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Stats questions

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Richmond and Carlton met in Round 1 this year. Richmond has finished the year as minor premiers while Carlton finished last winning the wooden spoon.

I recall the same situation in 1976 with Carlton and Collingwood meeting in Round 1. Carlton were minor premiers that year while Collingwood won the wooden spoon.

Are there any other instances of the eventual minor premier and wooden spooner meeting in Round 1?
 
North park said:
Richmond and Carlton met in Round 1 this year. Richmond has finished the year as minor premiers while Carlton finished last winning the wooden spoon.

I recall the same situation in 1976 with Carlton and Collingwood meeting in Round 1. Carlton were minor premiers that year while Collingwood won the wooden spoon.

Are there any other instances of the eventual minor premier and wooden spooner meeting in Round 1?
Click to expand...

This year was the first instance since 1984. In my list I have put the minor premier first.

1906 Carlton vs Melbourne (Carlton won by 27)
1913 Fitzroy vs University (Fitzroy by 42)
1916 Carlton vs Fitzroy (Fitzroy by 4)
1917 Collingwood vs Richmond (Collingwood by 49)
1945 South Melbourne vs St. Kilda (South by 41)
1953 Geelong vs Hawthorn (Geelong by 49)
1955 Melbourne vs St. Kilda (Melbourne by 59)
1973 Collingwood vs South Melbourne (Collingwood by 76)
1976 Carlton vs Collingwood (Carlton by 57)
1983 North Melbourne vs St. Kilda (North by 13)
1984 Essendon vs St. Kilda (Essendon by 37)
2018 Richmond vs Carlton (Richmond by 26)
 

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happy to research this myself later

I'm wondering when was the last time a Victorian team had all their 11 home games at the 1 ground.
 
There are plenty of players who left their original club to play for a rival but returned to the first club later in their career such as Peter Bell (Fremantle - North Melbourne - Fremantle) but which is the quickest 'homecoming' by one of these players?

I remember Corey McKernan who played for North Melbourne in 1994-2001 transferred to Carlton for 2002 & 2003, but was back at Arden Street playing for the Kangaroos by 2004. Are there any players whose stint away was less than McKernan's two years and they only lasted a year or even less at their new club before returning home?
 
red+black said:
How do you work out finals odds? For example, how do the top 4 sides have an 18.75% (3 in 16) chance of winning the flag?

http://forum.weatherzone.com.au/ubbthreads.php/topics/607983/Re_Simulation_of_the_football_

Next I want to determine the odds under all previous finals systems.
Click to expand...
If you assume each game is a 50/50, the odds of winning 3 in a row is:
(1/2)×(1/2)×(1/2)=1/8 OR 0.0125

Then you add the odds of losing the 1st week but winning the next 3.
(1/2)×(1/2)×(1/2)×(1/2)=1/16 OR 0.00612

Add them together you get 0.1875, written as a percentage is 18.75%

red+black said:
happy to research this myself later

I'm wondering when was the last time a Victorian team had all their 11 home games at the 1 ground.
Click to expand...
Saints this year, I believe. There would be a few years where Bulldogs have done it as well I think.
 
emuboy said:
There are plenty of players who left their original club to play for a rival but returned to the first club later in their career such as Peter Bell (Fremantle - North Melbourne - Fremantle) but which is the quickest 'homecoming' by one of these players?

I remember Corey McKernan who played for North Melbourne in 1994-2001 transferred to Carlton for 2002 & 2003, but was back at Arden Street playing for the Kangaroos by 2004. Are there any players whose stint away was less than McKernan's two years and they only lasted a year or even less at their new club before returning home?
Click to expand...

Ken Newland (Geelong 1965-75, 77-78; Footscray 1976) comes to mind, emuboy.
About the same time, Phil Baker (NM 1971-75, 77-79; Geelong 1975) left North Melbourne in midseason and played half a season with Geelong.
However, Baker didn't play a senior game in 1976, so I'm not sure if he was languishing in the Cats' reserves or had temporarily left the VFL.
 
I wonder if any of the players that changed clubs during a season (when that was allowed) returned to their original club.

Anyone have a list of players that changed clubs during a season, like John Blair (1978) and Greg Wells (1980) for instance?

I also wonder how many players have debuted for 2 clubs in the same season?
 
Last edited:

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red+black said:
I also wonder how many players have debuted for 2 clubs in the same season?
Click to expand...
This post should cover that: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/stats-questions.982511/page-94#post-26463230
Ron The Bear said:
Full list:

Year|Player|Clubs|Career|Games
\1899|Cullen, Jim|Es,Sy,Ca|1899-1904|3
\1911|Campbell, Bruce|Ca,Fi,Me|1911-1920|23
\1911|Somer, John|Co,St|1911|2
\1913|Angwin, Bill|Me,St|1913-1914|9
\1913|Edwards, Fred|Es,Me|1913|4
\1913|Millhouse, Algy|Me,St|1913|20
\1925|Larkin, Martin|WB,Ha|1925-1926|7
\1925|McComb, Bert|Es,Ha|1925-1929|21
\1925|Neill, Harry|Sy,WB,St|1925-1933|103
\1927|Donald, Bill|Ca,Fi|1927|3
\1930|Smith, Arthur|WB,NM|1930|5
\1937|White, Clarrie|WB,St|1937|5
\1938|Catton, Len|Me,Fi|1938-1939|6
\1956|Seymour, Ken|Fi,Sy|1956-1957|12
\1959|Anderson, Noel|NM,Ri|1959-1960|13
\1976|Lynch, Alan|WB,Ri|1976|7
Click to expand...
 
red+black said:
Anyone have a list of players that changed clubs during a season, like John Blair (1978) and Greg Wells (1980) for instance?
Click to expand...
This has the list of players who played for two clubs in a season: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/stats-questions.982511/page-253#post-56817833
Ron The Bear said:
Year|Player|Club 1|G1|Club 2|G2|Gms|Clubs|Career
\1898|Aitken, Jimmy M.|Ca|2|Me|4|19|Ca,Me|1897-1898
\1899|Cullen, Jim|Es|1|Sy|1|3|Es,Sy,Ca|1899-1904
\1904|Pleass, Mick|Sy|3|Es|4|113|Sy,Es|1897-1904
\1910|Ellin, Percy|St|4|Ri|1|71|St,Ri|1905-1910
\1910|Hazel, Ern|St|1|Me|4|19|St,Me,Es|1909-1912
\1910|Landmann, Otto|Es|1|Me|2|29|Es,Me|1907-1910
\1910|Whelpton, Fred|Es|1|Me|2|18|St,Es,Me|1904-1911
\1911|Campbell, Bruce|Ca|3|Fi|9|23|Ca,Fi,Me|1911-1920
\1911|Farrell, Ted|Fi|1|Ri|5|53|Fi,Ri|1910-1914
\1911|Freeman, Artie|Fi|1|Es|1|29|Co,Fi,Es|1908-1911
\1911|Norris, Charlie|Co|7|Fi|7|124|Co,Fi|1910-1918
\1911|O'Connor, George|Ri|2|St|2|5|Ri,St|1910-1911
\1911|Somer, John|Co|1|St|1|2|Co,St|1911
\1911|Taylor, Charlie J.|Ca|3|St|6|13|Me,Ca,St|1906-1912
\1912|Abbott, Les|Me|3|Sy|3|39|Co,Ca,Ri,Me,Sy|1904-1912
\1912|Maguire, Mick|Ri|8|Me|10|67|Ri,Me,Co|1910-1918
\1913|Angwin, Bill|Me|3|St|4|9|Me,St|1913-1914
\1913|Bristow, Jack|Me|3|Ri|5|28|Ca,Me,Ri|1910-1913
\1913|Edwards, Fred|Es|1|Me|3|4|Es,Me|1913
\1913|Fitzpatrick, Jim|Me|6|Ri|7|88|Me,Ri|1907-1913
\1913|Heaney, Tom*|Ri|1|Fi|17|154|Ri,Fi|1908-1921
\1913|Martin, Jim*|Es|6|Fi|9|128|Ca,Es,Fi|1902-1914
\1913|Millhouse, Algy|Me|10|St|10|20|Me,St|1913
\1914|Watt, Jack W.|Me|3|St|5|54|Ge,Me,St|1909-1914
\1914|Williamson, Alf|Ca|1|Me|8|19|Ca,Me|1912-1914
\1914|Woolley, Jack|Es|1|Me|2|23|Es,Me,Ca|1913-1919
\1915|Dinsmore, Bill|Es|1|St|1|33|Fi,Es,St|1908-1915
\1915|Donald, Bobby|St|3|Es|3|29|St,Es|1914-1920
\1915|Martyn, Percy|Ri|2|Es|7|75|St,Ri,Es|1912-1921
\1915|Richardson, Ned|Ri|2|Es|8|50|Fi,Ri,Es|1908-1918
\1918|Nankervis, Vic A.P.|Es|1|Fi|2|8|Es,Fi|1915-1918
\1918|Stewart, Ray|Ri|1|Ca|4|38|Ri,Ca|1915-1919
\1919|Hore, Bill|Ca|2|Me|2|21|St,Ca,Me|1913-1919
\1925|Kennedy, Pat A.|Ca|2|Ha|3|26|Ca,Ha|1923-1925
\1925|Larkin, Martin|WB|3|Ha|1|7|WB,Ha|1925-1926
\1925|McComb, Bert|Es|3|Ha|3|21|Es,Ha|1925-1929
\1925|Neill, Harry|Sy|2|WB|3|103|Sy,WB,St|1925-1933
\1925|O'Brien, Paddy|Ca|5|WB|9|182|Ca,WB|1913-1926
\1925|Sullivan, Jimmy|Es|1|Me|6|96|Es,Me|1918-1925
\1926|Anderson, Charlie|Sy|3|Ri|3|16|Ca,Sy,Ri,WB|1924-1927
\1926|Eicke, Wels|NM|4|St|3|218|St,NM,St|1909-1926
\1926|Shorten, Teddy|NM|1|Es|5|11|NM,Es|1925-1926
\1927|Arthur, Vin|St|1|Ca|11|80|St,Ca|1926-1933
\1927|Day, Roy|NM|1|WB|2|6|NM,WB|1926-1927
\1927|Donald, Bill|Ca|2|Fi|1|3|Ca,Fi|1927
\1927|Neill, Harry|WB|4|St|6|103|Sy,WB,St|1925-1933
\1927|Sharpley, Jack|WB|2|Ha|5|49|WB,Ha|1926-1932
\1928|Baker, Reg|Co|1|Ri|10|70|Co,Ri|1922-1928
\1928|Barlow, Arthur|Sy|5|WB|4|47|Sy,WB|1925-1929
\1928|Cameron, Paul|Sy|6|Ca|2|24|Sy,Ca|1926-1928
\1928|Fairley, Rolland|Sy|2|Ha|12|22|Sy,Ha|1927-1928
\1928|Poulter, Joe|Co|2|Sy|13|120|Co,Sy|1923-1931
\1929|Robbins, George|Ca|1|WB|8|24|St,Ca,WB|1921-1930
\1929|Watson, Jim|Ca|1|Fi|6|97|Ca,Fi|1921-1929
\1930|Donnelly, Gerry|NM|2|Es|3|29|Me,NM,Es|1925-1930
\1930|Sheil, Ernie|Ca|1|Ha|5|12|Ca,Ha|1929-1930
\1930|Smith, Arthur|WB|3|NM|2|5|WB,NM|1930
\1931|Collins, Norm|Ca|1|Ha|12|92|Fi,Ca,Ha|1924-1933
\1931|George, Jack|Co|4|St|6|73|Co,St,Sy|1930-1936
\1932|Baker, Ted|Ge|5|Co|10|142|Ca,Co,Ge,Co,WB|1920-1934
\1932|Dowd, Dinny|Sy|2|NM|2|19|Fi,Sy,NM|1931-1932
\1932|Fisher, Clem|Sy|4|St|9|23|Sy,St|1931-1932
\1932|Gray, Wally|Ri|1|Fi|9|90|Ri,Fi|1931-1938
\1932|Morden, Clem|St|1|Co|3|21|St,Co|1928-1932
\1932|Ryan, Jack F.|Es|2|Fi|4|9|Es,Fi|1931-1932
\1933|Cave, Matt|WB|1|St|11|24|WB,St|1932-1934
\1933|Hammond, Bob S.|Ha|3|St|1|35|Ha,St|1927-1933
\1933|Johnson, Len|Es|3|NM|5|69|Es,NM|1929-1933
\1933|Libbis, Billy|Co|1|Me|14|177|Co,Me|1925-1935
\1933|Scharp, Bruce|Ha|1|Fi|2|10|Ca,Ha,Fi|1930-1933
\1934|Baker, Selwyn|NM|5|Co|1|38|NM,Co|1931-1934
\1934|Cameron, Charlie J.|NM|3|Fi|9|145|NM,Fi|1926-1936
\1934|Cashman, Jack|Fi|2|Ca|12|93|Fi,Ca|1926-1935
\1934|Edmonds, Horrie*|Co|5|Ri|12|110|Co,Ri,WB|1929-1937
\1934|Hearn, Maurie|Sy|1|Fi|10|136|Sy,Fi|1932-1944
\1934|Hughson, Les W.|Ca|3|St|9|73|Co,Ha,Ca,St,Fi|1927-1937
\1934|Muir, Bob|WB|7|Fi|2|57|Co,WB,Fi|1927-1934
\1934|Niven, Ray|Fi|1|Me|2|25|Fi,Me|1931-1934
\1934|Riley, Lou|Me|3|Co|4|64|Me,Co|1932-1938
\1935|Beard, Bert|Sy|1|Fi|13|49|Sy,Fi|1932-1935
\1935|Maskell, Harold|Ca|1|Ha|2|28|Ge,Ca,Ha|1932-1936
\1936|Dougherty, George|Ca|6|Ge|9|173|Ca,Ge,WB,Ge,Sy|1934-1945
\1936|Johnson, Maurie|Ca|6|Sy|8|128|Ca,Sy|1927-1937
\1936|Kuhlken, Bill|Ge|6|Ca|5|89|Ge,Ca|1930-1937
\1936|McKenzie, Jock|Sy|3|Fi|4|103|Sy,Fi,Sy|1931-1940
\1936|Neeson, Alf|Fi|1|Ha|11|41|Fi,Ha|1935-1938
\1936|O'Meara, Jim|Sy|1|Fi|9|57|Sy,Fi|1933-1937
\1936|Wrout, Jack|NM|6|Ca|8|183|NM,Ca|1931-1944
\1937|Eason, Dick|WB|4|Es|2|27|WB,Es|1935-1937
\1937|Lowenthal, Bill|Es|2|Fi|13|86|Es,Fi|1930-1937
\1937|Maynes, Leo|Fi|1|Es|8|51|Fi,Es|1935-1940
\1937|McFarlane, Mick|Es|1|NM|10|54|Es,NM|1936-1940
\1937|McInnes, Russell|Fi|3|Sy|3|16|Fi,Sy|1936-1937
\1937|Mitchell, Col|WB|3|NM|5|24|WB,NM|1935-1939
\1937|Mullane, Stan|Sy|5|Ge|1|16|Sy,Ge|1936-1937
\1937|Neeson, Clem|Ca|4|St|3|13|Ca,St|1936-1937
\1937|Penberthy, Stan|WB|5|Me|11|86|WB,Me|1932-1937
\1937|White, Clarrie|WB|4|St|1|5|WB,St|1937
\1938|Catton, Len|Me|2|Fi|1|6|Me,Fi|1938-1939
\1938|Collard, George|Ca|1|Sy|7|73|Ca,Sy|1935-1942
\1938|Hurley, Alf|Ha|4|Fi|1|53|Ha,Fi,St|1935-1942
\1939|Clark, Eric|Fi|3|NM|2|36|Fi,NM|1936-1939
\1939|Jacobs, Harry|Fi|2|Ha|2|6|Fi,Ha|1938-1939
\1939|MacRae, Cliff|WB|5|Co|3|61|WB,Co|1935-1939
\1939|Pierce, Charlie|Ha|2|NM|1|18|Ha,NM|1937-1939
\1939|Reiffel, Lou|Me|1|Sy|11|64|Me,Sy|1936-1941
\1939|Stackpole, Keith|Co|3|Fi|11|118|Co,Fi|1935-1944
\1940|Chirgwin, Dick|Sy|1|WB|3|83|Ri,Sy,WB,NM|1934-1943
\1940|Macknamara, Lindsay|Sy|1|Fi|3|8|Sy,Fi|1939-1941
\1940|Quinn, Jack A.|Sy|1|Ri|7|35|Sy,Ri,Me|1938-1946
\1942|Hall, Billy|Es|1|Fi|2|24|Es,Fi|1935-1942
\1942|Lahiff, Tommy|Sy|6|Ha|5|74|Es,Sy,Ha|1935-1944
\1942|Martin, Des|Sy|1|Ri|5|15|Sy,Ri|1941-1942
\1942|Neenan, Bernie|Me|1|Sy|3|11|Me,Sy|1940-1942
\1943|Goldsmith, Gordon|Sy|1|Ha|5|18|Sy,Ha|1936-1943
\1943|McGain, Syd|Fi|1|NM|6|25|Es,Fi,NM|1938-1945
\1944|Benison, Alf|Sy|1|WB|9|51|Sy,WB|1939-1944
\1944|Clay, Alf|Fi|1|NM|11|83|Ha,WB,Fi,NM|1937-1946
\1944|Hazelwood, Les|Sy|3|St|1|10|Sy,St|1943-1944
\1944|Knott, Arch|Fi|1|St|1|49|Fi,St|1938-1945
\1944|Symons, Jack S.*|Ri|1|Fi|9|147|Ri,Fi|1934-1946
\1944|Wells, Billy G.|NM|1|St|7|36|NM,St|1939-1945
\1945|Balfour, Don|Co|2|Ri|5|79|Co,Ri|1938-1946
\1945|Crane, Tom|Sy|1|NM|1|8|Sy,NM|1942-1945
\1945|Dalton, Pat|Co|2|NM|1|33|Co,NM|1941-1945
\1945|Dougherty, George|Ge|5|Sy|10|173|Ca,Ge,WB,Ge,Sy|1934-1945
\1945|Negri, Des|Co|2|Ri|2|32|Co,Ri|1942-1945
\1946|Broadway, Allan|WB|3|Fi|3|19|WB,Fi|1945-1946
\1946|Calverley, Des|Fi|2|Ri|12|70|Fi,Ri|1940-1947
\1946|Mears, Harry|Co|2|Sy|15|97|Co,Sy|1940-1948
\1947|Mace, Ken|Ha|2|St|12|20|Ha,St|1946-1947
\1947|Newman, Dave|Co|2|Me|4|53|Co,Me|1944-1947
\1948|Kennedy, George|NM|1|Sy|5|85|NM,Sy|1937-1948
\1948|McIntyre, Ern|St|5|Co|8|92|St,Co|1940-1949
\1948|Russell, Wally|Ri|2|Ge|9|58|Ri,Ge|1942-1949
\1949|Greenshields, Allan|Ca|2|St|10|74|Ca,St|1947-1954
\1949|Robb, Tim|WB|5|NM|10|74|WB,NM|1947-1951
\1950|Bowman, Gordon|Me|1|Ha|16|82|Me,Ha|1945-1951
\1950|Goninon, George|Es|2|Ge|14|87|Es,Ge|1948-1954
\1950|Newton, Ken|Es|3|Ha|8|33|Es,Ha|1947-1951
\1951|Milroy, Bill|NM|1|Ca|3|97|NM,Ca|1950-1956
\1952|Gibb, Ray|Ha|1|Ri|5|28|Ha,Ri|1950-1953
\1952|Hartigan, Jack|Ha|2|St|3|22|Ha,St|1951-1953
\1952|Toohey, Jack|Fi|2|St|6|63|Fi,St|1947-1952
\1953|Schofield, Peter|Ri|2|Me|6|72|Ri,Me,NM|1951-1960
\1954|Bradley, Kevin|Es|2|Ri|6|11|Es,Ri|1953-1954
\1954|Gelavis, Nick|Sy|1|WB|4|19|Sy,WB|1953-1954
\1954|Patterson, Jeff|Ri|1|Fi|7|41|Sy,Ri,Fi|1951-1954
\1955|Baumgartner, Ivan|Ge|3|Me|5|48|Ge,Me,St|1953-1956
\1955|Reeves, John|NM|2|St|8|110|NM,St|1948-1955
\1955|Smith, Kevin R.|NM|2|WB|4|47|NM,WB|1950-1956
\1956|Dale, Alan|Es|3|St|13|62|Es,St|1950-1957
\1956|Munro, Frank|Ca|4|Ri|6|27|Ca,Ri|1954-1957
\1956|Seymour, Ken|Fi|4|Sy|6|12|Fi,Sy|1956-1957
\1957|Kupsch, Bob|Co|4|St|8|40|Co,St|1954-1958
\1957|Wiltshire, Bob|Ge|2|NM|12|66|Ge,NM|1954-1959
\1958|Kerr, John|WB|1|Me|1|82|WB,Me|1953-1958
\1958|Rayson, Noel|Ge|2|Sy|6|107|Ge,Sy|1950-1959
\1958|Reynolds, Doug|WB|1|Ri|10|95|WB,Ri|1952-1959
\1958|Stockman, Ron|WB|7|Sy|10|96|WB,Sy|1953-1961
\1959|Anderson, Noel|NM|1|Ri|3|13|NM,Ri|1959-1960
\1959|Jenkins, John|Ri|4|NM|7|105|Ri,NM|1955-1964
\1962|Wicks, Brian|Fi|3|NM|5|13|Fi,NM|1960-1962
\1964|Matthews, Herbie J.|Me|4|Sy|8|102|Me,Sy|1961-1969
\1965|Carroll, Bob|Ha|4|Fi|5|27|Me,Ha,Fi|1961-1966
\1965|Erwin, Mick|Co|3|Ri|12|62|Co,Ri|1962-1968
\1968|Magee, Stuart|Sy|4|WB|14|216|Sy,WB|1962-1975
\1968|Pitt, Max|Co|5|St|4|34|Co,St|1966-1969
\1968|Pleitner, Bryan|WB|4|Ha|1|29|WB,Ha|1965-1968
\1968|Searl, Doug|Co|4|Fi|8|143|Co,Fi|1966-1976
\1968|Wallis, Gary|Co|5|St|3|36|Co,St|1966-1968
\1969|Richardson, Alan G.|Ri|3|Sy|6|110|Ri,Sy|1959-1970
\1971|Barrot, Bill|St|2|Ca|12|134|Ri,St,Ca|1961-1971
\1971|Mitchell, Chris|Ge|4|Ca|5|51|Ge,Ca|1967-1971
\1972|Lakes, George|Me|2|Sy|6|55|Me,Sy|1968-1972
\1972|Moore, Eric Ronald|Ri|5|Sy|11|98|Ri,Sy|1966-1973
\1972|Walsh, Wayne|Sy|8|Ri|13|151|Ri,Sy,Ri|1968-1978
\1973|Lukas, Andrew|Ca|2|Fi|8|64|Ca,Fi|1970-1975
\1973|Rae, Stephen*|St|2|Ri|8|75|St,Ri|1969-1974
\1974|Andrews, Gareth*|Ge|6|Ri|13|167|Ge,Ri|1965-1975
\1974|Chandler, Neil|Ca|4|St|6|82|Ca,St|1968-1974
\1974|Hunt, Rex|Ri|7|Ge|15|202|Ri,Ge,St|1968-1978
\1974|McMillan, Marty|Ri|3|WB|2|33|Ri,WB|1972-1975
\1974|O'Halloran, Max|WB|3|Ca|5|18|WB,Ca|1972-1974
\1974|Robertson, Ian|Ca|3|WB|4|129|Ca,WB|1966-1974
\1974|Ruscuklic, Alex|Fi|1|Ca|9|117|Fi,Ca|1966-1974
\1975|Baker, Phil|NM|5|Ge|9|106|NM,Ge,NM|1971-1979
\1975|Coles, Henry|Co|5|Me|9|121|Co,Me|1971-1980
\1975|Crosswell, Brent*|Ca|1|NM|18|222|Ca,NM,Me|1968-1982
\1975|Roberts, Brian|Ri|5|Sy|15|93|Ri,Sy|1971-1975
\1975|Smith, Ray|Es|12|Me|10|104|Es,Me|1971-1976
\1975|Walsh, Brian T.|Ca|6|Es|10|115|Ca,Es|1970-1978
\1976|Lynch, Alan|WB|5|Ri|2|7|WB,Ri|1976
\1976|Malthouse, Mick|St|3|Ri|9|174|St,Ri|1972-1983
\1977|Bond, Graeme|Ri|1|St|15|171|Ri,St|1967-1980
\1977|Hodges, Russell|Sy|5|Fi|10|69|Sy,Fi|1973-1978
\1977|Scarlett, John|Ge|7|Sy|10|212|Ge,Sy|1967-1978
\1977|Serafini, Renato|Fi|1|Ca|4|88|Fi,Ca|1971-1978
\1978|Blair, John|Sy|3|Fi|4|33|Sy,Fi,St|1975-1980
\1978|Byrne, Ray|Ca|3|Co|11|219|Ca,Co,Ge|1973-1984
\1978|Matthews, Kelvin|Ha|4|Ge|8|155|Ha,Ge|1972-1982
\1978|Walls, Robert|Ca|5|Fi|14|259|Ca,Fi|1967-1980
\1979|Edwards, Allan|Ri|4|Co|11|113|Ri,Co,WB|1975-1984
\1979|Murphy, John F.|Sy|7|NM|6|246|Fi,Sy,NM|1967-1980
\1979|Oborne, Rod|Co|3|Ri|3|92|Co,Ri|1972-1981
\1979|Young, David|Sy|4|Co|1|62|Sy,Co|1977-1981
\1980|Callery, Paul|St|2|Sy|1|182|Me,St,Sy|1970-1980
\1980|Fitzpatrick, Peter|Ca|3|St|4|13|Ca,St|1978-1980
\1980|Greene, Russell|St|8|Ha|14|304|St,Ha|1974-1988
\1980|King, Tony|Ha|1|St|4|16|Ha,St|1978-1980
\1980|Sarah, Paul|Ge|2|Ri|11|165|Ge,Ri|1972-1983
\1980|Scott, Mark|Ha|2|St|13|78|Ha,St,Fi|1978-1989
\1980|Wells, Greg T.|Me|12|Ca|10|267|Me,Ca|1969-1982
\1981|Boyse, Maurice|NM|4|Sy|5|75|Es,NM,Sy|1975-1983
\1981|Carlson, Leigh|Co|4|Fi|15|117|Co,Fi|1978-1984
\1981|Cassin, John H.|NM|4|Fi|3|134|Es,NM,Fi|1971-1982
\1981|Fields, Neville|Sy|6|Es|2|200|Es,Sy,Es|1969-1982
\1981|Francis, Peter|Ca|11|Fi|7|158|Ca,Fi,Ri,Es|1979-1988
\1981|Herbert, Des|Co|3|Fi|7|22|Co,Fi|1980-1983
\1981|Middlemiss, Glenn|Ge|3|St|9|50|Ge,St|1979-1984
\1982|Byrne, Michael|Me|1|Ha|22|167|Me,Ha,Sy|1977-1989
\1982|Floyd, Tom|Ge|7|Co|9|61|Ge,Co|1978-1983
\1982|Waddell, Rod|Ca|2|Ge|4|25|Ca,Ge|1981-1984
\1983|Christensen, Ross|WB|1|Ge|2|12|WB,Ge|1982-1983
\1983|Fowler, Grant|Es|7|Ha|1|100|Fi,Es,Ha|1976-1984
\1983|Kink, Rene|Co|8|Es|9|181|Co,Es,St|1973-1986
\1983|Klomp, Robbert|Ca|3|WB|8|93|Ca,WB|1979-1984
\1983|Nettlefold, Michael|St|5|Fi|9|74|St,Fi|1979-1985
\1983|Reid, Alan A.|Es|1|Ge|7|52|Es,Ge|1979-1983
\1983|Scott, Mark|St|4|Fi|4|78|Ha,St,Fi|1978-1989
\1983|Sutton, Darryl|Ri|2|Sy|14|111|NM,Ri,Sy|1973-1983
\1984|McLean, Glenn|Me|2|Co|2|44|Me,Co|1980-1984
\1984|Pirrie, Stephen|Ri|1|St|7|19|Ri,St,Es|1982-1985
\1985|Buckley, Mark|Ca|1|St|7|38|Ca,St,Br|1982-1987
\1985|Parish, Les|Fi|5|Me|7|94|Fi,Me|1980-1985
\1986|Bradbury, Peter|Es|1|Co|12|72|Es,Co|1983-1987
\1986|Carey, Stephen|Es|1|Ge|7|112|Es,Ge|1980-1986
\1986|Lockman, Michael|Ri|3|Co|8|30|Ri,Co,Sy|1983-1988
\1986|McCormack, Peter|Ri|4|Fi|1|165|Co,Ri,Fi|1976-1986
\1986|Raines, Geoff|Co|2|Es|14|254|Ri,Co,Es,Br|1976-1989
\1986|Richardson, Michael|Co|1|Es|15|156|Co,Es,Br|1983-1990
\1986|Ryan, Brendan|NM|4|Fi|1|18|NM,Fi|1983-1986
\1987|Sidebottom, Allan|St|2|Fi|1|56|St,Fi|1983-1987
\1987|Williams, Shane|Ge|1|WB|7|61|Ri,Ge,WB|1979-1988
\1988|Eustice, Mark|Ri|6|Sy|5|137|Es,Ri,Sy|1980-1991
\1990|Harris, Bernie|Br|7|St|5|107|Fi,Br,St|1984-1990
\1991|Spencer, Trevor|Me|1|Ge|10|44|Es,Me,Ge|1985-1991
\1992|Johnston, David|Es|2|Fi|5|66|Es,Fi|1987-1994
\1992|McMullin, Ian|Es|1|Co|3|49|Co,Es,Co|1984-1993
* premiership player
Click to expand...
 
red+black said:
I wonder if any of the players that changed clubs during a season (when that was allowed) returned to their original club.
Click to expand...
Jock McKenzie fits the bill. He played for South Melbourne 1931, 1933-36, Fitzroy 1936-39 and South Melbourne 1940.

Phil Baker (mentioned a few posts ago) does qualify.

There may have been others who made such a move but didn't play senior football when they moved back to the original/previous club.
=========================================================================
There's a few players who are in a similar, but (perhaps) different category, yet worth mentioning anyway!:

Wels Eicke played for St Kilda 1909-15, 1918-24, North Melbourne 1925-26 and St Kilda 1926.

Ted Baker played for Carlton 1920, Collingwood 1922-23, Geelong 1927-32, Collingwood 1932 and Footscray 1934.

Wayne Walsh played for Richmond 1968, South Melbourne 1969-72 and Richmond 1972-75, 1977-78.

Neville Fields played for Essendon 1969-77, South Melbourne 1978-81 and Essendon 1981-82.

Ian McMullin played for Collingwood 1984-87, Essendon 1990-92 and Collingwood 1992-93.
 
Last edited:
FitzroyPete said:
About the same time, Phil Baker (NM 1971-75, 77-79; Geelong 1975) left North Melbourne in midseason and played half a season with Geelong.
However, Baker didn't play a senior game in 1976, so I'm not sure if he was languishing in the Cats' reserves or had temporarily left the VFL.
Click to expand...
From the 1976 Rd. 1 Football Record:
MISSING FROM 1975 LISTS
GEELONG
The Cats lost two senior players in Stevens and Hunt to St Kilda, but have been drastic in dropping ex-North Melbourne high mark taker Phil Baker (66 VFL games and 61 goals) to the Supplementary list.
==========================================
His name does appear a few times in the Record in 1976 so he was still at the club and playing Reserves. Fair to say he had a better year in 1977 :mad::thumbsdown:

# Phil Baker's Wikipedia entry is incorrect, as it shows him having played 9 games for Geelong in 1976 (when it should be 1975). If someone could change that it would be a good thing!
 
Are the 157 matches Hawthorn and Richmond have played against each other the most for two clubs before meeting in a final for the first time?
 
Underarm said:
If you assume each game is a 50/50, the odds of winning 3 in a row is:
Click to expand...
Still not sure how to work out the odds for 3rd to 6th under the original McIntyre Final 8 system (1993-99) where you had 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5.
 

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worbod said:
Are the 157 matches Hawthorn and Richmond have played against each other the most for two clubs before meeting in a final for the first time?
Click to expand...
Probably. It should get overtaken though by the Bulldogs, and WB v FI would probably be 160+ by now if Fitzroy were still around.

Teams that have yet to play finals:

157 games - Richmond v Hawthorn
154 - Western Bulldogs v Richmond (did play each other in the 1906 VFA 2nd Semi Final)
146 - Western Bulldogs v Carlton
126 - Western Bulldogs v Fitzroy

Although until today I never knew they had actually played a final, well, kind of:
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/1977-gf-replay-curtain-raiser-hawthorn-v-richmond.1186052/
 
Last edited:
red+black said:
Still not sure how to work out the odds for 3rd to 6th under the original McIntyre Final 8 system (1993-99) where you had 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5.
Click to expand...
Yeah, its significantly more complex, and one of the reasons why it was changed.

So once again assuming every game is 50/50:

3rd can be premiers by

a) 1st and 2nd win week 1(25% chance); 3rd wins or loses week 1(100% chance); wins week 2(50%); Wins PF (50%); wins Grand Final (50%)
= .25*1*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.03125 OR 3.125%
b)1 of 1st and 2nd wins,other loses (50%); 3rd wins week 1(50%); Wins PF(50%); Wins GF(50%)
=0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.0625 OR 6.25%
c)1 of 1st and 2nd wins(50%); 3rd loses week 1(50%); Wins week 2(50%); Wins PF(50%); Wins GF(50%)
=0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.03125 OR 3.125%
d) 1st and 2nd lose(0.25); 3rd wins(50%); 3rd wins PF(50%); wins GF(50%)
=0.25*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.03125 OR 3.125%

Add them together and you get 15.625%

4th can be premiers by
a)1st and 2nd win week 1(25% chance); 4th wins or loses week 1(100% chance); wins week 2(50%); Wins PF (50%); wins Grand Final (50%)
= .25*1*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.03125 OR 3.125%
b)1 of 1st and 2nd wins(50%); 3rd wins(50%); 4th wins or loses week 1(100%); wins week 2(50%); wins PF (50%); wins GF(50%)
=0.5*0.5*1*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.03125 OR 3.125%
c)1 of 1st and 2nd wins(50%); 3rd loses(50%); 4th wins(50%); wins PF (50%); wins GF(50%)
=0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.03125 OR 3.125%
d) 1st and 2nd lose (25%); 4th wins(50%); 4th wins PF(50%); 4th wins GF (50%)
=.25*1*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.03125 OR 3.125%

Add them together you get 12.5%

5th can be premiers by:
a) at least 2 of1st,2nd and 3rd win (50%); 5th wins or loses (100%); 5th wins week 2; wins PF; wins GF
= 0.5*1*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.0625 OR 6.25%
b) at least 2 of 1st, 2nd and 3rd lose (50%); 5th wins (50%); wins PF (50%); wins GF (50%)
=0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5 =0.0.0625 OR 6.25%
Add them together you get 0.125 OR 12.5%

6th can be premiers by:
a) 1st and 2nd winning(25%); 6th winning or losing week 1(100%); winning week 2(50%); winning PF(50%); Winning GF(50%)
=0.25*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.03125 OR 3.125%
b)1st and 2nd losing (25%) 6th winning (50%);winning PF(50%); Winning GF(50%)
=0.25*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.03125 OR 3.125%
c) 1 of 1st and 2nd losing(50%); 6th winning(50%); 6th winning week 2(50%); Winning PF(50%); Winning GF(50%)
= 0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.003125 OR 3.125%

add them together you get 9.375%

1st and 2nd(18.75%); 7th and 8th(6.25%) remain the same.
 
Was Brad Ebert the last 17 year old to debut?

Are there many players currently playing who debuted at 17?
 
Pricey97 said:
Was Brad Ebert the last 17 year old to debut?

Are there many players currently playing who debuted at 17?
Click to expand...
Yes, Ebert was the last 17 year old to debut.

Gary Ablett 2002 Rd. 1
Luke Hodge 2002 Rd. 5
Brendon Goddard 2003 Rd. 4
Brett Deledio 2005 Rd. 1
Brad Ebert 2008 Rd. 2
 
What are some of the longest game streaks in between two teams playing finals? For example, from 1945 to 2007 Collingwood and South/Sydney played 105 matches against each other in between meeting in another final. I'm sure there would be longer streaks than this.
 

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