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Stats observations

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Not sure how this record compares to other sides, but just looking through some of my own clubs records this morning, and was amazed to see that Hawthorn haven’t been defeated in Victoria (their home state of course) by 100 points or more since 1995, where they were defeated by 102 points to Carlton at Optus Oval. Although there’s been some amazing seasons in the past 30 years, there’s also been some really ugly ones, so it’s amazing this record has lasted 30 years. In 2009 against the Dogs at Etihad, they were trailing 13.10 (88) to 0.4 (4) at half time, and the Dogs then kicked the first goal of the second half to make the margin 90 points. However, the final margin only ended up being 88 points that night!
The last 100+ points loss for each (currently playing) team in games played in their home state:-

Victoria:
Carlton 2018
Collingwood 2000
Essendon 2019
Geelong 2006
Hawthorn 1995
Melbourne 2016
North Melbourne 2025
Richmond 2011
St Kilda 2021
Western Bulldogs 2010

NSW:
GWS 2014
Sydney 1998

Qld:
Brisbane 2014
Gold Coast 2011

SA:
Adelaide ---
Port Adelaide 2011

WA:
Fremantle 2017
West Coast 2023

So for the Victorian sides Hawthorn have that record, but Adelaide have never lost in SA by 100+ points (a 97 point loss at Football Park in 1994 is the closest they've gone).

1756713432004.png
 
WA was the first non-Victorian state to get two AFL teams. With the Q Clash next week, it will also now be the last to have a final between their two teams.

Amazingly, in the case of the NSW and Queensland teams, it occurred in the very first series that both made finals.
 
WA was the first non-Victorian state to get two AFL teams. With the Q Clash next week, it will also now be the last to have a final between their two teams.

Amazingly, in the case of the NSW and Queensland teams, it occurred in the very first series that both made finals.

I was just going to mention this. In South Australia the Adelaide Crows and Port Adelaide have played just one final, but it was 20 years ago (2005) and quite unexpected, a rare 1st vs 8th semi final. This came about when top team Adelaide had an upset loss in their Qualifying Final, while Port Adelaide weighted down all year by a premiership hangover, injuries and an aging list scraped into 8th spot but managed to blitz North Melbourne (5th) in the Elimination Final. Less unexpected was the result of the game, an 86-point win to the Crows. In other finals series containing both Adelaide and Port Adelaide (although like with West Coast and Fremantle they are rare) the teams looked realistic prospects of meeting, but things never worked out that way.

Another stat about this years' finals series - it is the first time since 2004 that all participating states have had a team in the finals.
 

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This Friday's semi-final will see 1st place Adelaide take on 8th place Hawthorn.

In the original Final 8 system, which operated from 1994 to 1999, teams placed 1 and 8 met in the Qualifying Final in the first week of finals - the top place team guaranteed a second chance if they lost and the 8th place team eliminated unless they won. In each of these 6 years, the 1st place team won.

From 2000, the current system sees the 1st place team play the 4th place team in a Qualifying Final, while the 8th place team plays the 5th place team in an Elimination Final.

Since then, the 1st place and 8th place team have met 3 times in semi-finals - Port Adelaide v Essendon in 2003, Adelaide v Port Adelaide in 2005 and West Coast v Western Bulldogs in 2006. Each time, the 1st place team won.

This week's match will be the first 1 v 8 finals game since 2006, with the 8th place team yet to knock off the minor premiers in a final.
 
Consecutive finals lost.

Alex Neal-Bullen is currently on 6.

Does any player have more?
 
With Hawthorn eliminated from the finals race last night, the chance of breaking another sort of drought is gone, that of players with unusual letter surnames playing in premiership teams for the first time in many years, this happening in three of the last four grand finals.

Surnames starting with O aren't particularly rare, but regardless nine years had gone by when Clayton Oliver was part of Melbourne's 2021 premiership team, the first premiership player with a O surname since Sydney's Ryan O'Keefe in 2012, and there hasn't been another one since.

In 2023, Collingwood's Isaac Quaynor became the first Q surname premiership player since Carlton's Bryan Quirk in 1968, and just the fourth overall. In 2024, Brisbane Lions Dayne Zorko became only the second premiership player with a Z surname and the first in 90 years behind Richmond's Eric Zschech, a member of the Tigers' premiership teams of 1932 and 1934.

Had Hawthorn gotten through it might have led to Jarman Impey becoming only the fifth player with an I surname to play in a flag winning team and the first since North Melbourne Steven Icke who was a member of the Kangaroos' 1977 premiership team, but unfortunately it was not to be. Maybe next year.

As for the two letters that have never had a premiership player yet - one of them U (although there have been U surname players in runner up teams or who played for eventual premiers in a season but not the GF) could be a chance with Jamarra Ugle-Hagan for the Western Bulldogs, an enigmatic team that could do anything in coming seasons. It doesn't look so promising for X, unless Tristan Xerri transfers away from lowly North Melbourne to a team in the premiership zone.
 

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The third missing point of the feline triangle of grand final meetings is now complete, with the Geelong Cats and Brisbane Lions set to play off in next Saturday's Grand Final.

Prior to this there have been Geelong Cats vs. Richmond Tigers Grand Finals, and a Richmond vs. Fitzroy Grand Final, but never a grand final between Geelong and either Brisbane or Fitzroy. Pre-merger, Fitzroy and Geelong were finals contenders in a number of sectional round finals series in the very early days of the VFL, but did not meet in a final until a semi-final in 1903. Twenty years would go by until they met again in a final when Lions defeated the Cats in a 1923 semi-final, with them only appearing in the same finals series once (1914) in that time. To say that finals series containing both Geelong and Fitzroy from this point on were few and far between is a huge understatement, with it only happening twice in 1952 and 1981, the Lions and Cats never meeting in September in either year.

In the mid-1990s, Geelong and the Brisbane Bears were in the same finals series in 1995 and 1996 but never actually met, and post merger Geelong were in the same finals series as the Brisbane Lions in 1997 and 2000 without them meeting. It wasn't until the 2004 Preliminary Final that the Lions and Cats played each other in a final for the first time in 81 years, and the teams have played a number of finals since then.
 
Indeed emuboy was perusing the finals record against Fitzroy and was shocked that it was just two sectional meetings early on, never once meeting in a final from the Page-Mcintyre system of 1931 to Fitzroy's end as a separate AFL club in 1996. But the GF this year will be the fifth meeting in six seasons, starting with the 2020 PF.
 
Players whose career-best tally in a game was 9 goals:
Harry Brereton (Melbourne vs. Geelong, 1909)
Only the second time any played kicked as many as nine goals in a match, and the first for nine-and-a-half seasons. Melbourne would not beat its 79-point win against Geelong for over 100 years.
Jack Dyer (Richmond vs. Essendon, 1944)
In the preliminary final.
Keith Forbes (Essendon vs. South Melbourne, 1936)
Out of a team total of 12.16, which lost to a score of 11.30!
John Frazer (Fitzroy vs. Richmond, 1978)
Never kicked another senior goal for the Lions, and in fact played only six games for Fitzroy seniors and 16 games of senior VFL football. This was an amazing match whereby Richmond kicked 10.4 in the first quarter and still lost — one of only four occurrence of a team kicking ten goals in the first term and ultimately losing. At the time it was only the second, and the first for 44 and a half seasons.
Allan La Fontaine (Melbourne vs. Hawthorn, 1934)
In his second League match after being a prolific goalkicker in the VAFA for Old Paradians and University Blacks. He would soon shift to the centre and lead Melbourne to a hat-trick of premierships.
Roy Moore (South Melbourne vs. Fitzroy, 1937)
Out of only ten goals by his team — the equal-most goals by a player kicking all but one of his team’s goals in the VFL/AFL.
Barry Richardson (Richmond vs. Essendon, 1972)
Also one of only three VFL players to keep Peter Hudson goalless. An amazing oddity is that the Tigers lost both that game against Essendon where Richardson kicked nine of sixteen goals at full-forwards, and the 1969 game where Richardson at full-back kept Hudson goalless.
An amazing 40-possession display. Tuddenham kicked five in the first quarter. Reminiscent of the Bulldogs’ own Ian Dunstan against St. Kilda seven seasons later
  • Larry Spokes and Joel Amartey have never kicked more than 4 goals in any other game.
  • Warren Ralph and Bill Wood kicked their nine goals on their league debut.
  • Brendan Fevola has kicked +5 goals in a game 50 times without ever kicking +10, the most ever. Does it also hurt more that his season best tally was 99 goals?
  • Jeremy Cameron is the only player to have a career best tally of 9 goals kicked for two separate teams.
  • Nick Riewoldt is the only player to have a career best tally of 9 goals in three separate games.
  • Larry Donohue is the only player to have kicked 100 goals in a season but never 10 goals in a game.
Interesting list. Some of those facts I was never aware of even if I knew some of the outlines regarding Fevola and Donohue.

I was well aware of players who never kicked more than five in any other game, including Mark Lee and Verdun Howell — who of course played almost all of their football away from the goal front — but did not know of Spokes or the recent (and possibly subject to change) case of Amartey. Spokes’ case is remarkable as it was the Saints’ first win of the season, and only their tenth in 92 games dating back to the seventeenth round of 1944. It’s all the more amazing in that it was not an especially big-scoring game: the Swans kicked only thirteen goals overall.
 
Always enjoy your work mianfei! Interesting with your mention of the margin of the Dees' biggest win over Geelong, I reckon it's rather a staggering stat that for all of Geelong's general propensity for high scoring and overall success vis-a-vis Carlton's comparative lack of success certainly since the 2000's, that Geelong's biggest win over Carlton is merely 78 points!

For a pair of foundation clubs that's a very low 'biggest' winning margin. In the context of that, I think all bar 10 of Geelong's 38 100+ point winning margins have happened from 1989 onwards. I find that relatively paltry 78 point margin quite a surprising stat.
 
Always enjoy your work mianfei! Interesting with your mention of the margin of the Dees' biggest win over Geelong, I reckon it's rather a staggering stat that for all of Geelong's general propensity for high scoring and overall success vis-a-vis Carlton's comparative lack of success certainly since the 2000's, that Geelong's biggest win over Carlton is merely 78 points!

For a pair of foundation clubs that's a very low 'biggest' winning margin. In the context of that, I think all bar 10 of Geelong's 38 100+ point winning margins have happened from 1989 onwards. I find that relatively paltry 78 point margin quite a surprising stat.
It's 39 100+ point winning margins for Geelong!:
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2 of the 5 in the 1980s occurred in 1981, with the other 3 in 1989 (so 12 prior to 1989).
1758802719751.png 1758802905296.png
 
Luke Hodge, a dual Norm Smith medallist, has just presented a Norm Smith medal to Will Ashcroft, who then became a dual Norm Smith medallist.


EDIT: In presenting the Norm Smith to Ashcroft (a Brisbane Lions player) Hodge also presented the medal to a player who played for a team he also had played for. The only other instance of this happening is when former Geelong star Bill Goggin presented the Norm Smith to Gary Ablett in 1989.
 
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Players with the same name playing in the same game:

Round 8, 1909 - South Melbourne vs. University - Jack Jones (one per team)
Round 10, 1909 - St Kilda vs. Essendon - Jim Stewart (both for St Kilda)
Round 7, 1911 - Collingwood vs. University - George Anderson (one per team)
Round 8, 1911 - Essendon vs. Fitzroy - Bill Walker (one per team)
Round 16, 1911 - University vs. Collingwood - George Anderson (one per team)
Round 17, 1911 - Fitzroy vs. Essendon - Bill Walker (one per team)
Round 18, 1911 - University vs. Geelong - Jack Gray (one per team)
Round 9, 1912 - Fitzroy vs. Essendon - Bill Walker (one per team)
Round 17, 1912 - University vs. Geelong - Jack Gray (one per team)
Round 18, 1912 - Essendon vs. Fitzroy - Bill Walker (one per team)
Round 14, 1913 - Essendon vs. Fitzroy - Bill Walker (one per team)
Round 16, 1913 - University vs. Essendon - Bill Walker (one per team)
Round 6, 1926 - St Kilda vs. Hawthorn - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 7, 1926 - St Kilda vs. Collingwood - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 9, 1926 - North Melbourne vs. St Kilda - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 10, 1926 - St Kilda vs. Footscray - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 11, 1926 - Carlton vs. St Kilda - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 12, 1926 - St Kilda vs. Melbourne - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 14, 1926 - St Kilda vs. South Melbourne - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 15, 1926 - Fitzroy vs. St Kilda - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 16, 1926 - St Kilda vs. Essendon - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 17, 1926 - Hawthorn vs. St Kilda - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 18, 1926 - St Kilda vs. North Melbourne - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 13, 1927 - Collingwood vs. Hawthorn - Frank Murphy (one per team)
Round 4, 1928 - Collingwood vs. Hawthorn - Frank Murphy (one per team)
Round 8, 1928 - Essendon vs. St Kilda - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 9, 1928 - St Kilda vs. Geelong - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 10, 1928 - Fitzroy vs. St Kilda - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 11, 1928 - St Kilda vs. Richmond - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 12, 1928 - St Kilda vs. Hawthorn - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 13, 1928 - South Melbourne vs. St Kilda - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 14, 1928 - North Melbourne vs. St Kilda - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 15, 1928 - St Kilda vs. Carlton - Jack Shelton (both for St Kilda)
Round 2, 1929 - Geelong vs. Melbourne - Jack Collins (one per team)
Round 13, 1929 - Melbourne vs. Geelong - Jack Collins (one per team)
Round 2, 1930 - Melbourne vs. Geelong - Jack Collins (one per team)
Round 6, 1933 - Footscray vs. St Kilda - George Chapman (both for St Kilda)
Round 13, 1941 - St Kilda vs. Geelong - Keith Miller (one per team)
Round 10, 1942 - North Melbourne vs. Collingwood - Ron Smith (one per team)
Round 16, 1942 - Collingwood vs. Hawthorn - Phil Ryan (one per team)
Round 1, 1943 - Collingwood vs. North Melbourne - Ron Smith (one per team)
Round 13, 1943 - Collingwood vs. North Melbourne - Ron Smith (one per team)
Round 2, 1944 - St Kilda vs. Footscray - Frank Kelly (one per team) - BOTH THEIR LAST GAME
Round 10, 1944 - Hawthorn vs. Richmond - Laurie Taylor (one per team)
Round 4, 1945 - Collingwood vs. Hawthorn - Phil Ryan (one per team)
Round 1, 1946 - Hawthorn vs. Collingwood - Phil Ryan (one per team)
Round 16, 1946 - North Melbourne vs. Carlton - Jack Bennett (one per team)
Round 4, 1950 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Jack Collins (one per team)
Round 15, 1950 - Footscray vs. Essendon - Jack Collins (one per team)
Round 10, 1951 - Collingwood vs. Footscray - Ron Richards (one per team)
Round 9, 1952 - Geelong vs. South Melbourne - Don Scott (one per team)
Round 13, 1952 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Brian Gilmore (one per team)
Round 8, 1955 - St Kilda vs. Footscray - Brian Gilmore (one per team)
Round 9, 1955 - Footscray vs. Hawthorn - Kevin Smith (both for Footscray)
Round 10, 1955 - Carlton vs. Footscray - Kevin Smith (both for Footscray)
Round 14, 1957 - Carlton vs. Footscray - Brian Buckley (one per team)
Round 2, 1959 - Footscray vs. Carlton - Brian Buckley (one per team)
Round 6, 1962 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 6, 1963 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 17, 1963 - Footscray vs. Essendon - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 9, 1964 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 3, 1965 - Footscray vs. Essendon - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 14, 1965 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 9, 1966 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 6, 1967 - Footscray vs. Essendon - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 17, 1967 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 9, 1968 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 20, 1968 - Footscray vs. Essendon - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 8, 1969 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 19, 1969 - Footscray vs. Essendon - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 2, 1970 - Essendon vs. Footscray - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 10, 1970 - Fitzroy vs. South Melbourne - John Murphy (one per team)
Round 13, 1970 - Footscray vs. Essendon - Don McKenzie (one per team)
Round 21, 1970 - South Melbourne vs. Fitzroy - John Murphy (one per team)
Round 2, 1971 - South Melbourne vs. Geelong - Peter Brown (one per team) - BOTH DEBUTANTS
Round 8, 1971 - South Melbourne vs. Fitzroy - John Murphy (one per team)
Round 19, 1971 - Fitzroy vs. South Melbourne - John Murphy (one per team)
Round 5, 1973 - Hawthorn vs. Footscray - Peter Welsh (one per team)
Round 4, 1976 - Hawthorn vs. Footscray - Peter Welsh (one per team)
Round 14, 1976 - Footscray vs. Hawthorn - Peter Welsh (one per team)
Round 7, 1977 - Footscray vs. Hawthorn - Peter Welsh (one per team)
Round 8, 1978 - Carlton vs. Fitzroy - Peter Brown (one per team)
Round 11, 1980 - Fitzroy vs. Carlton - Peter Brown (one per team)
Round 14, 1983 - Collingwood vs. Carlton - Mark Williams (one per team)
Round 22, 1989 - Brisbane Bears vs. Carlton - Michael Kennedy (one per team)
Round 15, 1998 - Western Bulldogs vs. Melbourne - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 3, 1999 - Collingwood vs. West Coast - Michael Gardiner (one per team)
Round 12, 2000 - Western Bulldogs vs. Melbourne - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 22, 2001 - Western Bulldogs vs. Melbourne - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 5, 2002 - Western Bulldogs vs. Melbourne - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 20, 2002 - Melbourne vs. Western Bulldogs - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 3, 2003 - Melbourne vs. Western Bulldogs - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 18, 2003 - Western Bulldogs vs. Melbourne - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 2, 2004 - Melbourne vs. Richmond - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 10, 2005 - Melbourne vs. Richmond - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 3, 2008 - Richmond vs. Collingwood - Nathan Brown (one per team)
Round 7, 2008 - Adelaide vs. North Melbourne - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 12, 2009 - Adelaide vs. North Melbourne - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 5, 2010 - Sydney vs. West Coast - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 3, 2011 - West Coast vs. Sydney - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 11, 2011 - North Melbourne vs. Adelaide - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 19, 2011 - Gold Coast vs. St Kilda - Tom Lynch (one per team)
Round 1, 2012 - Gold Coast vs. Adelaide - Tom Lynch (one per team)
Round 13, 2012 - North Melbourne vs. Adelaide - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 23, 2012 - Adelaide vs. Gold Coast - Tom Lynch (one per team)
Round 9, 2013 - North Melbourne vs. Adelaide - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 17, 2013 - West Coast vs. Sydney - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 20, 2013 - Adelaide vs. North Melbourne - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 13, 2014 - Adelaide vs. North Melbourne - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 16, 2014 - West Coast vs. Sydney - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 22, 2014 - North Melbourne vs. Adelaide - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 6, 2015 - Gold Coast vs. Adelaide - Tom Lynch (one per team)
Round 17, 2015 - West Coast vs. Sydney - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 17, 2015 - Adelaide vs. Gold Coast - Tom Lynch (one per team)
Round 1, 2016 - North Melbourne vs. Adelaide - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 5, 2016 - Sydney vs. West Coast - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 9, 2016 - Gold Coast vs. Adelaide - Tom Lynch (one per team)
Round 14, 2016 - Adelaide vs. North Melbourne - Scott Thompson (one per team)
Round 15, 2016 - West Coast vs. Essendon - Mitch Brown (one per team)
Round 4, 2017 - West Coast vs. Sydney - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 5, 2017 - Gold Coast vs. Adelaide - Tom Lynch (one per team)
Round 5, 2017 - Sydney vs. GWS - Sam Reid (one per team)
Round 3, 2018 - Sydney vs. GWS - Sam Reid (one per team)
Round 6, 2018 - Adelaide vs. Gold Coast - Tom Lynch (one per team)
Round 13, 2018 - Sydney vs. West Coast - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 6, 2019 - Sydney vs. GWS - Sam Reid (one per team)
Round 20, 2019 - GWS vs. Sydney - Sam Reid (one per team)
Round 5, 2020 - West Coast vs. Sydney - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 5, 2021 - Sydney vs. GWS - Sam Reid (one per team)
Round 16, 2021 - Sydney vs. West Coast - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 5, 2022 - West Coast vs. Sydney - Josh Kennedy (one per team)
Round 11, 2022 - West Coast vs. Western Bulldogs - Bailey Williams (one per team)
Round 23, 2023 - Western Bulldogs vs. West Coast - Bailey Williams (one per team)
Round 4, 2024 - Western Bulldogs vs. West Coast - Bailey Williams (one per team)
Round 24, 2025 - Western Bulldogs vs. West Coast - Bailey Williams (one per team)

Remarkably, thanks to the career longevities of player pairs Scott Thompson, Tom Lynch, Josh Kennedy, Sam Reid and Bailey Williams, we've had an instance every season since 2008!
 
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The list of players with long careers and no finals games sees most of them playing in poor sides in their eras, and most of them have WLD records that are deeply in the red.

One anomaly in the AFL Tables list of such players is Ray Poulter, a Richmond player of 170 games from 1946-1956 inclusive. Poulter did not play a single final for the Tigers during his 11 year tenure at the club, but while Richmond only qualified for the finals once during these seasons (1947) and Poulter did not play in these games, the Tigers were a competitive mid-ladder team and as a result Poulter ended up playing in more wins than losses (86-83-1) despite no finals.

I was also surprised to see Jack Watts on the list, but it turned out I remembered the later years of his career incorrectly. I thought he had stayed with Melbourne in 2018 when the Demons made the finals for the first time in 12 years, and was at Port Adelaide in 2019, 2020 and 2021, but as it turned out he left Melbourne at the end of 2017 and played at Port in only two seasons 2018 and 2019, the Power missing the finals both years. I could have sworn he was still playing in 2020 and 2021, but obviously was mistaken.
 
Just realised that Tom Barrass is the first and only player to have gone directly from West Coast to Hawthorn.
 

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Stats observations

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