Stuart Dew

[nut]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...clarksons-faith/2008/09/27/1222217592459.html

This is why the coach should still have a huge say in recruitment.

It is foolish to think that someone out side the coaches knows more than what's needed.
If Clarkson didn't have that power then they may well not be celebrating today. Dews performance in the third won them the game.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...clarksons-faith/2008/09/27/1222217592459.html

This is why the coach should still have a huge say in recruitment.

That's all very well if you've got a gun coach. We don't.
It also helps if the club's good at getting the best out of it's players. We're not.

How do you really think a player like Dew would've gone at Richmond?

 

[Equus]

He'll eat Cotchin.

 

[krustyman]

the tigers version of dew is mcmahon. The sort of player wallace favours is very different from what clarkson wants. Wallace want skinny runners while clarkson want hard strong hard bodied tough players.

 

[bigstyletiger]

the tigers version of dew is mcmahon. The sort of player wallace favours is very different from what clarkson wants. Wallace want skinny runners while clarkson want hard strong hard bodied tough players.

i'm not so sure about this. that's not to say i am 100% behind the recruitment of McMahon. One of the first things Wallace did when he came to the club was express his surprise at the conditioning of the players. He was concerned that they weren't big enough, especially in the legs. which he believes give you the strength to break tackles.

Wallace is of the school that outside players are important. In comes McMahon. Very high on disposals, especially kicks, and amongst the league leaders in kicking efficiency. He had a very good season with a couple of stinkers and finished a justified top ten in our best and fairest.

We finished 3rd in the league for contested posessions! This would suggest our players are fairly hard and as it's a young list they can only improve their strength.

Dew is a damaging player but just because we recruited J McMahon and not Dew it doesn't mean that Wallace doesn't value hardness. I think Wallace has learnt his lesson from the dogs. The only soft players on our list apart from McMahon were not recruited in Wallaces time.

 

[_RT_]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...clarksons-faith/2008/09/27/1222217592459.html

This is why the coach should still have a huge say in recruitment.

It is foolish to think that someone out side the coaches knows more than what's needed.
If Clarkson didn't have that power then they may well not be celebrating today. Dews performance in the third won them the game.

Don't be mistaken Nut, Wallace stiill has a say in recruitment, it is just he no longer will have final say.

 

[Bojangles17]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...clarksons-faith/2008/09/27/1222217592459.html

This is why the coach should still have a huge say in recruitment.

It is foolish to think that someone out side the coaches knows more than what's needed.
If Clarkson didn't have that power then they may well not be celebrating today. Dews performance in the third won them the game.

our equvalent decision to that was KK, listen it turned out ok, he may very well struggle to play another 12 games in those size 44 shorts...It's all on the day come the Big one...and he was there when it counted , something tells me he'll struggle to go the distance for too much longer

 

[nut]

our equvalent decision to that was KK, listen it turned out ok, he may very well struggle to play another 12 games in those size 44 shorts...It's all on the day come the Big one...and he was there when it counted , something tells me he'll struggle to go the distance for too much longer

who cares if he doesn't play another game...... They just won the flag..... isn't that what recruiting is all about????? to get a team capable of winning the flag...

Dew stepped up, and in a ten minute period put the hawks far enough away from the cats that it was all over. Job done ..... the recruitment of Dew as unlikely as it sounds should be considered one of the greatest recruitment decisions of all time.... all because the coach felt he could add something.... and the Hawks list manager has distanced himself away from that decision meaning if it was his choice he wouldn't have allowed it..... and thus it wouldn't of happened. Geelong go in to last qtr level and who knows what might have happened.

If, after 4 years of solid recruiting we can't trust TW to make a call here and there then get rid of him..... taking away a coaches ability to recruit what he needs underminds him and makes his job almost impossible.

Maybe we should appoint Cameron as coach if he is meant have a better Idea on recruiting........ I mean he did one hell of a job on Melbourne.

 

[nut]

Don't be mistaken Nut, Wallace stiill has a say in recruitment, it is just he no longer will have final say.

The coach has to be the most qualified person to make decisions based on what the lis needs surely.....

 

[PHX]

The coach has to be the most qualified person to make decisions based on what the lis needs surely.....

No, not if the coach wants to go for a quick fix to save his own job and maybe spike a place or two on the ladder and get a new contract.

There has to be a control factor in there.

 

[krustyman]

The coach has to be the most qualified person to make decisions based on what the lis needs surely.....

wallace has not achieved enough success to be given the a say in recruiting matters and should stick to coaching. after a few grand final appearances maybe his opinion will have more clout.

 

[davemills]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...clarksons-faith/2008/09/27/1222217592459.html

This is why the coach should still have a huge say in recruitment.

Dew is a top up player and was recruitied for one thing alone. Grand Final football. He was an exception to the normal rules and yes, coaches should be able to have input on their lists in these circumstances.

He should not have been recruitied to Richmond as we are at a different stage of development. He was able to contribute to them when it mattered. This is also why coaches should be able to be overruled in this type of recruitment, by those who have the longer term view of the club at heart.

If in two years time we have the talls in place and are poised for a premiership then top up players can be very good value. But we need to core developed first.

Sydney has used top up player style to advantage. They now however wil be forced to pay for it for the next 3-5 years as they re-develop their younger list. I think they did the right thing...it's just now it's time for them to go a differnent direction with regards to recruitment.

Nb. The big danger of adding top up players to early is you never reach the peak. They help make you good...but then you miss out on developing the core and find yourself in limbo land.

Was McMahon a top up player? I am not sure as depending on your view of him he could be a 'core' hbf for the next five years (though I don't particularly think he is of the calibre required). Polak was not a top up player, neither was Morton.

 

[nut]

wallace has not achieved enough success to be given the a say in recruiting matters and should stick to coaching. after a few grand final appearances maybe his opinion will have more clout.

So we have to loose a GF for him to beable to say " if we could get player x he may well add what wee need".

Remember it was Clarkson decision to bring with him Pelchen... so the relationship between the two and the vision they shared is what has brought them success.... not a relationship like what is being set up at tigerland now.... when a list manager over rides the coach... crazy if you ask me.

No, not if the coach wants to go for a quick fix to save his own job and maybe spike a place or two on the ladder and get a new contract.

There has to be a control factor in there.

Would you say Stuart Dew was a " quick Fix" , I would. The notion that TW is going into the Draft and trade periods to save his own job is just stupid.... If saving his job means adding to the list then I dont see a problem.... and there is nothing to suggest that the List manager wouldn' go down the same path... to "save his job".

as this article may suggest.....

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...p-polak-on-list/2008/09/23/1221935640785.html

Cameron, who was confirmed in the Tigers' senior football position yesterday only seven months after he joined the club as the list manager, said the club was well placed with young talent, which left it open to trades for mature players. He was doubtful that that would include drafting Ben Cousins.

"We have to be open-minded about trades, I wouldn't like to put us in hole and not take anyone over 25. But I think our philosophy will be to go to the draft," Cameron said. "At this stage, I think (Cousins) is probably not one for us."

Now the question should be asked.... who should have the say in who we trade for???? the coach? or Mr Craig " I built Melbourne's list" Cameron.

 

[beaver fever]

List management is a full time position and you want to hand all their responsibilities to the coach who also has a full time job to deal with. Sure the coach should have input into list management but no you are wrong if you think he knows more than the list manager on what players are needed for long-term success.

 

[NQTIGER]

No, not if the coach wants to go for a quick fix to save his own job and maybe spike a place or two on the ladder and get a new contract.

There has to be a control factor in there.

Dont agree with you phoenix.....at the end of the day the coach is the one who cops the bullett if he doesnt succeed.... in a previous life i had built a soccer squad for the world youth championships. It had taken me 5 years to get the squad to where we were ready to compete....and i stress compete with Australia and new zealand, the was a election and the president of the association lost, the new presdent pulled me aside and told me that the squad i had assembled and drilled was not the squad that would play in melbourne agains the aussies, i walked and we got flogged in melbourne thus undoing 5 years of work....as the coach terry needs to be in control of his destiny and if that means playing finals next year then so be it.

He should have the final say with input from his assistants

 

[beaver fever]

Being a football manager is totally different to being an AFL coach. Bad example to draw on.

Wallace's record at the club may hurt him, but his list management record will be his death knell. It already cost Miller his job.

 

[PHX]

Dont agree with you phoenix.....at the end of the day the coach is the one who cops the bullett if he doesnt succeed.... in a previous life i had built a soccer squad for the world youth championships. It had taken me 5 years to get the squad to where we were ready to compete....and i stress compete with Australia and new zealand, the was a election and the president of the association lost, the new presdent pulled me aside and told me that the squad i had assembled and drilled was not the squad that would play in melbourne agains the aussies, i walked and we got flogged in melbourne thus undoing 5 years of work....as the coach terry needs to be in control of his destiny and if that means playing finals next year then so be it.

He should have the final say with input from his assistants

I see what you're saying but an AFL coach should know the drill when he walks in the door that everything is not up to him and he might need to take the bullet for the team (see Peter Schwab). He cant be the decision maker in everything just to save only himself and not consider the ongoing future concern of the club and the fact we need to draft the kids IF this is what Terry wants to do.

Your soccer team is different in that you had to drill the team etc and didnt want to change your gameplan or lineup for them but they said you were going to and the structure would be different. I'm not saying starve Terry of a say, what I am saying is that the RFC is a business and he is not always going to agree on some things that the Football Manager, list manager and recruiter all have the same opinion on and as far as I'm concerned if that arrises and he finds himself opposed he has to accept that and look at it from their point of view. He cant just willy-nilly, do what he wants with the list. He can do what he wants on the training track and with the gameplan as he is the leader in that part of the organisation, like you should have been with your players, but that does not mean he gets to choose what is best for our list uncontested as far as I'm concerned. When it comes down to it, if he has an idea to improve the list, and it is for the best, he will get the support that will make it happen.

 

[tigersfan11]

Stupid Gary March.

 

[NQTIGER]

I see what you're saying but an AFL coach should know the drill when he walks in the door that everything is not up to him and he might need to take the bullet for the team (see Peter Schwab). He cant be the decision maker in everything just to save only himself and not consider the ongoing future concern of the club and the fact we need to draft the kids IF this is what Terry wants to do.

Your soccer team is different in that you had to drill the team etc and didnt want to change your gameplan or lineup for them but they said you were going to and the structure would be different. I'm not saying starve Terry of a say, what I am saying is that the RFC is a business and he is not always going to agree on some things that the Football Manager, list manager and recruiter all have the same opinion on and as far as I'm concerned if that arrises and he finds himself opposed he has to accept that and look at it from their point of view. He cant just willy-nilly, do what he wants with the list. He can do what he wants on the training track and with the gameplan as he is the leader in that part of the organisation, like you should have been with your players, but that does not mean he gets to choose what is best for our list uncontested as far as I'm concerned. When it comes down to it, if he has an idea to improve the list, and it is for the best, he will get the support that will make it happen.

The list manager, football manager and recruiters do not formulate the gamae plan, the coach and the assistants are the ones that do that and they are in the best position to know the strengths ad weakneses in his squad, as an ousider(spectator) and thats all they are (list manager, football manager and recruiters)on match days and traning they are not in the ideal position to decide what type of player the game plan requires, TW should have a major say in the playing personell and where he belives the club is heading. If that isnt the case then they have obviously employed the wrong man. The HEAD coach should say we need a ruckman. midfielder or a bloke who has swallowed a cow and its up to (list manager, football manager and recruiters) to supply these players.

Again i say he needs to be in charge of his own destiny we have puthim in the job and we should let him complete it, if he wants to recycle players its his call not garry March or anyone elses if he beleives that it will deliver finals premiership etc etc


BTW how is tottenham going?

 

[PHX]

The list manager, football manager and recruiters do not formulate the gamae plan, the coach and the assistants are the ones that do that and they are in the best position to know the strengths ad weakneses in his squad, as an ousider(spectator) and thats all they are (list manager, football manager and recruiters)on match days and traning they are not in the ideal position to decide what type of player the game plan requires, TW should have a major say in the playing personell and where he belives the club is heading. If that isnt the case then they have obviously employed the wrong man. The HEAD coach should say we need a ruckman. midfielder or a bloke who has swallowed a cow and its up to (list manager, football manager and recruiters) to supply these players.

Again i say he needs to be in charge of his own destiny we have puthim in the job and we should let him complete it, if he wants to recycle players its his call not garry March or anyone elses if he beleives that it will deliver finals premiership etc etc


BTW how is tottenham going?

Sorry, but it's absolutely someone elses call if Terry decides he wants to take a road that moves away from the strategic plan they have created to put us on the road to be a successful side of essentially drafting kids to become a successful side and move back to the region of recycling players. That leads a fragmented state that tears the club apart. He might as well GTFO if he's not willing to carry through with a strategic plan he helps formulate 4 years ago.

With that logic why dont we let Terry run the whole joint so he can live and die by the sword? He can draft the players he wants, pay the players what he wants, sort out contracts, do the delisting. Oh and maybe if he has the time after those duties, he could actually have time to attend training and deliver us a gameplan that will take us to finals football.

The Football Manager is a senior position to Terry the coach and we dont pay him big bickies to be a yes man to Terry and deliver everything to TW on a platter that he wants. He listens to Terry, speaks to other key stakeholders within RIchmondFC to get their thoughts and ideas on potential plans and then can tell Terry on the state of support in his plan or whether he should reconsider the idea as it's too much of a risky move.

Yeah so Tottenham had a shithouse time at the trade table last season because Jol wasnt allowed or consulted for input into the trades the manager made. That's not what I'm saying and you've made the perfect example of what can happen when you leave one man in control of an area with no control men around him to monitor and approve the decisions made. You are essentially suggesting we give Terry free reign like the Tottenham football manager got to do what he wants with trades. Of course the positions are swapped compared to Tottenham's situation but that example is absolutely spot on why I dont agree that Terry should have exclusive control to do what he likes with our list. Because it can go down the drain and be shown as a complete waste as quick as Tottenham's did.

 

[nut]

I see what you're saying but an AFL coach should know the drill when he walks in the door that everything is not up to him and he might need to take the bullet for the team (see Peter Schwab). He cant be the decision maker in everything just to save only himself and not consider the ongoing future concern of the club and the fact we need to draft the kids IF this is what Terry wants to do.

Your soccer team is different in that you had to drill the team etc and didnt want to change your gameplan or lineup for them but they said you were going to and the structure would be different. I'm not saying starve Terry of a say, what I am saying is that the RFC is a business and he is not always going to agree on some things that the Football Manager, list manager and recruiter all have the same opinion on and as far as I'm concerned if that arises and he finds himself opposed he has to accept that and look at it from their point of view. He cant just willy-nilly, do what he wants with the list. He can do what he wants on the training track and with the gameplan as he is the leader in that part of the organization, like you should have been with your players, but that does not mean he gets to choose what is best for our list uncontested as far as I'm concerned. When it comes down to it, if he has an idea to improve the list, and it is for the best, he will get the support that will make it happen.

I'd like to give credit to Schwab for not toping up in 2001 when they netted Hodge and the core group that won them the flag..... whilst our spud ruined our list completely.

TW has stuck with a plan from day one, our list looks balanced and we are in a position where all area's from our Midfield to defense to our forward line is improving...

TW's plan may well be to go into the draft for more mids, topping up so we have huge depth in this area. This may well be over ruled by the FM.

My view is you should have huge depth in one area, be it talls or smalls and I believe we are close to having that with our smalls. You can then trade a player from your area of strength to another club which has a players that you need. A bit like what Geelong did with Mahoney to get Ottens deal done.

TW and Miller have clearly drafted with a plan, and as the results have shown in the last half of the year the plan is working.... Why remove or change directions now????

A list managers role to me seems over inflated to me. How hard is it to sit down for a few ours and Identify what is needed???? we have had 5 weeks now since the end of the season to evaluate our list. Do we really need someone to do this 12 months of the year???

Developing a long term plan and creating a side that has youth replacing plays retiring cant be that hard.... I'd rather spend the money going to a list manager on actual player development and think the club should spend money in this area rather then giving jobs to mates, like they have done with Craig Cameron.

We could probably gain 2 more assistants with this money....

 

[beaver fever]

Nut, considering the resources football teams put into list management and talent identification, surely you must realise there is a bit more to it then 5 weeks of a year.

 

[nut]

Nut, considering the resources football teams put into list management and talent identification, surely you must realise there is a bit more to it then 5 weeks of a year.

Craig Cameron was given ample time at Melbourne and that worked a treat.

 

[beaver fever]

Craig Cameron was given ample time at Melbourne and that worked a treat.

Melbourne's record was bloody good nut. They made the finals pretty consistently. Consider the resources Melbourne had compared to those of WC/Port/Bris/Syd.

 

[nut]

Melbourne's record was bloody good nut. They made the finals pretty consistently. Consider the resources Melbourne had compared to those of WC/Port/Bris/Syd.

How was it good???? they never ticked the box, got flogged in GF by a record Margin at the time, inconsistent every other year, no thanks... could go through that sought of pain every second year.
They paid %100 of the salary cap last season to probably the worst side this decade.... and Cameron was the List Manager..... WHY is he considered the Messiah has me baffled... and we want to give this underperformed Football Manager the final say in our recruitment????? WTF.... Even if you HATE TW surely you can see this bloke DOES not have the runs on the board...
Melbourne did there fair share of topping up under cameron as well... huge contracts to Bizzell, Read??? wtf, Ben Holland, Pickett etc.... Motlop when he was done and dusted.... there's more....

Melbourne will struggle for a few years yet.... all on the back of the list manager that we have now given more power to than the bloke who has rebuilt our list to a side that is knocking on the door to consistent finals....

Like I said it's got me Baffled.