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Stats observations

Discussion in 'Football Statistics' started by red+black, Apr 27, 2009.

Put it out there
  1. red+black

    red+black Hall of Famer

    Essendon
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    2017 attendance stats for Richmond
    - 3rd best H&A attendance
    - 4th best finals attendance
    - best season attendance
    - 11th best season attendance by any club (COLx5, ESS, COL, ESS, COLx2)


    2017 1,024,751 289,307 1,314,058
    2001 975,267 198,608 1,173,875
    2015 1,054,354 90,186 1,144,540
    2013 1,040,290 94,690 1,134,980
    1998 1,023,821 0 1,023,821
     
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  2. RedmanWasHere

    RedmanWasHere The Angel from my nightmare.

    Essendon
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    Yesterday's GF sprint was an omen.

    Connor Menadue won the sprint.

    It was Richmond's first flag for 37 years and Connor wears No. 37.
     
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  3. emuboy

    emuboy Club Legend

    Collingwood
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    There is plenty written about the odd coincidences in Grand Finals in the early 1900s & early 2000s - Melbourne premiers 1900 runners up 2000, Essendon premiers 1901 runner up 2001, Collingwood premiers 1902 & 1903 runner up 2002 & 2003 & Fitzroy Lions premier 1904 Brisbane Lions runner up 2004 - but there are some odd patterns between the 1910s & 2010s as well:

    2010 - Collingwood premiers in 1910 & 2010.
    2011 - Collingwood runner up in 2011, as they were in 1911
    2012 - South Melbourne Swans runner up in 1912, Sydney Swans premiers in 2012
    2013 - In 1913 St Kilda has waited a long time to make its first Grand Final, but beaten by the more experienced Fitzroy. In 2013 the Fremantle Dockers make the GF for the first time since their inception in 1995, but are well beaten by Hawthorn.
    2014 - South Melbourne/Sydney Swans are runner up in both 1914 & 2014 to Carlton & Hawthorn respectively.
    2015 - The 1915 & 2015 premiers are the same as they were in 1914 & 2014, Carlton & Hawthorn winning successive GF's.
    2016 - Fitzroy famously win the 1916 premiership from last position in a 4 team competition. The Western Bulldogs win the 2016 GF from 7th place on the ladder.
    2017 - Richmond finish last in 1917, premiers in 2017.
     
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  4. worbod

    worbod Premiership Player

    Western Bulldogs
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    The Richmond premiership team of 2017 and the Western Bulldogs premiership team of 2016 had no players with any previous premiership experience. The last time this occurred in consecutive seasons was with St. Kilda in 1966 and Richmond in 1967.
     
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  5. Ron The Bear

    Ron The Bear Brownlow Medallist

    Richmond
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    Most games as captain before first premiership

    GmsCaptainClubYear
    118Cotchin, TrentRi2017
    109*Davis, BarryNM1975
    102Hickey, RegGe1937
    97Voss, MichaelBr2001
    89Goodes, AdamSy2012
    88Carey, WayneNM1996
    86Clarke, Jack E.Es1962
    80La Fontaine, AllanMe1939
    76Shaw, TonyCo1990
    73Jesaulenko, AlexCa1979
    72Baldock, DarrelSt1966
    70Reynolds, DickEs1942
    69Matthews, LeighHa1983
    61Sutton, CharlieWB1954
    60Nicholls, JohnCa1968
    60Parkin, DavidHa1971
    58*Minogue, DanRi1920
    56Hodge, LukeHa2013
    54Dyer senior, JackRi1943
    52Ling, CameronGe2011

    * captain at second club
     
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  6. red+black

    red+black Hall of Famer

    Essendon
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    That greatly surprises me. So if a player hasn't won a flag in his first 4-5 years as captain, you better replace him if you want any chance of winning a premiership!
     
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  7. X_box_X

    X_box_X Premium Platinum

    Western Bulldogs
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    Not true. This doesn't take in to consideration a player who has already won a premiership being awarded the captaincy of his club.

    Luke Hodge for example played 70 games before he won a premiership as Hawthorn captain, but he doesn't meet the criteria because he had already won a premiership prior to becoming captain.
     
  8. North park

    North park Debutant

    Collingwood
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    Richmond has now won 4 premierships after missing the finals in the previous year - 1967, 1969, 1980 and 2017.

    On the previous 3 occasions, Richmond then missed the finals the year after their premiership win:

    1968 - 5th
    1970 - 6th
    1981 - 7th

    Be interesting to see what happens in 2018.
     
  9. Berlin

    Berlin Senior List

    Richmond
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    It felt right.
     
  10. Procrastinator35

    Procrastinator35 Brownlow Medallist

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    Now there's a stat we can all get behind.:)
     
  11. Ron The Bear

    Ron The Bear Brownlow Medallist

    Richmond
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    Most games before first premiership

    GmsPlayerClubYear
    305Crawford, ShaneHa2008
    294Williams, PaulSy2005
    282Boyd, MatthewWB2016
    268Ashcroft, MarcusBr2001
    256Wells, Greg T.Ca1981
    249Lynch, AlastairBr2001
    246Shaw, TonyCo1990
    244Rantall, JohnNM1975
    242Alves, StanNM1977
    233Chick, DanielWC2006
    231Cousins, BenWC2006
    230Morris, DaleWB2016
    226Richards, LouCo1953
    225Blakey, JohnNM1996
    Riewoldt, JackRi2017
    223Brown, LeighCo2010
    222Croad, TrentHa2008
    O'Loughlin, MichaelSy2005
    221Madden, SimonEs1984
    219Williams, GregCa1995
    218Lake, BrianHa2013
    217Fairley, IanNM1996
    215Mattner, MartinSy2012
    213Milburn, DarrenGe2007
    208Johnson, Ben L.Co2010
    207Daicos, PeterCo1990
    Edwards, ShaneRi2017
    205Greene, RussellHa1983
    Hart, ShaunBr2001
    204Vallence, HarryCa1938
    202Wakelin, DarrylPA2004
    201White, DarrylBr2001
    200Foulds, GarryEs1984
    Longmire, John121999
    Nicholls, JohnCa1968
    198Cotchin, TrentRi2017
    197Hale, DavidHa2013
    195Spalding, EarlCa1995
    194McVeigh, JarradSy2012
    Schofield, JarradPA2004
    193King, StevenGe2007
    192Grigg, ShaunRi2017
     

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  12. Ron The Bear

    Ron The Bear Brownlow Medallist

    Richmond
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    1973/74
     
  13. North park

    North park Debutant

    Collingwood
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    I should have clarified my post by stating Richmond has now won 4 of its 11 premierships the year after missing the finals (so not to confuse it with just the last 4).

    In fact, Richmond's other 7 premierships were all won the year after playing in a Grand Final - 5 times losing the previous year (1920, 1932, 1934, 1943 and 1973 premierships) and twice as the winner (1921 and 1974 completing back-to-back premierships).

    Looks as if there is no middle ground (eg. early finals) for the Tigers in preparing for their premierships - its either a Grand Final as a warm up or flying in from the clouds.
     
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  14. Wallaby

    Wallaby Norm Smith Medallist

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    Adelaide are favorites next year.

    Since 1960 - so the last 57 years - on 20 occasions, the premier has played in the next GF. They've won 9 and lost 11.
    The runners-up have played in the next Grand final on 21 occasions - and they've won 15 times and only lost 6.
    (I'm ignoring draws).

    Maybe there is something in this 'motivation', 'hurt', 'revenge' etc
     
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  15. worbod

    worbod Premiership Player

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    Western Bulldogs broke a 62 year premiership drought in 2016, followed by Richmond breaking a 37 year premiership drought in 2017, giving a combined total of 99 years in two successive seasons. Making a qualification of at least 20 years in between premierships, this is a new record for two successive seasons.

    totalclubs/seasons
    99W.Bull (62) 2016 + Rich (37) 2017
    93St.K (69) 1966 + Rich (24) 1967
    54Geel (28) 1925 + Melb (26) 1926
    45Rich (24) 1967 + Carl (21) 1968



    With no specific qualification, these are the leading totals:

    totalclubs/seasons
    99W.Bull (62) 2016 + Rich (37) 2017
    93St.K (69) 1966 + Rich (24) 1967
    84Syd (72) 2005 + WCE (12) 2006
    79Port (7) 2004 + Syd (72) 2005
    61Geel (44) 2007 + Haw (17) 2008
    56WCE (12) 2006 + Geel (44) 2007
    55Nth (50) 1975 + Haw (5) 1976
    54Geel (28) 1925 + Melb (26) 1926
    48Haw (36) 1961 + Ess (12) 1962
    46Coll (17) 1953 + Foot (29) 1954
    45Rich (24) 1967 + Carl (21) 1968
     
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  16. worbod

    worbod Premiership Player

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    Since the reformatting of the final 8 in 2000, there are nine different finals a team can play. I became interested in seeing how many teams had played in all nine since 2000. I have included the season in which a team "completed the set" on the end of the row.

    team1st elim2nd elim1st qual2nd qual1st semi2nd semi1st prelim2nd prelimgrand finalyear
    Adelyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes2017
    Brisyesyesyesyesyesyes
    Carlyesyesyesyesyesyes
    Collyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes2008
    Essyesyesyesyesyesyes
    Freyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes2014
    Geelyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes2009
    GWSyesyesyesyes
    Hawyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes2012
    Melbyesyesyesyesyesyes
    Northyesyesyesyesyesyesyes
    Portyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes2013
    Richyesyesyesyesyesyes
    St. Kyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes
    Sydyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes2012
    WCEyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes
    W.Bullyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes2016
     
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  17. RedmanWasHere

    RedmanWasHere The Angel from my nightmare.

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    Prior to last night, the last time Brisbane held the No. 1 pick, Fremantle held the No. 2 pick.
     
  18. emuboy

    emuboy Club Legend

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    The St. Kilda team thrashed by Collingwood by 178-points in Round 4 1979 contained two players who shared the names of actors from 'The Aunty Jack Show' - Graeme Bond and Gary McDonald.
     
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  19. emuboy

    emuboy Club Legend

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    Some players finish their careers on the ultimate high, playing in premiership winning team in their last ever game. The following 24 men are not among them. All of them played their last senior game in teams that were thrashed by 150-points or more:

    190 points - Fitzroy 36.22-238 d. Melbourne 6.12-48, Round 17 1979
    Barry Denny

    171 points - South Melbourne 29.15-189 d. St Kilda 2.6-18, Round 12 1919
    Peter Ryan

    168 points - Richmond 30.19-199 d. North Melbourne 4.7-31, Round 2 1931
    Cyril Kemp

    165 points - Essendon 28.16-184 d. South Melbourne 2.7-19, Round 18 1964
    Charlie Evans, Clem Goonan, Eddy Melai, Don Stanley, Pat Trethowan, Ken Wharton

    165 points - Hawthorn 31.11-197 d. Port Adelaide 5.2-32, Round 21 2011
    Nick Salter

    163 points - Sydney Swans 36.20-236 d. Essendon 11.7-73, Round 17 1987
    Daryl Cunningham

    162 points - Brisbane Bears 33.21-219 d. Sydney Swans 8.9-57, Round 8 1993
    Brad Tunbridge

    161 points - Geelong 23.24-162 d. St Kilda 0.1-1, Round 17 1899
    Bill Blackwood, Wal Heron, George May, Jim Park, Bill Wishart

    160 points - Hawthorn 32.24-216 d. Essendon 8.8-56, Round 20 1992
    Dean Bailey

    157 points - Hawthorn 36.15-231 d. Fitzroy 11.8-74, Round 6 1991
    Peter Bourke, Chris Waterson

    152 points - Richmond 34.18-222 d. St Kilda 11.4-70, Round 16 1980
    Geoff Greethan

    150 points - Fitzroy 34.16-220 d. North Melbourne 10.10-70, Round 13 1983
    Ross Henshaw

    150 points - Geelong 29.14-188 d. Gold Coast 6.2-38, Round 20 2011
    Daniel Harris, Haydn Jolly

    Of the players on this list, Wal Heron's only senior match for the Saints was the infamous 1899 Geelong vs. St Kilda game. I wonder if he had nightmares about Cats for the rest of his life after that? Brad Tunbridge is another interesting case. The Swans' ruckman recruited from WAFL club East Fremantle stood tall in some Sydney teams that were given heavy defeats and was a regular senior player for the struggling team in the early 1990s, but after playing his 50th match in the debacle against the Bears at the GABBA he mysteriously lost his place in the side, and never played senior football again.

    No Demons involved in the 186-point hiding by Geelong at Kardinia Park in Round 19 2011 ended their careers that day, but the loss did cost Demons coach the late Dean Bailey his job. Bailey ironically appears on this list as a player, with his last senior game for Essendon taking place in the 160 point trouncing from Hawthorn in Round 20 1992.
     
  20. Wallaby

    Wallaby Norm Smith Medallist

    Richmond
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    There have been 15 Grand Finals where the same 2 teams played off as had in the previous year.

    Only 6 times did the reigning premiers repeat - 9 times the runner-up got revenge.
     
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  21. emuboy

    emuboy Club Legend

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    There's some good examples of this in the WAFL, SANFL, and VFL/VFA as well.

    In 1966, 1967 and 1968 Perth beat East Perth in three successive WAFL Grand Finals, while across in South Australia Sturt beat Port Adelaide in the corresponding Grand Finals. Unlike East Perth however, Port Adelaide did have the satisfaction of having beaten Sturt in 1965. A decade earlier in the VFA, arch rivals Williamstown and Port Melbourne squared off in three successive Grand Finals in 1954, 1955 & 1956 and the Seagulls defeated the Borough each time. The Great Depression proved very depressing indeed for fans of the Coburg Lions, who saw their team lose to their Northern Suburbs rivals the Northcote Dragons in three successive Grand Finals in 1932, 1933 and 1934.
     
  22. Ron The Bear

    Ron The Bear Brownlow Medallist

    Richmond
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    The youngest finalist (based on average age over the h&a season) has won the past two premierships. This happened previously in 1992-93, 1927-28 and 1898-99-1900.

    Since the advent of the final eight in 1994, the youngest finalist has finished

    1st - four times
    2nd - twice
    4th - three times
    5th - four times
    6th - twice
    7th - once
    8th - eight times
     
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  23. Derby103

    Derby103 Senior List

    North Melbourne
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    In 1924, the league introduced the convention whereby home teams would wear black shorts and away teams would wear white (a couple of clubs were a bit slow in making the conversion. Fitzroy was noted as wearing blue knicks in 1924, while Richmond still sported blue pants as late as 1928).

    The allocation of black and white shorts in finals matches was decided by coin toss. Club secretaries would meet early in the week to toss the coin to decide which dressing rooms would be allocated to each side, and which club would wear the black shorts.

    The winner of the toss did not automatically choose the black knicks for his team. For example, when Collingwood secretary Frank Wraith won the coin toss from his Carlton counterpart Harry Bell before the 1945 preliminary final, Wraith decided that Collingwood would wear white shorts in the match.

    From 1924 to 1984, there were 276 finals matches played. All but two of these games featured one side wearing dark shorts and the other wearing white. The two exceptions were i) when a misunderstanding occurred that resulted in Geelong wearing black knicks in the 1934 second semi final against Richmond rather than white as the league had determined, and ii) Essendon wore black shorts and North Melbourne royal blue in the 1982 elimination final. The Bombers had received permission from the league to wear dark shorts (black or red) in away matches during 1982, and this was extended to its finals appearance that year.

    Of the 274 finals where one team wore white shorts, 136 were won by the team in dark shorts and 132 by the team in white shorts. Six matches were drawn.

    The first-named teams were allocated the dark shorts in 148 matches, while the second-named teams were allocated the dark shorts in 126 matches.

    Geelong wore black shorts in 16 consecutive finals from 1956 to 1969. Similarly, Collingwood wore black shorts in 15 consecutive finals, starting from the 1953 grand final and ending when it wore white shorts against Geelong in the 1964 preliminary final. Essendon had the white shorts in 15 consecutive finals from the 1942 grand final until the 1949 first semi inclusive. Essendon then had another run of 11 consecutive finals in white shorts from 1951 to 1962. Stats like those make me question whether it was actually done randomly after all.

    Carlton was allocated the dark shorts in 11 consecutive finals from the 1972 grand final until the run was broken in the 1979 grand final.

    In the 1924-1984 era, Geelong played 56 finals and wore the dark shorts 44 times (including the mistaken time in 1934). That is about 79% of its finals in the dark shorts. The table below summarises shorts colour distribution from 1924 to 1984:

    Club Dark White % dark
    Geelong 44 12 78.6%
    Melbourne 29 20 59.2%
    Collingwood 58 44 56.9%
    North Melb. 20 17 54.1%
    Hawthorn 16 16 50.0%
    Carlton 33 35 48.5%
    South Melb. 9 11 45.0%
    Richmond 28 35 44.4%
    St. Kilda 9 12 42.9%
    Fitzroy 8 13 38.1%
    Essendon 20 46 30.3%
    Footscray 4 13 23.5%

    Three sides wore the same coloured shorts throughout a 4-match finals campaign. Carlton was the first, wearing white shorts in all 4 finals in 1962 (this included a replayed preliminary final against Geelong). Twenty years later, Carlton was again allocated white shorts for all four finals it played in winning the 1982 flag. And Collingwood was allocated white shorts in the 4 finals it played in 1980 as it progressed from the elimination final to the grand final.

    No club in the 'random shorts' era (1924-1984) ever wore dark shorts in a 4 match finals campaign (under the Final Four system, a club playing 4 finals was a rarity as it required a draw and a replay), however several teams wore dark shorts throughout a 3-match series. Most recent was North Melbourne, which wore royal blue shorts in its 3 finals during 1978, while Carlton wore black shorts in its 3 finals in 1973.

    Since winning the 1930 flag in white shorts, Collingwood has made 7 grand final appearances in white shorts for 6 losses and a draw. Collingwood's last 6 premierships have all been won in black shorts.

    Essendon went into the 2001 grand final having never lost a decider in black shorts. The Bombers had won all 6 of the black-trousered grand finals it had played - 1950, 1962, 1965, 1985, 1993 and 2000. Brisbane beat the black-shorted Dons in 2001 to prompt the unprecedented sight of dejected black-trousered Bombers on grand final day. Essendon's grand final record in white pants is poor. The Same Old played 15 white pants GFs from 1941 to 1990 for just 4 wins and a draw.

    Collingwood wore black shorts in all 18 finals it played against Fitzroy.

    Collingwood and Melbourne played 16 finals from 1937 to 1989, with the Magpies being allocated the black shorts 14 times. The exceptions were the 1946 preliminary and the 1964 grand final.

    Geelong wore dark shorts in every final it played against Essendon from 1897 to 1989 (12 matches). The two clubs have only met in one final since then - the 2004 first semi final. The Cats wore white shorts in that one.

    Essendon played Melbourne in 10 finals from 1926 to 1959 and wore white shorts every time. The run was broken at the next finals meeting between the two in the 1991 first elimination final when Essendon wore black shorts. This was repeated nine years later in the 2000 grand final.

    Geelong played in 16 first semi finals from 1926 to 1994 and wore dark shorts in every one of them. Since then, Geelong has played in first semi finals in 1997 and 2004 and wore white shorts in both.

    Geelong also wore dark shorts in 15 of 16 second semi finals from 1927 to 2005. The odd one out was the 1951 game against Collingwood.

    Sydney has worn red shorts in all 47 finals games since first it first made the finals in 1986. This beats the previous record, which was Collingwood's 43 consecutive finals in black shorts from 1897 to 1925. South Melbourne never wore red shorts in a finals match.

    Geelong was allocated the black shorts in all 16 finals that it played from 1956 to 1969. The Cats wore navy blue shorts in 17 of the 20 finals it played between 1980 and 1994. Changing football fashions have dictated that since 1995, Geelong has played 38 finals and has worn white shorts 33 times.

    From the 1972 grand final to the end of 1975, Richmond played in 10 finals and wore white shorts 9 times (the exception was the 1973 first semi final against St. Kilda). Of the next 10 finals Richmond played (from 1977 to 1995), 9 were in black shorts (white shorts were worn in the 1980 second semi against Geelong).

    In the 21 first semi finals played from 1951 to 1971, the first-named (i.e. third-placed) side was allocated the black shorts 19 times. The two occasions where the first-named team wore white shorts in this era were Essendon against Collingwood in 1960 and Essendon against Geelong in 1964.

    In contrast, over the 13 second semi finals played from 1962 to 1974, the first-named side (i.e. the team that finished on top of the ladder) was allocated white shorts 12 times. The one minor premier to wear the black shorts in the second semi during this period was Collingwood against St. Kilda in 1966.

    In the 11 grand finals played from 1961 to 1971, the first-named teams (i.e. winners of the second semi finals) wore black shorts 9 times. The two exceptions were St. Kilda against Essendon in 1965, and Richmond against Geelong in 1967.

    In 11 second semi finals from 1948 to 1958, the winning side wore white shorts 9 times. The two exceptions were Essendon against North in 1950, and Geelong against Collingwood in 1952.

    Hawthorn had the white shorts in 5 consecutive second semi finals it played from 1976 to 1984. Since then, Hawthorn has played in 10 second semis for 9 brown shorts and 1 white (2001).

    Carlton wore white shorts in all 13 finals it ever played against South Melbourne and St. Kilda.

    Hawthorn never wore white shorts in the 13 finals it played against Melbourne, Fitzroy and Footscray.

    After wearing black shorts in the 1958 first semi final against North Melbourne, Fitzroy's next nine finals were played in white shorts.

    After appearing in black shorts in the 1953 first semi final against Essendon, Footscray never again wore black shorts in a final. Nine consecutive white-trousered finals from 1953 to 1974 were followed by the club's only final in red shorts - the 1976 elimination final loss to Geelong.

    Footscray and North Melbourne never played a grand final in black shorts. Footscray only ever wore black shorts in three finals - the first semis of 1942, 1944 and 1953. All of the other 13 finals it played from 1925 to 1974 were in white shorts. North Melbourne never won any final in black shorts.

    (note - from 1985, it became quite common for both sides to wear coloured shorts. The last league match featuring both teams in white shorts was the Essendon-Fitzroy grand final of 1923. In 1980, Collingwood made an administrative mistake that saw both teams wear white shorts in a night competition match against Essendon. Fitzroy was fined by the league for mistakenly wearing blue shorts in a night competition match against North Melbourne in 1977. North Melbourne deliberately wore blue shorts in a league match at South Melbourne in 1976 and received a fine for its trouble.)
     
  24. footyfan78

    footyfan78 Brownlow Medallist

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    there are no other teams worthy
    1977 season , Hawthorn had Peter Hudson kick 110 goals for season and Leigh Matthews 91.
    Amazing to think they did not play in the grand final when you notice stats like that.
     
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  25. Procrastinator35

    Procrastinator35 Brownlow Medallist

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    That's because Barney didn't have his kicking boots on (3.6) during the Second semi against Collingwood, where we lost by 4 points.....We should never have lost that day.