Stiffy Last Chance ????

[Jetwa5h]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/100150/default.aspx

If this was ever delisted due to some minor misdemeanors fair dinkum I think you might find me on top the northern stand with a high powered rifle (you know what I mean). Having spoken to him he is a very quiet soft spoken polite man who has made some errors but none have been worthy of delisting surely.

 

[SydCrow]

nothing in there about delisting?

hopefully he gets as many last chances as Didak

 

[TDRP]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/100150/default.aspx

If this was ever delisted due to some minor misdemeanors fair dinkum I think you might find me on top the northern stand with a high powered rifle (you know what I mean). Having spoken to him he is a very quiet soft spoken polite man who has made some errors but none have been worthy of delisting surely.

Bit of a beat up I think... Stiffy usually needs a kick up the ass every 18-24 months.

He's come along fairly well with his consistency of performance. Is in out top 3-4 players and all things considered is one of our more mature players.

At the end of the day no one is above the team... so if he flaunts more training sessions without explanation he'll be in a bit of trouble. Doubt he'd be delisted... but his suspension would be a fair more sizable than 1 week.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

What an amazing article. Perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong with our club and clearly outlines exactly why we have faltered this season. Prioritising ridiculous crap that doesn't matter, leadership groups out of control and a coach who has lost the plot. The headline isn't a media beat up at all. It is exactly how Johncock sees his situation.

The 27-year-old didn’t think his actions in May this year warranted a one-week ban from AFL selection, but said he had lost respect from his teammates as a result of the incident.

“There’s only so much a club will take, so I’m definitely on my last chance,” Johncock said on Wednesday.

“I thought I made I inroads into [regaining] that [respect], but the incident this year definitely put a dent in that. I’ve had a few of those [misdemeanours] over my career and this year… I probably made a silly decision.

Lost respect of his team mates? Oh my freaking gawd. What the **** are these blokes on?

Play like a champion but miss a recovery session on a Sunday = no respect
Train brilliantly but play like absolute garbage and fall to 0 and 6 = respect

The rebounding defender has earned praise for his on-field leadership, but says he’s unlikely to put his hand up for an official leadership role when skipper Simon Goodwin and veteran Brett Burton retire at the end of the season.

“I see everyone as being leaders in their own way,” he said.

“It’s taken me a while to adjust to the program and to speak up in meetings. My leadership comes out on the playing field and that’s where I let my actions do the talking.”

**** me. So our leadership program manages to weed out players like Johncock who inspire and lead through their actions during the only two hours of the week that counts.

We're a joke.

 

[crowman86]

West Coke were a joke. I think you need to relax a little bit Carl.

 

[Big Sledge #32]

What an amazing article. Perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong with our club and clearly outlines exactly why we have faltered this season. Prioritising ridiculous crap that doesn't matter, leadership groups out of control and a coach who has lost the plot. The headline isn't a media beat up at all. It is exactly how Johncock sees his situation.


Lost respect of his team mates? Oh my freaking gawd. What the **** are these blokes on?

Play like a champion but miss a recovery session on a Sunday = no respect
Train brilliantly but play like absolute garbage and fall to 0 and 6 = respect


**** me. So our leadership program manages to weed out players like Johncock who inspire and lead through their actions during the only two hours of the week that counts.

We're a joke.

The problem is that the players which have shown the best on field leadership have messed up in the past (Johncock & Thompson) and the ones who fit the mold off the field (VB mainly) just don't have enough influence on the field to be captain. So it is an interesting position for our club to be in. I think the club will go the safe route and name Rutten captain for 2011 and just hope he doesn't go too far backwards over the next 3 years.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

West Coke were a joke. I think you need to relax a little bit Carl.

You're probably right

Just one bad year.
Just one bad year.
Just one bad year.
Just one bad year.
Just one bad year.
Just one bad year.

 

[-CG-]

The problem is that the players which have shown the best on field leadership have messed up in the past (Johncock & Thompson) and the ones who fit the mold off the field (VB mainly) just don't have enough influence on the field to be captain. So it is an interesting position for our club to be in. I think the club will go the safe route and name Rutten captain for 2011 and just hope he doesn't go too far backwards over the next 3 years.

Simon Goodwin hardly has a clean record after his gambling problem a few years back.

 

[cmndstab]

Don't know about that Carl, I'd say not turning up to your rehab when you're a professional athlete would be a fair reason for your teammates to lose respect for you. It's a very important thing to get right. I would have thought it would be pretty hard to paint as a picture of a leadership group out of control. Not sure how Craig having lost the plot even comes into it.


On the other hand, Johncock would have pretty fair cause at the moment to look at a few of his teammates with less regard than he did at the end of last year. As much as I'm an advocate for treating directly avoidable misdemeanours with much more contempt than issues such as poor form, I would hope the players aren't simply writing it off altogether. We often hear about "credits in the bank", hopefully the likes of Thompson, Douglas, Reilly, Rutten, and yes, Johncock have earnt some with their consistently good form this year.


Good to hear he got around Jaensch and helped him out a bit. I guess that's the club's old line about "everyone is a leader" in action. As for Johncock himself being "on his last chance", I doubt it. He'd get less regard than players with a cleaner record if he ****ed up badly, but for another minor misdemeanour, he'll get another token suspension and will be back before we know it.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Simon Goodwin hardly has a clean record after his gambling problem a few years back.

And Ricciuto beats up opposition players in pubs.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Don't know about that Carl, I'd say not turning up to your rehab when you're a professional athlete would be a fair reason for your teammates to lose respect for you.

You cannot be serious. So one of your workmates takes a sicky and you lose respect for them. Oh FFS.

Is it possible for anyone to be that fickle and self righteous?

If thats true then Stiffy's team mates need to HTFU. The most mentally week, soft and immature playing group in the history of the club.

 

[jo172]

And Ricciuto beats up opposition players in pubs.

Only the ***** though.

 

[sydney_crow]

Carl please report immediately to the Leading Teams education centre, grab a cup of Koolaid and prepare for your reprogramming. You'll learn to love Leading Teams with some gentle persuasion.

 

[King Elvis]

What an amazing article. Perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong with our club and clearly outlines exactly why we have faltered this season. Prioritising ridiculous crap that doesn't matter, leadership groups out of control and a coach who has lost the plot. The headline isn't a media beat up at all. It is exactly how Johncock sees his situation.


Lost respect of his team mates? Oh my freaking gawd. What the **** are these blokes on?

Play like a champion but miss a recovery session on a Sunday = no respect
Train brilliantly but play like absolute garbage and fall to 0 and 6 = respect


**** me. So our leadership program manages to weed out players like Johncock who inspire and lead through their actions during the only two hours of the week that counts.

We're a joke.

I tend to agree.

 

[Slippery Pete]

If thats true then Stiffy's team mates need to HTFU. The most mentally week, soft and immature playing group in the history of the club.

They are doing it under sufferance, Wood Duck. No group of young men could possibly think like that, if you scratch the surface.

Dont blame the players - blame the "leadership program" in place that is forcing them to act this way.

Shades of Jason Akermanis being sat out the front and told by a bunch of 22 year olds that he should work in a homeless shelter to get his life back on track. Would anybody ever say that outside the confines of a "leadership" meeting?

It's a wank.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Don't know about that Carl, I'd say not turning up to your rehab when you're a professional athlete would be a fair reason for your teammates to lose respect for you. It's a very important thing to get right. I would have thought it would be pretty hard to paint as a picture of a leadership group out of control. Not sure how Craig having lost the plot even comes into it.

I just think they're losing sight if why they're actually there.

The purpose of recovery is to recover. Johncock was injured, had relatively quick recovery times from his thumb and shoulder, came back and played well pretty much straight away and has had what many consider to be a career best year. So that means his recovery worked. What he did was spot on. He's a senior player, he knows what he needs to do to perform well and he did it.

Likewise the purpose of training isn't to train well. It is to help you play better on the weekend.

If someone doesn't miss a beat at training and is one of the standouts on the track but doesn't perform well or improve in games, then what they are doing is wrong. If someone is slack at training, misses a few sessions but does perform well and improve, then what they are doing is right.

We measure more on process than we do on performance.

Clubs are wary of players like Johncock because they lack a bit of discipline, don't follow the rules, come back from Christmas break with a pot belly and basically don't follow the letter of the law as set out by the coaches. And then they have the temerity to play well!

Basically they are snubbing their noses at things the coaches believe are crucial ingredients to producing a high level of output. They are actively proving the coaches wrong. This causes other players to question what the club stands for. Are their methods right? Why are we bothering with all these sessions if they don't actually impact on performance?

Johncock is on the outer partly because he undermines the coaches and the leadership group.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Basically they are snubbing their noses at things the coaches believe are crucial ingredients to producing a high level of output. They are actively proving the coaches wrong. This causes other players to question what the club stands for. Are their methods right? Why are we bothering with all these sessions if they don't actually impact on performance?

Johncock is on the outer partly because he undermines the coaches and the leadership group.

Exactly.

Early morning recovery sessions the day after a game are an absolute wank, too. Ive never heard any player speak with anything other than complete disdain for them.

The best recovery is sleep, not getting the players out of bed at 7am to wade in sub-zero waters.

 

[marvin]

Good to hear he got around Jaensch and helped him out a bit. I guess that's the club's old line about "everyone is a leader" in action.

I thought that was an interesting bit. It's pretty clear that the "Leading Teams" philosophy works well for some people in some circumstances - but it's not for all people. There was a bit in the mX freebie newspaper the other night about it where they canvassed a range of players and coaches about their opinions, and they ranged from borderline scathing to evangelical fervour. The ones who were critical (such as Mick Malthouse) were particularly concerned about how it works on the introverted.

Anyone who's ever run a staff meeting knows that if you have a discussion section, there are some voices you will hear (a lot), some you might hear from, and some who would rather fill the whole in front of Plugger than voice an opinion to the group. That last cohort though can be quite often the ones who buttonhole you in the corridor afterwards.

I've only met Stiffy once - and he struck me as on the introverted side. If that's the case, for him to struggle with the "Leading Teams" thing is unsurprising. For him to take Jaensch aside for a quite beverage and a chat, on the other hand, is brilliant, and IMHO far more effective that working through the approved stop-keep-start process.

 

[cmndstab]

You cannot be serious. So one of your workmates takes a sicky and you lose respect for them. Oh FFS.

Is it possible for anyone to be that fickle and self righteous?

If thats true then Stiffy's team mates need to HTFU. The most mentally week, soft and immature playing group in the history of the club.

My workplace is not an elite sporting environment, nor is it an all-inclusive team. The fact of the matter is, when a player makes a choice not to prepare himself adequately for the match on the weekend, it is a direct slap in the face of all his teammates. Mentally weak, soft, and immature would be turning a blind eye to it. As a team, they will all be weaker on the weekend because of it. If one of my workmates chuck a sicky, it doesn't affect me in any direct sense whatsoever.

If worked on a project where my workmates' performances directly impacted my ability to do my job, you're damn right I'd lose respect for them if they chucked a sicky. If you're not willing to do your part for a team, you shouldn't be a part of a team.

I just think they're losing sight if why they're actually there.

The purpose of recovery is to recover. Johncock was injured, had relatively quick recovery times from his thumb and shoulder, came back and played well pretty much straight away and has had what many consider to be a career best year. So that means his recovery worked. What he did was spot on. He's a senior player, he knows what he needs to do to perform well and he did it.

...

Frankly, and with no disrespect meant to Johncock, I think the recovery staff would have a better idea than Graham Johncock does on the best way to recover. Saying that we should just let players do whatever they think is best without any regard for the processes in place is a nice, utopian sounding idea, but completely untenable in practice. Why not simply get rid of coaches altogether and just let the players train as they want and run around the ground on the weekend as they see fit? The players are there to play. The recovery staff are there to aid recovery. You don't see the recovery staff coming on to the ground on the weekend and telling Johncock how to kick the ball. Besides, if the recovery staff allow Johncock to perform his recovery as he sees fit and it doesn't work out right, who do you think cops it in the neck at the end?

This "the ends justify the means" attitude that it's alright for a player to do his own thing and disregard club processes as long as he turns out to be a good player is little more one-depth short-sightedness. Yes, that player may turn out alright (though there is no guarantee they wouldn't turn out better if they had gone along with the processes in place), but the effect it has on the next person in the group is not taken into consideration. Imagine if the army allowed soldiers to just do whatever they liked. Yeah, some of them might be able to handle it. Others would not, and as an overall unit, there would be no cohesion whatsoever. Discipline and unity are essential ingredients in any successful team. Individual brilliance on the field is a welcome part of any sporting team. Individuality in attitude and approach to team rules and discipline is not, and is only harmful to the team as a whole.


I know that after a bad year it's kind of soothing to try to paint the club's inflexibility as the root cause of our issues, but the reality is we need that rigidity now more than ever. I don't even care if the processes the club put into place make no difference whatsoever to a player's performance - to become a decent team, you need to have everyone whistling the same tune. Having your core group of performers going in all different directions is caustic to a team and will not lead to any kind of team success. It just won't.


The fact of the matter is, Johncock ****ed up. He knows it just as well as everyone else at the Crows knows it. He's not making any pretences that he's perfect, he knows he made a mistake. He's now making every attempt to make amends for it. The easiest way to earn back respect at the club is to go and train well and play some good football, and that's exactly what he's done. This should be seen as a good news story, not a vehicle to attack the club because they stick to their guns on the essential building blocks of teamwork.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

^^
The club has, for a long time, drilled into its players that a + b = c.

If we do a and b well, team success will follow. The players believed it, the coaches drove it and everyone was striving towards the same goal.

Now we have reached a worrying point where the faith has been shaken. The players no longer have faith that if they do a and b well that c will inevitably follow. They are starting to question a and b (hence the player-driven change of training times and the player-driven Edwards farewell game).

They are no longer falling in behind the leaders. After so many finals failures and then add in this season from hell you couldn't help but ask yourself whether those in charge have the plans and the ability to compete against the best teams in the competition.

Johncock broke a rule he doesn't believe in.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I think stiffy came out and said the right thing, or at the very least if he thinks that way it can only be a positive move and one that says he is thinking about his future and that he wants to do right by the club and if it takes for him to think he is on his last chance well so be it.

You dont often hear from stiffy and it is refreshing that he is up front. Should come close to the club champion award I think.

 

[cmndstab]

^^
The club has, for a long time, drilled into its players that a + b = c.

If we do a and b well, team success will follow. The players believed it, the coaches drove it and everyone was striving towards the same goal.

Now we have reached a worrying point where the faith has been shaken. The players no longer have faith that if they do a and b well that c will inevitably follow. They are starting to question a and b (hence the player-driven change of training times and the player-driven Edwards farewell game).

They are no longer falling in behind the leaders. After so many finals failures and then add in this season from hell you couldn't help but ask yourself whether those in charge have the plans and the ability to compete against the best teams in the competition.

Johncock broke a rule he doesn't believe in.

Is it that hard to believe that he just did the wrong thing, even though he knew it was the wrong thing?

We all know that going out and getting shitfaced the night before going to work is the wrong thing to do, but we still do it sometimes. None of us then turn around and blame the workplace for our mistakes though, we just cop it on the chin.

I enjoy the lateral thought in your conspiracy theories Carl, but you're starting to reach a little bit as of late.

 

[WALL-e]

So if a player believes he's not in need for Tuesdays training session he just opts out?

Stiffy's performance on the field doesn't excuse his poor judgement off it.

He know's it, and he's playing top footy making up for it, I don't see the issue.

 

[Wood_Duck]

My workplace is not an elite sporting environment, nor is it an all-inclusive team. The fact of the matter is, when a player makes a choice not to prepare himself adequately for the match on the weekend, it is a direct slap in the face of all his teammates. Mentally weak, soft, and immature would be turning a blind eye to it. As a team, they will all be weaker on the weekend because of it. If one of my workmates chuck a sicky, it doesn't affect me in any direct sense whatsoever.

If worked on a project where my workmates' performances directly impacted my ability to do my job, you're damn right I'd lose respect for them if they chucked a sicky. If you're not willing to do your part for a team, you shouldn't be a part of a team.

He missed a rehab session while injured. He wasnt preparing himself for a match at all.

I think you (and others) have completely over sensationalised the whole event.

I appreciate your somewhat idealistic view of the world Sir Stab, but we live in the real world. Not all of us are capable of living up to the disciplines of robots or trained monkeys.

 

[Wood_Duck]

So if a player believes he's not in need for Tuesdays training session he just opts out?

Stiffy's performance on the field doesn't excuse his poor judgement off it.

He know's it, and he's playing top footy making up for it, I don't see the issue.

Do you actually read the threads anymore, or just take isolated quotes out of context , throw in your 2 cents worth and run fo the hills.