Opinion Stephen Silvagni

[jd2010]

And I'm saying, if they had the record he has, we absolutely would.

It's his record, not his name, which should determine how we react on his dismissal. There are a good deal of people on here reacting because he's SOS, but I rather think you're doing a few people a disservice by suggesting that they're only reacting because of that.

His record has been good getting us high end picks and then executing with them. His late pick, rookie & trading record hasn't been fantastic. And that's the space we will be playing in more nowadays

 

[Blue__Balls]

For those having a go at SOS give us your top 22 and you will see that for the first time in the past 2 decades we have some depth...I say some because we are not there yet.

Papley becomes crucial next year...so let’s see if we screw that up.

In contrast tell me what liddle has done that impresses you so much.

I am still hopeful because we have Judd, Diesel and Russell at the club and our list seems good.

Teague I am still waiting to see whether the players responded to his coaching style or the departure of bolts.

The sacking of SOS because of the conflict of interest is laughable...it is written in the statement further highlighting that our hierarchy believe that it is not his list management that was the problem.

SOS will always be a legend at the club to the vast majority of baggers so be respectful.

Confused by this post.

SOS is great cause he built a good list - cool.
Liddle hasn't done anything to impress - memberships are at a record high, though I suppose you can chalk that up to the list if you really try?
Hopeful because we have Judd - how does this stack up against your criticism of Liddle? What exactly has Judd done to make you go "Everything's OK, he's here"?

I don't think anyone is really having a go at SOS. More being realistic in an assumption that if SOS was doing everything perfectly, then there's no way someone would be able to manage him out of the club. Guaranteed, there are multiple parties who could have handled themselves better, but it seems Liddle is the only one being singled out as the arch-villain of the story, and those doing so seem unreasonably set in their belief that he's either an undercover enemy agent, or a self-serving political ladder climber, or incompetent - when there are completely reasonable alternatives which share "blame" for the situation among otherwise saintly parties.

 

[GoBlues!]

Absolutely correct.
This conflict of interest issue is real but not the main reason he is leaving.
SOS & Liddle can't stand each other and the Board has backed Liddle.
However, as CEO, Liddle should have been able to manage his people ( including SOS ) better.
As has been said, Liddle had better not trip up anywhere.....

Maybe some fault with SOS also, if he wasn’t able to work things out with Liddle. We don’t really know all the facts, who knows maybe the board think Liddle tried his best to work things out but SOS was still unhappy.

 

[Sector 7G]

Confused by this post.

SOS is great cause he built a good list - cool.
Liddle hasn't done anything to impress - memberships are at a record high, though I suppose you can chalk that up to the list if you really try?
Hopeful because we have Judd - how does this stack up against your criticism of Liddle? What exactly has Judd done to make you go "Everything's OK, he's here"?

I don't think anyone is really having a go at SOS. More being realistic in an assumption that if SOS was doing everything perfectly, then there's no way someone would be able to manage him out of the club. Guaranteed, there are multiple parties who could have handled themselves better, but it seems Liddle is the only one being singled out as the arch-villain of the story, and those doing so seem unreasonably set in their belief that he's either an undercover enemy agent, or a self-serving political ladder climber, or incompetent - when there are completely reasonable alternatives which share "blame" for the situation among otherwise saintly parties.

Memberships are at record highs because they are renewing membership with Credit cards on file without authorization. Wasn't impressed as due to funding holidays I don't want the 3 Membership I buy on my Credit Card till Feb. Luckily my credit card had expired and it didn't go through.

 

[Own The Future]

Off-topic, but we may have moved on from Papley by this time next year.

I agree with you - and it may not even be our choice.
I was over the moon when Papley nominated us as I felt he ticked so many boxes. He was the right age, played the right position, and had the right amount of mongrel. We were always in an awkward position with him being contracted for so long, but I was hopeful it’d get done. We all know how it ended up.
A year is a long time. I am not the first to bring up the fact that Jack Martin himself nominated * last year, and when that deal wasn’t done due to the pursuit of Shiel there’s a chance * thought they’d be in the box seat 12 months later. Thankfully for us, he changed his mind and nominated us.
Papley seems hellbent on getting back to Victoria, I don’t think he is desperate to play for Carlton. If he asks for a trade again, I doubt he’ll even nominate a club - my prediction is he’ll be open to getting back to anywhere in Melbourne.
I hope he ends up in Navy as I think he’s an excellent player. But there are a lot of planets that will need to align for that to happen.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Memberships are at record highs because they are renewing membership with Credit cards on file without authorization. Wasn't impressed as due to funding holidays I don't want the 3 Membership I buy on my Credit Card till Feb. Luckily my credit card had expired and it didn't go through.

Record membership numbers in 2019, Sec. And plenty here were singing his praises. Now the wheel has turned and the narrative is that anyone could have given out free upgrades, therefore Liddle hasn't done anything special.

Amazing how changeable people can be.

As I've said earlier, I'm going to give the club time to show me that things are going to be alright. 12 months. Give me a strong performance on field, no (or minimal, because there'll be something, for sure) off-field discretions, and another improvement on the list at the end of 2020. If that happens, I'll be satisfied we're still trending upwards and the ones who matter (the players and coaches) are unified and focused.

 

[Sin City]

I'm saying if Carlton sacked another list manager whose name wasn't Silvagni because of a conflict of interest we wouldn't care

Wow, so there are people that actually believe what was in that press release by the club.

I have some beautiful beachfront property in sunny Bothwell you might be interested in.

 

[Sector 7G]

Record membership numbers in 2019, Sec. And plenty here were singing his praises. Now the wheel has turned and the narrative is that anyone could have given out free upgrades, therefore Liddle hasn't done anything special.

Amazing how changeable people can be.

As I've said earlier, I'm going to give the club time to show me that things are going to be alright. 12 months. Give me a strong performance on field, no (or minimal, because there'll be something, for sure) off-field discretions, and another improvement on the list at the end of 2020. If that happens, I'll be satisfied we're still trending upwards and the ones who matter (the players and coaches) are unified and focused.

Point is that they have pulled memberships forward using questionable tactics.

 

[AlecDuncan]

We can argue for or against the notion of transparency in the workplace until our faces are blue, but more often than not businesses do not like disclosing their internal workings to the public. I don't like it, but if that's their takeaway I cannot begrudge them for it.

Except we're the shareholders. Literally once if not now.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Point is that they have pulled memberships forward using questionable tactics.

That's not my point at all - my point is that Liddle has come on board and we've instantly hit record membership numbers, coming off a wooden spoon and into a 16th finish.

And the context of that point is that I find it passing strange to downplay Liddle's credentials because he "hasn't done anything yet" but laud Judd as an inspiring custodian of the club.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Regarding the statement, the best option in this situation is always to spin it as the person's own choice. SOS is satisfied with the work he's done, he feels it's time for his next challenge, he will always love the club, etc. The only reason I can imagine for them not going with that here is because SOS flat out refused.

So now the club has to go to plan B: it's the club's choice, not SOS's, but for a reason that doesn't cast a shadow over the work SOS has done, diminish SOS personally, or reveal internal ructions at the club. And so they land on the conflict of interest -- it's a real thing even if it's not the whole story, it's not really anybody's fault, it's just the situation. Spend some time emphasising the difficulty of parting ways, talk a bit about lasting goodwill (even if it's not entirely true), and just about all the boxes are ticked. A quote from SOS would have helped immensely, but clearly he's not playing ball (not a criticism, just an observation) so this is the best they can do.

I don't particularly like it either, but that's modern media management for you.

Bingo


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gethelred]

Except we're the shareholders. Literally once if not now.

Don't make me laugh.

We're entitled to know what the club tells us, or what we're willing to look into; we and shareholders are not intended to be privy to the inner workings of the businesses they are invested in. They know a certain amount, but not all; this is for a wide variety of reasons. And that is only so long as the comparison between being a paid member and a shareholder holds true.

I despise comparisons between business and sports. Ask JustaBattler what he'd do if people within his businesses behaved as this lot have or do; if I owned/ran a business and people behaved like this, I'd be looking for the fastest route to extracting my money from the joint and getting away pronto.

 

[Own The Future]

Memberships are at record highs because they are renewing membership with Credit cards on file without authorization. Wasn't impressed as due to funding holidays I don't want the 3 Membership I buy on my Credit Card till Feb. Luckily my credit card had expired and it didn't go through.

In fairness, auto-renewal is a fairly common method in memberships. I am a member, and I can honestly say that I received 2 separate letters telling me that unless I opted out, my membership would roll over into 2020 at the same level as this year. This would mean an increase in cost due to the free upgrade in 2019 - if I wanted to revert back to the lower level I just had to inform the club. The second letter detailed the date the payment would come out of the same account I used last time.
I know everyone wants to bash Liddle at the moment - and therefore the membership process - but in this case the club was 100% transparent.

 

[Rosscoe]

A lot can change between now and then, but I am buoyed by his manager's response after the trade didn't materialise. We couldn't have done much more than we did.

It could have happened, but I don't recall such a response from Martin's manager last year regarding Essendon.

It may happen, it may not, but I think we're a very good chance of landing Papley at the end of 2020.

for me it is a priority...I am ok if he stays at the swans but would be gutted if he chose another Melbourne club after SOS put our list strategy on hold to try and get him. I am hopeful though.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Don't make me laugh.

We're entitled to know what the club tells us, or what we're willing to look into; we and shareholders are not intended to be privy to the inner workings of the businesses they are invested in. They know a certain amount, but not all; this is for a wide variety of reasons. And that is only so long as the comparison between being a paid member and a shareholder holds true.

Maybe you weren't at the 2002 EGM.

 

[Gethelred]

Maybe you weren't at the 2002 EGM.

Considering I was all of 13 at the time, no, I wasn't.

 

[Jeremias]

Considering I was all of 13 at the time, no, I wasn't.

Wait, we’re the same age?

I thought you were at least 50...

 

[jd2010]

Wow, so there are people that actually believe what was in that press release by the club.

I have some beautiful beachfront property in sunny Bothwell you might be interested in.

Not buying into the conflict being the only reason he was let go.

But I'm also not blinded by footballing achievements of the 90s to tell me that SOS is the perfect list manager. He has served his purpose. Thanks for the work you've done but we need someone else now

 

[WFGodot]

I'm sad to see SOS leave and I'd be more forgiving of the reasoning - conflict of interest - if Jack had not been on the list for 4 years and Ben for 1. A conflict of interest didn't just pop up overnight.
In the interests of the club I hope this becomes a non-issue in the new year as it is potentially distracting and counter-productive.
We can all express opinions on forums, and we will, but my hope is they are primarily football related rather than political.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'm sad to see SOS leave and I'd be more forgiving of the reasoning - conflict of interest - if Jack had not been on the list for 4 years and Ben for 1. A conflict of interest didn't just pop up overnight.
In the interests of the club I hope this becomes a non-issue in the new year as it is potentially distracting and counter-productive.
We can all express opinions on forums, and we will, but my hope is they are primarily football related rather than political.

We were paying stupid money to terrible players just to meet the cap the last few years. If we're now reaching a point where we need to spend wisely (ie. because we have a bunch of talented young players who will be expecting significant pay rises soon) then there is greater potential for conflicting interests now than there was before.

And as has been repeated ad nauseum, it's not just about SOS favoring his kids. It's about how the staff he says "No worries, you handle it" to feel about being responsible for negotiating the contracts of their boss's kids, and about how the competition for spots is increasing and it's better for both the club and Jack/Ben that their selection only ever be seen as earned, not gifted.

 

[Rosscoe]

Confused by this post.

SOS is great cause he built a good list - cool.
Liddle hasn't done anything to impress - memberships are at a record high, though I suppose you can chalk that up to the list if you really try?
Hopeful because we have Judd - how does this stack up against your criticism of Liddle? What exactly has Judd done to make you go "Everything's OK, he's here"?

I don't think anyone is really having a go at SOS. More being realistic in an assumption that if SOS was doing everything perfectly, then there's no way someone would be able to manage him out of the club. Guaranteed, there are multiple parties who could have handled themselves better, but it seems Liddle is the only one being singled out as the arch-villain of the story, and those doing so seem unreasonably set in their belief that he's either an undercover enemy agent, or a self-serving political ladder climber, or incompetent - when there are completely reasonable alternatives which share "blame" for the situation among otherwise saintly parties.

I like judds football brain...I learned from his insight on footy classified whenever I was lucky enough to know when and where it was on.

Claims that Liddle is responsible for the member numbers is a bit of a stretch for me; in saying that I think the upgrades and direct debits this year were good ideas. I believe the club as a whole is a reflection of our member numbers; if we hadn’t of had a good back half of last year I doubt Cain could of done much about it.

Liddle is still unproven to me along with Teague, Lloyd and Agresta; I am not saying they should be sacked! I am saying that it takes more than a couple of moves in a short period of time before they win my respect. I think Liddle has charmed a lot of baggers but the substance remains to be seen and I am yet to see it at his previous club or ours as of yet for him to be throwing his weight around. The people that had success with Liddle at Richmond are still excelling without him; how much input he had can only be judged by what he brings to us now that he has solidified his position.

I don’t idolize SOS; he proved himself to me with his work at previous clubs and the obvious work done at Carlton. He does not take kindly to deviating from a plan and the overrulings left him with no other decision but to leave.

More importantly for me though is that the current state of affairs make me question the clubs off field culture.

 

[footyfan1978]

Seems as though Jack has deleted some tweets / likes.

Mum , Rita and Serg probably told him to, just to lessen media bullshit trying to involve him.

 

[Brackets]

I find it funny Jack is doubling down here. Really showing his hot-headed, family-first Italian nature.

Whoever wrote and approved that press release is dead set incompetent. There are holes in it everywhere lol.

I don't find it funny, I find it an example of the clear conflict of interest that some are trying to downplay.

 

[Own The Future]

for me it is a priority...I am ok if he stays at the swans but would be gutted if he chose another Melbourne club after SOS put our list strategy on hold to try and get him. I am hopeful though.

I would prioritise getting Papley (and perhaps a best 22 ruckman to replace Kreuz) to the club, but I doubt Papley would lose any sleep at all if he ended up at another club - regardless of our attempts to get him here a month or so ago. The comments from
his manager praising our efforts gives me some hope they’ll nominate us again, but I don’t feel there is any firm commitment on their part to only get to Carlton.

 

[Opine]

I think you're reading too much into a press release.

We can't take potshots at SOS, the flagging of the conflict is an issue without connotation of fault, because it's not something that can be avoided. The intelligent observer will see this for what it is, a smokescreen to allow us to possess a perfectly valid reason for this bullshit without badmouthing him with the actual reasons in public, or allowing what goes on inside the club to see the light of day.

We can argue for or against the notion of transparency in the workplace until our faces are blue, but more often than not businesses do not like disclosing their internal workings to the public. I don't like it, but if that's their takeaway I cannot begrudge them for it.

Well, clearly, I’ve been too emotionally invested in the club of late. I’ll be sure to temper my connection in future.