough of an issue to stop that from happening, but somehow, after 40 years, they suddenly need special treatment.

for the good of the game, they say, yet refuse to pay market rates or allow that to be spread to all teams.

as you said, no good faith discussion, just self-interest

 

[Philhawk]

None, but watch them squeal when times get tough, like last time.

How much longer does the hand holding continue? Brisbane and Sydney have been around for 50 years, both won premierships, and have been in contention for multiple periods. Retention and local talent haven't been enough of an issue to stop that from happening, but somehow, after 40 years, they suddenly need special treatment.

for the good of the game, they say, yet refuse to pay market rates or allow that to be spread to all teams.

as you said, no good faith discussion, just self-interest

I am completely prepared to have a discussion about how the academies are vitally needed in northern states.

About how a centralized fund could be setup to pay promising kids and prevent them from joining other codes, separate to the academies, for all clubs to benefit from if they make the afl.

About how there needs to be a balance for when any of those teams who are down at the bottom of the ladder should be given extra academy incentives to encourage young kids to stay.

About how when those teams are in the top 4, they shouldn’t receive prized top 4 (number tbc) academy kids, let alone father sons funneled into the academies.

But nope, lets just cry bloody murder at the suggestion of anything changing and instead try to deflect to St Kilda in idiotic threads like this.