Stats questions

[Supermercado]

Paul Johnson could very well end up playing one game for Hawthorn after starting his career with one game at West Coast..

Forgetting the 68 games in the middle (and I'd very much like to forget about 30 of them) how many players played a solitary game at two different clubs?

 

[Catsace]

On the same game theme as Supercercado's question, would Gold Coast be the first interstate side to not win a game at home all year? Bearing in mind they did win two games in Queensland being the Gabba over the Lions and Cairns over the Tigers, they did not salute at Metricon.

In a similar vein, barring the last winless season being the Lions in 1964, when was the last time any side failed to win a home game in a season?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Forgetting the 68 games in the middle (and I'd very much like to forget about 30 of them) how many players played a solitary game at two different clubs?

Jim Cullen owns this question, having played a solitary match with three different clubs over a six-year period. Surprising number of two-game, two-club players.

Player             Clubs            Career  Ma 1 Match
-------------------------------------------------------
Cullen, Jim        Es,Sy,Ca       1899-1904  3 Es,Sy,Ca
McCann, Peter      Sy,Es          1904-1907  2
Abbott, Les        Co,Ca,Ri,Me,Sy 1904-1912 39 Co,Ca
Fleming, Ted       Me,Un          1905-1908  2
McCart, George     Ca,Me,St       1905-1910  4 Ca,Me
Grant, Jack A.     Ca,St          1906-1908  2
Suhr, Charles      Me,St          1906-1911  2
Sadlier, Tom       Fi,Me          1907-1910  2
Freeman, Artie     Co,Fi,Es       1908-1911 29 Fi,Es
Godfrey, Bruce     Ri,Es          1910-1912  2
Somer, John        Co,St          1911       2
Moore, Jim         Me,Es          1911-1913  2
Moloughney, Tom    Fi,St          1911-1915  2
Loughnan, Jack     Ca,Fi          1912-1913  2
Nicholson, Jack    Un,Me          1912-1913  2
Cummins, Frank     Sy,Me          1918-1919  2
Woodfield, Clarrie Es,Sy          1921-1922  2
Ross, Ray R.       Ri,St          1922-1929  2
Anderson, Charlie  Ca,Sy,Ri,WB    1924-1927 16 Ca,WB
Whitely, Charlie   Ri,Ha          1925-1926  2
Hansen, Fred       WB,Ha          1928-1930  2
Mills, Bobby       WB,Ca          1929-1934  2
Seedsman, Bill     Ha,Co          1936-1942  2
Paternoster, Ron   WB,Ha          1937-1938  2
Morgan, Dave       Co,Ha          1950-1951  2
Dutton, Robert     Ca,Ha          1981-1982  2

 

[Ron The Bear]

On the same game theme as Supercercado's question, would Gold Coast be the first interstate side to not win a game at home all year? Bearing in mind they did win two games in Queensland being the Gabba over the Lions and Cairns over the Tigers, they did not salute at Metricon.

Technically yes, although the Brisbane win was a home game.

In a similar vein, barring the last winless season being the Lions in 1964, when was the last time any side failed to win a home game in a season?

Fitzroy 1995 - won two games, at Waverley and Football Park, and 0/7 at their Western Oval home. Their other 'home' games were played at Princes Park (2), Waverley and Bruce Stadium in Canberra.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I suppose you could "reverse the question" and ask: How often, if ever, have the bottom four/five teams at the end of the home and away season also been the four/five previous wooden spooners? (Depending on what the longest sequence is)

last 2 - 1917, 1927, 1928, 1931, 1945, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1964, 1972, 1979, 2007, 2009
last 3 - 1934, 1945, 1946, 1989, 1993
last 4 - 1946, 1993
last 5 - 1948
last 6 - 1946, 1948
last 7 - 1993
last 8 - 1993

 

[McCrann]

Record Finals Week Crowd? Could be beaten this week I suspect.

Well, I can forsee perhaps up to close to 290,000 to 300,000 through the gates this weekend.

90,000
85,000
75,000
50,000

What is the record? Presumably it would be during the Final 8 era? It couldn't possibly be otherwise.

 

[McCrann]

In a similar vein, the last game of the home and away season had made 2011 the most attended AFL Home & Away season on record (this is presuming the crowd at the Tigers v Kangas game is more than 20,00 - and it certainly looks it).

Yes - well aware the average this year is down, and will be again next year.

 

[*Paul*]

Record Finals Week Crowd? Could be beaten this week I suspect.

A very quick check suggests 2009's 241,315 as the record.

 

[RogersResults]

A very quick check suggests 2009's 241,315 as the record.

A not so quick check says it is. Should be beat.

 

[AC for PM]

What about stats for "per minute average" in 2011?
i.e. Goals per minute played?

 

[*Paul*]

If you mean for teams, the time played difference between each team is not significant, so gpm is more or less the same as most goals.

 

[Ron The Bear]

If you mean for teams, the time played difference between each team is not significant, so gpm is more or less the same as most goals.

I think the reference was to individual TOG. AFAIK these figures aren't available on the web except for Pro-Stats. Not sure if their numbers are the official ones.

 

[*Paul*]

The new afl.com.au stats app thingy has TOG, but it's expressed as a percentage, which makes it a little fuzzy.

 

[red+black]

How common is it for a player to have the same coach at different clubs? Can anyone name a few such instances in recent years? Any player/coach combination that combined for more than just a handful of games at each club?

And have two players coached each other? This could only have occurred in the days of playing coaches. A possible scenario would be that X was a playing coach of Y. X at some point gave up the coaching and Y became coach (be it as a player or not), or that they both left for another club, at which Y coached X.

 

[Ron The Bear]

How common is it for a player to have the same coach at different clubs? Can anyone name a few such instances in recent years? Any player/coach combination that combined for more than just a handful of games at each club?

And have two players coached each other? This could only have occurred in the days of playing coaches. A possible scenario would be that X was a playing coach of Y. X at some point gave up the coaching and Y became coach (be it as a player or not), or that they both left for another club, at which Y coached X.

Players to have played a minimum of 30 matches under the same coach at different clubs:

Player            Clubs      Career  CMa Coach             C1 CM1 C2 CM2 C3 M3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Icke, Steven      NM,Me    1975-1987 198 Barassi, Ron D.   NM 111 Me  76
Morris, Kevin     Ri,Co    1971-1981 181 Hafey, Tom        Ri 108 Co  71
Jarrott, Alan     NM,Me    1977-1986 170 Barassi, Ron D.   NM  64 Me  73
Crosswell, Brent  Ca,NM,Me 1968-1982 222 Barassi, Ron D.   Ca  59 NM  74 Me 33
Brown, Nathan G.  WB,Ri    1997-2009 219 Wallace, Terry    WB 114 Ri  56
Toohey, Bernard   Ge,Sy,WB 1981-1993 263 Hafey, Tom        Ge  55 Sy  64
Greene, Russell   St,Ha    1974-1988 304 Jeans, Allan      St  51 Ha 154
Thomas, Bill D.   Sy,Ri    1905-1919 197 Ricketts, Charlie Sy  41 Ri  45
Murrie, Richard   WB,Ge,Ri 1975-1983 111 Goggin, Bill      WB  35 Ge  35
Williams, Greg    Ge,Sy,Ca 1984-1997 250 Hafey, Tom        Ge  34 Sy  64
Jacobs, Graeme J. Me,Sy    1964-1970  93 Smith, Norm W.    Me  34 Sy  37
Gaudion, Charlie  WB,NM    1926-1937 140 Scanlan, Paddy    WB  33 NM  34
Condon, Dick      Co,Ri    1897-1909 181 Condon, Dick      Co  33 Ri  32
Edwards, Allan    Ri,Co,WB 1975-1984 113 Hafey, Tom        Ri  33 Co  30
Keenan, Peter     Me,NM,Es 1970-1982 213 Barassi, Ron D.   Me  30 NM  50

Other recent examples include
- Jordan McMahon, Patrick Bowden/Terry Wallace
- David Teague, Digby Morrell, Corey McKernan, Mick Martyn/Denis Pagan
- Michael Collica, Richard Taylor/Ken Judge
- Trent Croad/Chris Connolly
- Andrew Williams, Chad Morrison, Chad Rintoul, Scott Cummings, Murray Rance/Mick Malthouse
- Barry Hall/Rodney Eade
- Ronnie Burns/Gary Ayres
- Chris Sullivan, Haydn Robins, John Howat, Craig Lambert, Simon Eishold, Jamie Duursma/John Northey
- Peter Caven/Robert Shaw

Will take a look at the other question later tonight.

 

[Wickzki]

How many players have averaged 19+ disposals and kicked 70+ goals in a season. Franklin did it this year. Who else?

 

[*Paul*]

Since 1974:
Leigh Matthews did 20+ & 70+ five times. Wayne Carey 19+ twice, Gary Ablett Sr and Brad Johnson 19+ once each.

 

[Wickzki]

Thanks. Absolute elite group there. One of five players in almost forty years.

 

[Ron The Bear]

And have two players coached each other? This could only have occurred in the days of playing coaches. A possible scenario would be that X was a playing coach of Y. X at some point gave up the coaching and Y became coach (be it as a player or not), or that they both left for another club, at which Y coached X.

There have been 31 such instances, with all but six occurring before the end of WW2, and the last taking place at Fitzroy. Graham Campbell played 32 games in 1963-64 under captain-coach Kevin Murray; in 1974, Murray played his final three matches under Campbell while Campbell filled in as a caretaker after the resignation of Graham Donaldson.

Some famous names from the early VFL appear on the list of most combined matches for two players playing under one another as coach:

Ma Player 1          Club(s) Career  CMa CM Player 2        Club(s) Career  CMa CM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
88 Parratt, Percy    Fi    1909-1923 195 31 Holden, George  Fi    1908-1919 164 57
82 Hickey, Reg       Ge    1926-1940 245 70 Coghlan, Arthur Ge    1922-1932 145 12
72 Hagger, Lloyd     Ge    1917-1929 174 57 Rankin, Cliff   Ge    1915-1928 153 15
70 Warne-Smith, Ivor Me    1919-1932 146 54 Chadwick, Bert  Me,Ha 1920-1929 158 16
59 Rowell, Ted       Co    1901-1915 189 47 Angus, George   Co    1902-1911 157 12
56 McHale, Jock      Co    1903-1920 261 12 Rowell, Ted     Co    1901-1915 189 44
53 Eason, Bill       Ge    1902-1915 220 19 Orchard, Billy  Ge    1906-1915 112 34
52 Morrison, Alby    WB    1928-1946 224 51 Cubbins, Bill   St,WB 1915-1934 182  1
52 Olliver, Arthur   WB    1935-1950 272 32 Ware, Norm      WB    1932-1946 200 20
51 Eicke, Wels       St,NM 1909-1926 218 46 McNamara, Dave  St    1905-1923 122  5

 

[red+black]

Technically yes, although the Brisbane win was a home game.

Utterly ridiculous that Brisbane got two games at the GABBA against Gold Coast. I don't know how Gold Coast could have been happy with this. The first game should have been a Brisbane home game, the second a Gold Coast home game at Metricon.

And thanks for the stats Ron.

 

[RogersResults]

Utterly ridiculous that Brisbane got two games at the GABBA against Gold Coast. I don't know how Gold Coast could have been happy with this. The first game should have been a Brisbane home game, the second a Gold Coast home game at Metricon.

And thanks for the stats Ron.

Someone must have thought that Ablett v Geelong was a better first up at the new Carrara.

No doubt certain match-ups get prioritised first and then the rest of the fixture has to accommodate them.

 

[Nothing]

When was the last time Team A beat Team B in their first meeting only for team B to win by the same margin in their following meeting against Team A?

What is the greatest margin that this has occurred?

 

[Ron The Bear]

When was the last time Team A beat Team B in their first meeting only for team B to win by the same margin in their following meeting against Team A?

What is the greatest margin that this has occurred?

Has happened 101 times, most recently Adelaide v Port this season (R4 lost by 32, R19 won by 32).

Biggest margins:

Ma Cb Op M#1 M#2 R R Year&R1 Year&R2
------------------------------------
80 Me WB  32  33 L W 1943  6 1943 12
57 Co St  37  38 W L 1911 18 1912  3
38 Ha Ri  38  39 L W 1946 11 1947  5
36 Co St 160 161 W L 1982 11 1982 21
35 Ge WB 138 139 W L 2005  6 2005 17
33 NM Fi 113 114 W L 1987 16 1988 10
32 Ad PA  30  31 L W 2011  4 2011 19
31 Ge Ri  60  61 L W 1937  6 1937 17
31 Ge Ha  28  29 W L 1946  2 1946 13
30 Ca Ri 200 201 L W 2008  1 2008 14

7 occurrences each for margins of 4, 5 & 28 points.

 

[RogersResults]

When was the last time Team A beat Team B in their first meeting only for team B to win by the same margin in their following meeting against Team A?

What is the greatest margin that this has occurred?

Adelaide won by 32 and lost to Port Adelaide by 32 this year.

80 points. Demons and Dogs 1943.

More about reversed results in a season here

 

[Nothing]

I thought it might take a little while to work out but nope you're quick as a flash. I'll have to come up with somthing more difficult.

Cheers for answering