Starting and Rotating midfields

[Madtiger2006]

I'm excited about having a quality starting midfield and a pretty good rotating midfield in 2008. You can't go past a starting midfield of
Coughlan Foley Polo in the centre square at the bounce after a goal
I think they will do some damage next year once they get a few games together. Polo is our #1 tagger no doubt about it and Cogs and Foley should be first choice as centre clearance players.

I'm excited about our rotating midfield of
Tuck Newman Jackson

Tuck will be 100% fit and better than he was in 2007. I think he can match his 2006 form. With the emergence of Foley and Polo, we have the luxury of bringing a fit Tuck into the middle at the 10 minute mark of each quarter. I think it's time Newman was a midfielder next season. We have Mcmahon and King to take his spot in defence and can use him in the middle all season. Jacko has shown a bit and will improve further next year.

I'm praying we have seen the last of Johnson as a regular midfielder. No more turnovers, hesitation or poor decision making in the middle any more. Just a good mix of strength, speed, skill and footy smarts in the engine from now on. The engine is the most important area of any game

 

[RichosGuns]

- Our starting centre 4 Simmonds, Tuck, Foley, Coughlan (they are all in and under boys who can get the ball out)

- Players who rotate in this centre 4 as the match goes on Pattison, Polo, Jackson, King, Johnson all as tagers, Hyde, Deledio, Tambling + Newman,
Brown, Conners

- Wingman Tivendale, Newman, Deledio, Tambling, Conners, Polo, Hyde, Morton, McMohan

 

[Madtiger2006]

- Our starting centre 4 Simmonds, Tuck, Foley, Coughlan (they are all in and under boys who can get the ball out)

- Players who rotate in this centre 4 as the match goes on Pattison, Polo, Jackson, King, Johnson all as tagers, Hyde, Deledio, Tambling + Newman,
Brown, Conners

- Wingman Tivendale, Newman, Deledio, Tambling, Conners, Polo, Hyde, Morton, McMohan

I think you have too many options. I'd rarely use Hyde, Brown, Connors, Johnson in the middle. They are much more valuable in other positions. How many players do you need to play in the engine during a game? I'd like to keep it to 6 players and no more than 8 in a game. Once you start playing over 10 players in the square, I think the team loses balance and momentum and not all players can get the ball out of the middle

 

[Ah Cheung]

As much as I'm not a fan of Johnsons's, I think he's still better in the middle than Newman. Newman has rarely played in the middle and mainly been in the back half. At 26, I think if he was really going to play in the middle, it should've happend a few years ago.

 

[RichosGuns]

I think you have too many options. I'd rarely use Hyde, Brown, Connors, Johnson in the middle. They are much more valuable in other positions. How many players do you need to play in the engine during a game? I'd like to keep it to 6 players and no more than 8 in a game

I think we should effectivly play:
- 2 permanant talls (Richo + 1 of Riewoldt, Schultz or Hughes)
- 2 rucks who can go foward (Simmonds, Pattison)
- 3 tall backs (Thursftield, Polak, 1 of McGuane, Moore)
- 1 loose back (Bowden)
- 2 speacilist small fowards who spend 70%+ up foward (Brown, Pettifer)
- 3 speacilist small backs (3 of Raines, King, McMohan, Newman, Johnson)
13 players

The rest should be mids (Tuck, Polo, Cogs, Foley) and players who can shift between roles up foward, in the middle and down back (Jackson, Deledio, Tambling, Conners, Edwards, McMohan, Morton, Johnson, Newman, etc.)

 

[Tambo]

Meyer, JON and Captain sugar madtiger... best line up by a mile

 

[polakthetiger]

. You can't go past a starting midfield of
Coughlan Foley Polo in the centre square at the bounce after a goal

I think a few other teams' supporters just might disagree with you there MT. If you are referring solely to our list, well you may be in the ballpark.

Although I am rather partial to Lids being there. Foley should cop the No1 tag next year.

 

[Checkers]

I think Andy Collins will suprise a few next year. I can see him playing about 10 games and have a Dean Polo type year he had in 2006.

The boy is good.

 

[_RT_]

Assuming we get Richards in the PSD then I would have the following set ups:

Starting the match(attack focused): Ruck-Simmonds, RR-Deledio, Rover-Foley, Centre-Coughlan. Wingers- M.Morton & Tambling.

2 known ball winners in Foley and Cogs to clear the thing and Lids to break away from the pack. 2 attacking wingmen to work with Lids at generating attack. Foley is also capable of doing the same role. Any tagging roles would take place after the ball was cleared from the centre.

First rotation(semi defensive): Ruck-Richards, RR-Tuck, Rover-Brown, Centre-Johnson, Wingers-Newman & M.Morton.

Slightly defensive set up as Richards would be used to push back and get in the hole in the opposition F50. Does not have to mark it just needs to take up space. Tuck is a very good clearance player but unlike Foley or Cogs tends to bang the ball on his boot and get it heading our way. Still 40-50m towards our goal is better than it heading the other way. Johnson & Newman are capable of playing run with roles and will allow first choice taggers in Polo & Jackson a break. Brown is the silk and I believe still capable of a 5 minute burst every quarter to give Lids a spell up forward to create headaches for the opposition.

Third rotation(defensive): Simmonds-Ruck, RR-Tuck, Rover Coughlan, Centre-Johnson, Wingers-Polo & Jackson.

Purely to stop an opposition run on. 3 pure taggers in Polo, Johnson & Jackson all able to lock down on an opponent and shut them out of the game toa degree. Simmonds is smart enough to be able to nullify an dominating opposition ruckman from hitting the ball where they want and forcing a 50-50 contest for our ground level players to at least have a chance. Tuck and Coughlan provide the ability to still clear the footy and get it heading towards our goals.

Of course there are other options available depending on the state of play. IMO, to be a side that can truly compete with the best midfields in the AFL we need to have at least 10-12 players capable of rotating through the middle excluding ruckmen.

 

[Madtiger2006]

I think a few other teams' supporters just might disagree with you there MT. If you are referring solely to our list, well you may be in the ballpark.

Although I am rather partial to Lids being there. Foley should cop the No1 tag next year.

of course I'm referring to our list
Lids isn't ready to be among out 6 best midfielders yet. He is much more valuable at full forwad or half back. I'd rather him dominate in those positions than be tagged in the middle for 12 possessions. He'll become a strong midfielder in time but being a strong medfielder doesn't make you any better than a dangerous full forward or running defender. He's not quite a ball winning clearance specialist yet. Some players are better at getting in and under such as Foley, Polo, Cogs and Tuck. I'd rather win the midfield with those players and get 50 goals from Lids at full forward. Or we could put Lids in the middle and get less clearances and less goals

 

[polakthetiger]

Some players are better at getting in and under such as Foley, Polo, Cogs and Tuck.

You need someone outside to take the ball once it has been won MT. My point was the opposition will tag Foley, and if they want to waste 2 onballers in defensive tags, fine! Cogs can carve them up and the wingers can sweep in.

But Lids has another preseason coming up...he will be stronger and more likely to break some of the holding he copped this year. He will also be more confident and just needs to get himself 'noticed' by the umps (like Judd) and then he will pick up frees for all the scrapping the taggers do to him. The younger mids get a rough time by the umps IMO, like an apprentice...do your time sort of.

Lids, by R1, will be ready. The year 2008 will be his year as a mid!

 

[telsor]

Who needs a forward line?

Seriously...

I'd start with nobody in the F50, 2 or 3 guys hovering around half forward, with instructions only to enter when on the lead.

Maybe start Richo 30 out from goal to receive the quick kick from the center, with instructions to run into the midfield if it doesn't come.

Match up the other teams backs, and everyone else is, effectively, in the midfield.

Our drafting has been going this way for a while, so let's go with it...EVERYONE runs, HARD and FAST, and watch the other team fall behind.

( OK, might require another year or two for all the kids to be fit enough, but something like this will happen ).

 

[roycericho]

Not a bad comment on "who needs a forward line" ........the way footy is played nowadays. I'm a little older than most of you on these threads, and will tell you all that lids is the best prospect I've seen as a 'standard; full forward since Michael Roach. Actually got more natural ability, and as good a leap and kick!

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

As far as smalls go we have alot of depth now. Many people think we have too many skinny flankers. I am of the opinion that we have too many DUD skinny flankers and not enough quality ones. I mean when it comes to players that are tough and inside we have alot of depth: foley, coughlan, tuck, johnson, king, polo, raines, deledio, connors, edwards, jackson and newman can all play as inside mids. Even bowden could given that he has been hardened by his time in defence.

As far as skinny outside mids and flankers, we've got oakley-nicholls, tambling, tivendale, casserley, and now morton and mcmahon. I really think this area is actually lacking.

 

[RichosGuns]

Assuming we get Richards in the PSD then I would have the following set ups:

Starting the match(attack focused): Ruck-Simmonds, RR-Deledio, Rover-Foley, Centre-Coughlan. Wingers- M.Morton & Tambling.

2 known ball winners in Foley and Cogs to clear the thing and Lids to break away from the pack. 2 attacking wingmen to work with Lids at generating attack. Foley is also capable of doing the same role. Any tagging roles would take place after the ball was cleared from the centre.

First rotation(semi defensive): Ruck-Richards, RR-Tuck, Rover-Brown, Centre-Johnson, Wingers-Newman & M.Morton.

Slightly defensive set up as Richards would be used to push back and get in the hole in the opposition F50. Does not have to mark it just needs to take up space. Tuck is a very good clearance player but unlike Foley or Cogs tends to bang the ball on his boot and get it heading our way. Still 40-50m towards our goal is better than it heading the other way. Johnson & Newman are capable of playing run with roles and will allow first choice taggers in Polo & Jackson a break. Brown is the silk and I believe still capable of a 5 minute burst every quarter to give Lids a spell up forward to create headaches for the opposition.

Third rotation(defensive): Simmonds-Ruck, RR-Tuck, Rover Coughlan, Centre-Johnson, Wingers-Polo & Jackson.

Purely to stop an opposition run on. 3 pure taggers in Polo, Johnson & Jackson all able to lock down on an opponent and shut them out of the game toa degree. Simmonds is smart enough to be able to nullify an dominating opposition ruckman from hitting the ball where they want and forcing a 50-50 contest for our ground level players to at least have a chance. Tuck and Coughlan provide the ability to still clear the footy and get it heading towards our goals.

Of course there are other options available depending on the state of play. IMO, to be a side that can truly compete with the best midfields in the AFL we need to have at least 10-12 players capable of rotating through the middle excluding ruckmen.

Just a few points:
- Assuming we take Guy Richards in the PSD...he should still not play in our best 22 IMO. We still need to develop Pattison as a second ruck, and play Simmo as our first. They could probably fetch 25 hitouts between them in the match and with Foley, Coughlan and Tuck (very underated clearance player) we should be able to win most centre clearance against the non-powerhouse midfields.

- We should not go into a game and concede playing 3 tagers. 2 at most IMO. We had to tag alot of players this year because we were permanatly on the backfoot. Only against a full fit Geelong is where we should employ more then 2 tagers. You can't go into the match thinking its already lost.

- I agree with your Brown-Lids scenario. If, on average, we player Brown 70% up foward, 15-20% in the midfield, 15-10% on the bench and then player lids 60% in the midfield, 30% up foward and 10% on the bench we could end up with the two players averageing 40 possesions and 4-5 goals between them a match it would be an unstopable combo, esspeacially when you add in players like Richo who will kick 2-3 goals a match, Pettifer who was averaging over 2 goals a game when Brown came back and Tambling who is pretty much good for a goal every game

 

[sante]

Cogs will start on the bench surely. Maybe later in the year...

My starting midfielders would be: Tuck, Foley and Johnson

Others:

Polo
Cogs
Jackson
Tivva
Newman
Tambling
Brown
Deledio

IMO, Lids and Browny should alternate from the F50 to midfield

 

[08yearofthetiger]

Im a big fan og Cogs but we cant expect to much from him coming back from 2 knee recos

 

[blxx]

Cogs wont be rushed back into the midfield well i hope he isnt. I hope cogs spends the first half of the season with a good lot of time on the pine or resting down back.

We're a ways away from being a threat and thats when you want a fit and firing Cogs so why rush his comeback next year. We need to be building over the next couple of years and thats the thinking we should employ. Work on players strengths and weaknesses, Build the teams form/skills/structure/gameplan thats what is more important FOR NOW.

 

[_RT_]

Just a few points:
- Assuming we take Guy Richards in the PSD...he should still not play in our best 22 IMO. We still need to develop Pattison as a second ruck, and play Simmo as our first. They could probably fetch 25 hitouts between them in the match and with Foley, Coughlan and Tuck (very underated clearance player) we should be able to win most centre clearance against the non-powerhouse midfields.

Richards would play second ruck because I would like to see Pattison playing at CHF in 2008. I don't think that Graham is quite ready to play as a full time second choice ruckman.

- We should not go into a game and concede playing 3 tagers. 2 at most IMO. We had to tag alot of players this year because we were permanatly on the backfoot. Only against a full fit Geelong is where we should employ more then 2 tagers. You can't go into the match thinking its already lost.

We should go into a game with 3-4 players that are capable of shutting down opposition stars. Going in with 1-2 leaves us with no second option if the first choice tagger gets torn a new one. I would not be using the 3-4 taggers at the same time I would have 2 of them still playing in attacking type roles and then if my 2 first choice taggers were getting beaten I would have options open to me. I don't think we have the ability to go head to head with most midfields.

- I agree with your Brown-Lids scenario. If, on average, we player Brown 70% up foward, 15-20% in the midfield, 15-10% on the bench and then player lids 60% in the midfield, 30% up foward and 10% on the bench we could end up with the two players averageing 40 possesions and 4-5 goals between them a match it would be an unstopable combo, esspeacially when you add in players like Richo who will kick 2-3 goals a match, Pettifer who was averaging over 2 goals a game when Brown came back and Tambling who is pretty much good for a goal every game

I think it would be a very dangerous set up and would always keep a highly skilled player on the ball at all times. In other threads I have posted about having a 3 way rotation going with Lids, Brown & M.Morton. Always having one of them on the ball and two of them floating around the forward 50.

 

[sante]

Richards would play second ruck because I would like to see Pattison playing at CHF in 2008. I don't think that Graham is quite ready to play as a full time second choice ruckman.

I agree, I think Patto at CHF could work if we can have a fit Simmo all year and then Richards would be okay for the 2nd ruck option...

I think it would be a very dangerous set up and would always keep a highly skilled player on the ball at all times. In other threads I have posted about having a 3 way rotation going with Lids, Brown & M.Morton. Always having one of them on the ball and two of them floating around the forward 50.

With Deledio and Brown up forward at the same time, Petts should get it easy...but I still believe in swapping Deledio and Brown through midfield and the F50

 

[_RT_]

I agree, I think Patto at CHF could work if we can have a fit Simmo all year and then Richards would be okay for the 2nd ruck option...

That is the only proviso I have for getting Richards as a second ruckman. Just the way the coaching staff have spoken about Patto's future leads me to think that is what they want from him. Big CHF who can cover the ground well has decent skills and is not afraid to mix it up physically.

With Deledio and Brown up forward at the same time, Petts should get it easy...but I still believe in swapping Deledio and Brown through midfield and the F50

Just think with Wallace's plans for us to be a hard, fast running team that leaving Lids in the guts for most of the time will see him tiring in the last quarter when we really want him to be flying. Adding an extra player to the rotation like M.Morton, who is suppposedly highly skilled as well, will always see us with a player capable of delivering lace out passes to the forwards, on top of that it would allow the 3 of them to have more in the tank at the end of games when we really need them.

 

[shortybronx]

hmm good point although id have lids running around the foward 50 more often than not because i saw times this year where he tore opositions apart and booted 5. I also recon have a 3 player rotating system but at times have 2 of them on the ball so they can link up and move it foward quickly

 

[sante]

We need Newman delivering it into the F50 in 2008...his skills are better than most, Newman has to be played on a wing. This should be possible with McMahon hopefully taking Newman's HBF position.

I don't know much about Morton but he will add some depth to our midfield.

 

[Richmond 2014]

Just a few points:
- Assuming we take Guy Richards in the PSD...he should still not play in our best 22 IMO. We still need to develop Pattison as a second ruck, and play Simmo as our first. They could probably fetch 25 hitouts between them in the match and with Foley, Coughlan and Tuck (very underated clearance player) we should be able to win most centre clearance against the non-powerhouse midfields.

- We should not go into a game and concede playing 3 tagers. 2 at most IMO. We had to tag alot of players this year because we were permanatly on the backfoot. Only against a full fit Geelong is where we should employ more then 2 tagers. You can't go into the match thinking its already lost.

- I agree with your Brown-Lids scenario. If, on average, we player Brown 70% up foward, 15-20% in the midfield, 15-10% on the bench and then player lids 60% in the midfield, 30% up foward and 10% on the bench we could end up with the two players averageing 40 possesions and 4-5 goals between them a match it would be an unstopable combo, esspeacially when you add in players like Richo who will kick 2-3 goals a match, Pettifer who was averaging over 2 goals a game when Brown came back and Tambling who is pretty much good for a goal every game

Round 19 Richmond v Collingwood...
We had Pattison in the ruck agaist Richards/Bryan, both average ruckman.
Pattison won and got the ball down to 'Axle' who fired it into the 50 and polak marked, this happened again.
Imagine if we had a fully fit Simmonds, with no ankle/lung injuries or conditions.
last year our midfield was Foley, Tuck, Johnson, Pattison... foley a class midfielder, Tuck a decent midfielder but messy with his skills, Johnson who is dedicated but can't add anything to the team, and Pattision, he wasnt drafted as a ruckman and he was battling it out all year against, Jolly, Cox, Mcintosh and Lade, we have picked up 2 outside midfielder and we have also regained Couglahn
Midfield for 08

Ruck: Simmonds
Rover: Foley
RR: Couglahn
C: Deledio

Developers: Edwards, Connors, Raines(Raines because Terry will make him into a midfielder because of the Mchmahon pick up nad because it would be great for him to run along the wing instead of taking them on in the backline which he tries to do, cant pull it of like mcloed)
Outside midfielders: Newman, Morton, Pick 2, Mcmahon, Tambling(showed form late into the season, watch out for him)
Taggers: Polo, Jackson, Johnson (1 of them will have to sit out)
Duds: Tivendale, Hyde, JOD, Meyer, Casserly, White
No need for them ^
If we get Simmonds back to his best and now pattison will have some experience we wont need an Unco, Skilless ruckman like the last two we have picked up, Knobel and Marsh
So hopefully we snare just maybe snare Rutten or we pick up speedster Pfieffer

 

[LuKe2428]

i rekon put lids in the goal square 1 out he would be the quickest foward in the comp a great pair of hands he will be unstopable