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SJ said:
Off the top of my head: last time the team failed to beat a finalist?
Click to expand...
no_finalist_win_zps0ebdf9fe.png


Absolutely correct.

1958 and 1959 are the only seasons after WWII
that Geelong has failed to win at least one match against
a finalist.

There have been 4 seasons where Collingwood failed to
beat a finalist: 1942, 1982, 1987 and 1999.

St Kilda failed to defeat a finalist in 28 of the 88 seasons that
they competed in 1897-1986.

From 1937 to 2013, 1971 is the only season where Essendon
failed to beat a finalist.

From 1925 to 1953, without being one, Hawthorn played 192 matches
against eventual finalists and won 12 of them.

The only two matches that Fremantle won in 2001 were against finalists,
Adelaide and Hawthorn.
 
Mystery table
Richmond 10
North Melbourne 6
Footscray 4
Essendon 3
Geelong 3
Hawthorn 3
Collingwood 2
South Melbourne 2
St. Kilda 1
Fitzroy N/A
Carlton N/A
Melbourne N/A

as at the end of 1981, the last year of a fully Victorian VFL.
 

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Derby103 said:
Mystery table
Richmond 10
North Melbourne 6
Footscray 4
Essendon 3
Geelong 3
Hawthorn 3
Collingwood 2
South Melbourne 2
St. Kilda 1
Fitzroy N/A
Carlton N/A
Melbourne N/A

as at the end of 1981, the last year of a fully Victorian VFL.
Click to expand...
Clue please! The only things that I can think of that Richmond had 10 of by the end of 1981 are 10 premierships and 10 times finishing 6th - not anything that fits with the other figures.
 
Times Topped on the Final Season Ladder

The longest one team has gone before being topped by one other team on the final season ladder is 32 seasons.

One team only finished ahead of another three times in a span of 59 seasons.

Another team was ahead of one opponent only 5 times in 62 seasons

2013 was the first time that Fremantle had finished higher placed than one other team.

Details and Full Tables: Click here.​
 
Most and Least Common Pairings in the Home and Away Fixture 1997-2013
(Gold Coast and GWS Giants excluded.)

Since 1997, one Victorian team has played as many home and away matches against two Melbourne based opponents as Adelaide and Port Adelaide and Fremantle and West Coast have played "derbies" against each other.


From 1997 to 2013, four teams were each the most frequent or equal most home and away match-ups for three other teams. Two teams were no other teams most frequent match-up.



From 1997 to 2013, the least common home and away pairing was Carlton vs. West Coast.



From 1997 to 2013, 4 Victorian teams had their most or equal most home and away match-ups against non-Victorian teams.



From 1997 to 2013, five teams have the same team as their least or equal least home and away match-up. None have one team as the team that they had the least home and away matches against.

Details and table: Click here.
 
haw60_zps40ecc312.png

Note that Hawthorn and Geelong played the same number of matches in both periods:

1925-1954, Hawthorn played no finals but competed in all 30 seasons. Geelong did not compete in the 15 round seasons of 1942 and 1943 but played in 30 finals 1925-1954.

1984-2013, both Hawthorn and Geelong played 46 finals.
 
GROTTO said:
I have noticed if I am not mistaken that the Cats have not lost a H&A game in Geelong since 2006???

Admittedly is this also because they have played weaker teams in Geelong??
Click to expand...
Well they have.
 
GROTTO said:
I have noticed if I am not mistaken that the Cats have not lost a H&A game in Geelong since 2006???

Admittedly is this also because they have played weaker teams in Geelong??
Click to expand...
They have lost 4 games at Kardinia Park since 2006 to 4 of the so-called "weaker" teams they play in Geelong, Premiers Sydney, Grand Finalists, Port Adelaide and Fremantle and top 4 finisher, Nth Melbourne.

Lower drawing teams mainly from outside of Victoria are fixtured to play some of the 7 or 8 matches in Geelong each year. Sometimes those teams are "weak", sometimes not.

That Geelong only plays "weaker" teams in Geelong is an assumption that hasn't got much past being just that, an assumption with no evidence.

Over time, the strength of opponents at any venue evens out as the below figures show, there is really no significant difference in the average final ranking of opponents in the example below. (figures rounded to the nearlest whole number.)

Average finishing position of Geelong's opponents at Kardinia Park 2000-13, 9th - 2007-13, 10th. (with 1 final 10th)
Average finishing position of West Coast's opponents at Subiaco Oval 2000-13 9th (with 7 finals 8th) - 2007-13, 9th (with 3 finals 9th).
Average finishing position of Brisbane's opponents at the Gabba 2000-13 9th (with 7 finals 9th) - 2007-13, 9th (with 1 final 9th).
Average finishing position of Essendon;s opponents at Docklands 2000-13 8th (with 1 final 8th), - 2007-13, 8th.
Average finishing position of Adelaide's opponents at Football Park 2000-13 9th (with 9 finals 9th), 9th - 2007-13, 9th (with 4 finals 9th).
Average finishing position of Collingwood's opponents at the MCG 2000-13 9th (with finals 8th) - 2007 9th (8th with finals).

Geelong's average opponent final position 2007-13 is up by 1 because non-Victorian collectively had their least successful seasons since 2000 in 2008 and 2011.

Geelong's match win percentage from all matches 2000-13 is 65.62% (league highest) and 78.50% at Kardinia Park.
 
RogersResults said:
They have lost 4 games at Kardinia Park since 2006 to 4 of the so-called "weaker" teams they play in Geelong, Premiers Sydney, Grand Finalists, Port Adelaide and Fremantle and top 4 finisher, Nth Melbourne.

Lower drawing teams mainly from outside of Victoria are fixtured to play some of the 7 or 8 matches in Geelong each year. Sometimes those teams are "weak", sometimes not.

That Geelong only plays "weaker" teams in Geelong is an assumption that hasn't got much past being just that, an assumption with no evidence.

Geelong's average opponent final position 2007-13 is up by 1 because non-Victorian collectively had their least successful seasons since 2000 in 2008 and 2011.

Geelong's match win percentage from all matches 2000-13 is 65.62% (league highest) and 78.50% at Kardinia Park.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to provide a detailed analysis much appreciated.
 

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How many games did it take for a team to win a derby?

Fremantle - 10 games (6th game as the Home side, 5th game as the Away side)
Port Adelaide - 1 game (2nd game as the Home side, 1st game as the Away side)
Gold Coast - 1 game (1st game as the Home side, yet to win at Home stadium, yet to win at Away stadium as the Away side)
GWS - 5 games (3rd game at Home, yet to win Away)
 
red+black said:
How many games did it take for a team to win a derby?
Click to expand...

I find it interesting when terms like "derby" get grafted on from other sports to our game, there is always a considerable degree of nonsense going on.

Carlton and Collingwood were playing "derbies" for 98 consecutive seasons in the same competition (along with for lesser durations, all the Melbourne based clubs) before some marketing spiv decided that now there were two teams located in the the greater Perth metropolitan area, that the competition would now have "derbies".

It may be that it is the same marketing spivs in the AFL that encourage the use of the term to justify Fremantle and West Coast (along with the other two team localities) playing each other twice every season because they are "derbies", while perhaps hoping that the generally uniformed will not notice for example than in the same time that the W.A. teams have played 38 "derbies", Carlton and Essendon have also met in 38 'home any away' matches in Melbourne.

The Australia situation of premier sporting leagues arising in one big city is unique. It is partly a result of the distances between major population areas but also a result of the teams that comprise the AFL (and NRL) having their origins as local community and membership based organisations, whereas elsewhere as sport became commercialised the elite teams were soon the property of business interests.

Note: It took Carlton 15 matches to win their first "derby" against Essendon - round 12, 1902.
 
red+black said:
I have no idea why you wrote what you did.
Click to expand...
Its all about the power of what things are called and how language is used to manipulate how we think. "Derby" in the AFL context to denote a special "rivalry" on geographical proximity is a nonsense term.

Why is GWS vs. Sydney referred to as a "derby" but not matches between Melbourne based clubs? (Does Geelong's distance from next club headquarters disqualify them from "derbies"?) Either it should be used universally for all rivalries (real or imagined by the marketeers) or be left back in England where it may mean something.

Would be interesting to see which match was first called a "derby".
 

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We all knew something was up after the results on Saturday.

The first 4 winners of the season are the last 4 'expansion' clubs, GWS, Gold Coast, Port and Fremantle.

And the only 4 teams to win their last 2 games are Hawthorn, Adelaide, St Kilda and Gold Coast.
 
A reader has presented a fairly compelling case (newspaper reports and the Football Record) that in Round 1, 1914 Collingwood played Reg Gibb not Percy Gibb as most records appear to have. I've decided to change my records, but wondering if any other sleuths can dig up any other evidence either way.
 
*Paul* said:
A reader has presented a fairly compelling case (newspaper reports and the Football Record) that in Round 1, 1914 Collingwood played Reg Gibb not Percy Gibb as most records appear to have. I've decided to change my records, but wondering if any other sleuths can dig up any other evidence either way.
Click to expand...
Excellent work by whoever uncovered this. As the Rd. 2 Football Record mentions R. Gibb as having kicked a goal in Rd. 1, and that he was one of 5 omissions for Rd. 2 with P. Gibb coming into the side, it certainly looks correct. I'm wondering if the AFL statisticians have been notified of this revelation?

It does seem strange that R. Gibb was left out of the side for the next game (perhaps he was injured?) as The Age named him first among the best players (http://news.google.com.au/newspapers?nid=MDQ-9Oe3GGUC&dat=19140427&printsec=frontpage&hl=en) :- "while among Collingwood, Gibb, McHale, Lee and Jackson bore the brunt of the game, with Seddon, Dufty, Luxton and Minogue giving fine assistance". Seddon and Dufty were also omitted. Perhaps the observer was just a poor judge!

The Football Record (Rd. 2), as well as mentioning that Huntington (Les) of Collingwood had been omitted and not naming him in the side, names Huntington (Jack) in the Melbourne team for the clash between the two sides. He had played in round 1 so that seems rather interesting to me. AFL Tables, AFL Historical Statistics website and Footy Works all have Huntington of Collingwood (not of Melbourne) playing in that game. Presumably the Record has it wrong? Edit:- As the Rd. 3 Record mentions Huntington as an out for Collingwood that seems likely. It also has R. Gibb as an In and P. Gibb an Out yet that seemingly didn't happen. Confusing stuff!!
 
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I think we'll let Percy play Round 3 for now, as he plays a further 3 games - surely all not the Register in disguise.

A factor in all this is how the records on the old AFL site were compiled (which presumably are official). In the Gibb case in does seem quite clear that it was Reg, yet Percy shows up. So is this just an oversight, or the result of a more in depth investigation that we don't know about?
 
*Paul* said:
I think we'll let Percy play Round 3 for now, as he plays a further 3 games - surely all not the Register in disguise.

A factor in all this is how the records on the old AFL site were compiled (which presumably are official). In the Gibb case in does seem quite clear that it was Reg, yet Percy shows up. So is this just an oversight, or the result of a more in depth investigation that we don't know about?
Click to expand...

I think the odds are in favour of an oversight - given the amount of game data we are talking about over the nearly 120 years, it's highly unlikely that the official records are 100% accurate. There will be mistakes, and from time to time they are discovered, I suspect more so now with Trove and the Footy Record online. In this case, we should assume an oversight, unless someone like Col Hutchinson knows something different.
 
Observed in Round 1 2014.

Dogs lose their record set at the end of 1940.


There have been over one thousand better starts to a season than those by two recent Premiers in 2014.


Scores from 1900 make re-appearances.


Cats pip Hawks in a best winning sequence table.


Lowest average opening attendance since the League changed its letterhead.


Bombers payback Kangaroo’s insolence of 2013, 18-fold.


Hawks 1111 matches away from the lowest depths.


Melbourne misses equalling a feat of 111 years ago by 1 point.


Details and More: Click here.
 

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