* Still missing *Malaysian Airlines plane with 239 on board

[Doss]

I see the mob searching for the plane are going to give it one more shot.....looking at the spot where back in 2014 a faint signal was picked up by a chinese ship, thought it may have been from the blackbox...........well hello, you would think that would be one of the first places checked?

This would be simpler if the plane had landed softly (i.e. a controlled ditching) and then pin dropped to the ocean floor from the spot it landed.

But:

a) it likely didn't land smoothly on the ocean surface
b) even if it did, it needs to emphasised again, it likely did so in one of the most remote stretches of ocean in the world. Getting search ships there takes time, would be enormously limited by both cost and the prevailing weather conditions. Given it probably is somewhere in the vicinity of 40 degrees south or even further south, those prevailing weather conditions are going to be dominated by the Roaring Forties a good deal of the time, i.e. they will be shit
c) a 'pin drop' to the ocean floor is unlikely to even occur, due to ocean currents and waves
d) the depth of the ocean in the target area is thought to be something like 5500-6000 metres. No simple matter to detect anything that deep, let alone then being able to access it to ascertain why it happened

 

[MaddAdam]

Ok mate. Whatever you reckon. I'd love to hear your technical explanation as to how every square mile of the earth's surface is monitored 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Ummm, it is covered by US military satellites watching for nuclear missile launches.

MAD nuclear doctrine demands a second strike capability - that is even if the enemy launches a surprise full scale nuclear attack on you, you will still able to retaliate with enough power to wipe them out anyway.

The best way to do this is with submarines. Hence the US definitely and most likely also the Russian/Chinese and others are watching every square inch of the Earth's surface 24/7 as a matter of core national security.

I mean ffs, private companies are capable of this and doing it.

https://www.wired.com/2017/02/88-tiny-satellites-will-watch-time-everywhere/

Nobody had any idea where MH370 went after it left radar coverage. Despite what you may believe in your fantasy world the US govt doesn't have spy satellites orbiting over 3 million square kilometres of vast open ocean full of nothing.

Yes it does, it just has no incentive to say so.

Spy satellites are not something that can be hidden in space - if one was available that was orbiting anywhere near the SIO you can bet that the Malaysians would have known about it.

They know that if it was in the US interest the info would be forthcoming, it isn't, so its not.

 

[Catfish Alley]

So, Australia are just fronting up the cost of the search for no real purpose? An ally on our soil know exactly where it is.

 

[MaddAdam]

So, Australia are just fronting up the cost of the search for no real purpose? An ally on our soil know exactly where it is.

They won't know where it IS, they will know where it went down though.

 

[WCErevival]

They've only just implemented worldwide satellite coverage. I doubt they would have had it back when MH370 went missing. Why would the US be interested in watching that part of the ocean anyway. Its not like they can launch missiles that far.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

They've only just implemented worldwide satellite coverage. I doubt they would have had it back when MH370 went missing. Why would the US be interested in watching that part of the ocean anyway. Its not like they can launch missiles that far.

In case of nuclear attack by Antarctic penguins?

 

[MaddAdam]

They've only just implemented worldwide satellite coverage. I doubt they would have had it back when MH370 went missing. Why would the US be interested in watching that part of the ocean anyway. Its not like they can launch missiles that far.

??? - who is they?

The US has had 100 per cent global satellite coverage for decades.

Where do you think the GPS on your phone came from? Its US military tech that they had for decades before it became commercially available.

As for "missiles not being able to go that far" - there's many, many problems with this. First is that a Russian sub with ICBM capability (and despite all the Western propaganda the Russians are actually ahead in this field, and the Soviets deployed the first of these type of weapons) could launch a missle that hits Washington DC from there easily. Not only that, it would avoid US ABM facilities, meaning its somewhere the US will be looking at closely.

Also, as explained before, the US base at Diego Garcia is very much in that area. It is one of the most sensitive US military facilities there is, they have massive air bases and naval bases there. It would be a major target for an enemy, as would Pine Gap and the Northwest Cape facility in WA.

 

[MaddAdam]

In case of nuclear attack by Antarctic penguins?

Sigh, no, in case of attack by Russian or Chinese subs.

 

[Doss]

'Very much in the area' is still a fairly relative term though, MaddAdam. DG is just south of the equator (7 degrees south to be exact), and it's quite possible the plane ditched at something more like 45-50 south.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Sigh, no, in case of attack by Russian or Chinese subs.

Ok, so let's assume you're right and the Yanks had satellite coverage of the area where the plane went down. How long is the data from that coverage retained? Even 48 hours worth of worldwide data is going to be taking up a shitload of room. If they had the coverage, would it have been wiped before they even knew they had it?

 

[Nothing]

There's areas in NW Western Australia where GPS doesn't work. I'm sure there are areas in the middle of the ocean where GPS doesn't work. Further, GPS satellites do not track individual objects. They merely "bounce" information around.

 

[Procrastinator35]

So, Australia are just fronting up the cost of the search for no real purpose? An ally on our soil know exactly where it is.

Correct....It's all a farce.

They won't know where it IS, they will know where it went down though.

As in landed, not crashed.

 

[WCErevival]

GPS isn't always accurate and no there isn't constant coverage. You need multiple satellites to get fixes which doesn't always happen for various reasons. MH370s transponders were turned off so it's sort of irrelevant anyway.

Diego Garcia isn't near where the plane is predicted to have crashed. You could almost fit Australia in between the 2 points.

 

[Procrastinator35]

GPS isn't always accurate and no there isn't constant coverage. You need multiple satellites to get fixes which doesn't always happen for various reasons. MH370s transponders were turned off so it's sort of irrelevant anyway.

Diego Garcia isn't near where the plane is predicted to have crashed. You could almost fit Australia in between the 2 points.

Now why would a commercial jet-airliner have it's transponders turned off?.....hmmm.

 

[Zidane98]

Sigh, no, in case of attack by Russian or Chinese subs.

US intelligence usually has a pretty good idea of where their subs are and they ain't gonna be in the Southern Indian Ocean thousands of kilometres from anywhere. It's no secret that the US has DSP satellites to detect missile launches. These are usually tasked to conflict areas - not millions of square kilometres of empty ocean.

Also the Russians & Chinese know where all US Satellites are - they would be openly telling the US to release satellite data if they had been anywhere near the SIO.

Anyone that believes that there was anyone watching millions of square kilometres of open Indian Ocean on the day MH370 crashed there is seriously deluded.

 

[Zidane98]

??? - who is they?

The US has had 100 per cent global satellite coverage for decades.

Where do you think the GPS on your phone came from? Its US military tech that they had for decades before it became commercially available.

As for "missiles not being able to go that far" - there's many, many problems with this. First is that a Russian sub with ICBM capability (and despite all the Western propaganda the Russians are actually ahead in this field, and the Soviets deployed the first of these type of weapons) could launch a missle that hits Washington DC from there easily. Not only that, it would avoid US ABM facilities, meaning its somewhere the US will be looking at closely.

Also, as explained before, the US base at Diego Garcia is very much in that area. It is one of the most sensitive US military facilities there is, they have massive air bases and naval bases there. It would be a major target for an enemy, as would Pine Gap and the Northwest Cape facility in WA.

I'm not sure you quite understand the difference between communication coverage and military satellite coverage.

Most of the satellites are for navigation and communication purposes -- both GPS (US Military ) and GLONASS (Russian military).

Spy satellites are few and far between and can be ineffective largely because the enemy knows where they are (you can't hide anything in low earth orbit). Nobody knows for sure but my bet is most are trained on the likes of Nth Korea, the Middle East and Russia.

 

[MaddAdam]

Ok, so let's assume you're right and the Yanks had satellite coverage of the area where the plane went down. How long is the data from that coverage retained? Even 48 hours worth of worldwide data is going to be taking up a shitload of room. If they had the coverage, would it have been wiped before they even knew they had it?

There is this possibility sure, I don't know the ins and outs of it all, though I suspect they would be able to go back at some level and check.

 

[MaddAdam]

There's areas in NW Western Australia where GPS doesn't work. I'm sure there are areas in the middle of the ocean where GPS doesn't work. Further, GPS satellites do not track individual objects. They merely "bounce" information around.

Commercially available GPS yes, not military level stuff.

 

[MaddAdam]

As in landed, not crashed.

I dunno, anyone speculating on what happened to it is doing just that, speculating.

 

[MaddAdam]

GPS isn't always accurate and no there isn't constant coverage. You need multiple satellites to get fixes which doesn't always happen for various reasons. MH370s transponders were turned off so it's sort of irrelevant anyway.

Diego Garcia isn't near where the plane is predicted to have crashed. You could almost fit Australia in between the 2 points.

That "predicted" word is important but also, the US radars and otherwise on DG would be able to pick stuff up a fair way out.

Consider that its publicly available that our own JORN had do 3000km.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindalee_Operational_Radar_Network

The Yanks will have stuff on DG that's more powerful.

 

[Rob R]

That "predicted" word is important but also, the US radars and otherwise on DG would be able to pick stuff up a fair way out.

Consider that its publicly available that our own JORN had do 3000km.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindalee_Operational_Radar_Network

The Yanks will have stuff on DG that's more powerful.

You might want to check out the limitations on radars - the type of radars at DG are limited by the horizon (unless airborne which is held in reserve and most of the assets would be in high threat areas) and JORN is a doppler radar that isn't that accurate especially if you are flying parallel to the radar not towards it.

Satellite tracking for ballistic missiles is very different to looking for a plane eg. significant IR plume and significant verticle.

 

[rdhopkins2]

Apparently this ‘final report’ provides nothing new.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...t/news-story/d8868d3120e6d2f2b76a9adf506cc648

Link to official report below.
http://mh370.mot.gov.my/MH370SafetyInvestigationReport.pdf

 

[GROTTO]

 

[Zidane98]

Apparently this ‘final report’ provides nothing new.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...t/news-story/d8868d3120e6d2f2b76a9adf506cc648

Link to official report below.
http://mh370.mot.gov.my/MH370SafetyInvestigationReport.pdf

Everything that is known about the tragedy is already out there so that's not surprising.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Ummm, it is covered by US military satellites watching for nuclear missile launches.

MAD nuclear doctrine demands a second strike capability - that is even if the enemy launches a surprise full scale nuclear attack on you, you will still able to retaliate with enough power to wipe them out anyway.

The best way to do this is with submarines. Hence the US definitely and most likely also the Russian/Chinese and others are watching every square inch of the Earth's surface 24/7 as a matter of core national security.

I mean ffs, private companies are capable of this and doing it.

https://www.wired.com/2017/02/88-tiny-satellites-will-watch-time-everywhere/



Yes it does, it just has no incentive to say so.



They know that if it was in the US interest the info would be forthcoming, it isn't, so its not.

Common sense logical thinking brother.

But youre arguing with the brainwashed