Surprise packet for 2011?

[Pat_Footy]

Having two dominant ruckmen is a bit of a waste. Especially with the new teams, talent is going to be diluted even further. I would prefer to spread the talent across the board. A mid or forward at pick #4. A bit like Brisbane having 2 full forwards on big money - rest of the team is shit.

 

[Eagles 4 Mine]

I will be happy for anyone to step up and surprise me but I would just love to see us play as a hard tackling team with good clean skills.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

1) I have said for some time that Butler is wasted as a BP

Possibly - but the counter argument I have is that his body clearly can't cope being further up the ground

 

[BOND 007]

Possibly - but the counter argument I have is that his body clearly can't cope being further up the ground

Whilst I believe Butler is a good footballer - he simply cannot be relied upon as injury affects his seasons. however as he gets a little older perhaps his body has setteled down enough to handle the midfield role he is so good at.

To me Waters is a better option down back as WC plan for the future - the question is then where to play Butler. To me he is WC's best wingman right now (not in 2 yrs but right now) and thats his position. If he cannot play there then he has no spot in the team.

 

[Juddernaut33]

ebert i think will be the best of our young players, just finds it and i think he will improve in using the footy. Nicnats the one though

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Masten....he has to do it, or we should look to trade him

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Whilst I believe Butler is a good footballer - he simply cannot be relied upon as injury affects his seasons. however as he gets a little older perhaps his body has setteled down enough to handle the midfield role he is so good at.

To me Waters is a better option down back as WC plan for the future - the question is then where to play Butler. To me he is WC's best wingman right now (not in 2 yrs but right now) and thats his position. If he cannot play there then he has no spot in the team.

I think he's on par with Waters, he's as good defensivly and will put his body on the line. He's also a superior kick and decision maker than Waters.

 

[BOND 007]

I think he's on par with Waters, he's as good defensivly and will put his body on the line. He's also a superior kick and decision maker than Waters.

There is no doubt he is a superior footballer but I believe WC need the mongrel that Watters offers down back, more than the superior skills that Butler offers in the same position (BP)

 

[BOND 007]

No second ruck option? That's why I picked Gorringe in the pick 4 poll. Who would you have in your round 1 2011 team?

Thought about this issue before I posted - but given the increasing pace of the game and the continued development of Nait (hopefully) then having a 2nd ruck is almost a waste unless they can cover the ground like he does.

Marlin - I have a good friend within WC's recruiting dept and I would be extremely surprised (read that as amazed) if they read out Gorringe's name. It is apparent that he is accutely aware of the importance Worsfold's places in midfield rotations. Whilst my mate certainly doesnt discuss names/strategies at this time of the year I can advise that

1) Despite public utterances, WC are aware privately they have holes that cannot be filled in this draft alone unless miracles occur
2) That next years draft contains some exciting names and WC believe they are likely to be in a "position" (once again only privately stated) having a pick in the single digits.

In my mind WC have come down to 2 - Heppell or Gaff and my guess is they are leaning towards the latter.

Note - in my team I selected Brown at FB. I actually believe this may be a watershed year for Brown and if there is no real improvement I believe there is a good chance he wont be wearing blue and gold in 2012

 

[Marlin01]

1) Despite public utterances, WC are aware privately they have holes that cannot be filled in this draft alone unless miracles occur

That doesn't sound too promising. If we still have substantial holes in our team now, it's going to mean several more years down the bottom.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Whilst I believe Butler is a good footballer - he simply cannot be relied upon as injury affects his seasons. however as he gets a little older perhaps his body has setteled down enough to handle the midfield role he is so good at.

To me Waters is a better option down back as WC plan for the future - the question is then where to play Butler. To me he is WC's best wingman right now (not in 2 yrs but right now) and thats his position. If he cannot play there then he has no spot in the team.

Have to agree - Sam's boyd can't be relied on - not being able to see out a season in 6/7 years doesn't bode well for him.

However I'll disagree on the defensive side. At the start of the year I commented how comfortable and assured he looked under the high ball. He also is one of the few who when he had th eball in defence looked like he had time to find a target.

The one thing that works in Sam's favour - is he is still only 24 - so he could potentially have 6 seasons in him - and he could do a Banfield for us - by being that mature body on the last line.

I love Beau for all his toughness - but he is a liabilty with the ball - especially coming out of defence.

I like what Freo do with their blokes who can't kick. Guys like JVB and De Boer play a role in the forward line where there job is to get involved a little - but largely just tackle and tackle some more.

 

[Pat_Footy]

Bond didn't say anything that everyone wasn't already aware of. Thats the whole debate about who to take at pick #4.

The holes in the team are in the forward line. Lamb and Darling won't be picked at #4 but are really needed. Can't have em all though.

 

[Wirra for PM]

That doesn't sound too promising. If we still have substantial holes in our team now, it's going to mean several more years down the bottom.

That was always on the cards. Our rebound isn't going to come until the current generation of young players are mid-career and the next generation of young players - those we recruit over the next three years - have got 50-odd games experience.

On the other hand if that sounds bad, what's worse is that we climb to about 9th next year, maybe crack the 8 in 012, and then float around that point for the next five years believing we are on the verge but not quite making it a la Richmond.

 

[BOND 007]

Have to agree - Sam's boyd can't be relied on - not being able to see out a season in 6/7 years doesn't bode well for him.

However I'll disagree on the defensive side. At the start of the year I commented how comfortable and assured he looked under the high ball. He also is one of the few who when he had th eball in defence looked like he had time to find a target.

The one thing that works in Sam's favour - is he is still only 24 - so he could potentially have 6 seasons in him - and he could do a Banfield for us - by being that mature body on the last line.

I love Beau for all his toughness - but he is a liabilty with the ball - especially coming out of defence.

I like what Freo do with their blokes who can't kick. Guys like JVB and De Boer play a role in the forward line where there job is to get involved a little - but largely just tackle and tackle some more.

1) I agree that Butler is a composed player no matter where - its why WC like him. Like you I hope he comes good but history suggests players who are injury prone tend to remain so
2) I also agree that Watters is a liability coming out of defence with his kicking. Unfortunately becuase he was one of the senior players back there last year, he demanded the ball and was given it and the result was inevitable. It is why in another thread I suggested that Hurn and Sheppard play HB and leave Watters for BP where not only is the play slower and more condensed (allowing him to use his aggression) but it stops him for being seen as the distributor from the backline. I dont have a problem with him being a HFF (cant be a FP cause he cant kick) as he can cause mayhem through the HF line and hinder clean ball out
3) JVB played mainly defense last year with DeBoer playing fwd giving them the tackling strength they needed in both sections. If you want Watters fwd then Mcginnity or Selwood plays BP and no where else - and their job is to hand the ball off to Hurn and/or Sheppard.

Actually when you think of Watters, Selwood snr, Glass, Mackenzie, Mcginnity and Schofield all playing backline its no wonder

a) that Butler was played back and
b) WC had massive trouble finding good quality ball to midfielders.

Has there ever been such a bunch of useless kicks confined in one part of the field ever ?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I always argue the point with EMac's kicking.

I actually think the guy is a decent kick - it''s just when he shanks one - he really shanks it.

I remember Leigh Montagna missing the ball in the opening minutes of the 2009 GF when he tried to kick it. It's what Emac is prone to do.

But similarly - you often see with EMac that he can be under the pump and spot up a target on his opposite foot with consumate ease.

It really pisses me off - because his poor kicks seem to be more mental/concentration, rather than technique

 

[sTeeL]

Although I personally don't have a problem with Waters kicking, I think he is best used on the HFF. That aggression would be perfect in the forward half as well as he has a decent tank.

Much better option than Nicoski.

 

[Pat_Footy]

If Nicoski can start playing the way he used to - long raking goals on the run then I want him playing. It's a very big if and he disappointed this year. He just looked lazy. He had the talent a few years ago so he should still have it.
He might be the surprise packet this year.

 

[WCE_phil]

Although I personally don't have a problem with Waters kicking, I think he is best used on the HFF. That aggression would be perfect in the forward half as well as he has a decent tank.

Much better option than Nicoski.

Waters also happens to be a great mark.

 

[neng]

If Nicoski can start playing the way he used to - long raking goals on the run then I want him playing. It's a very big if and he disappointed this year. He just looked lazy. He had the talent a few years ago so he should still have it.
He might be the surprise packet this year.

Oh that big raking kick everyone has been searching for since that goal he kicked in the 05 grand final. Good luck

 

[Pat_Footy]

Oh that big raking kick everyone has been searching for since that goal he kicked in the 05 grand final. Good luck

That's one of only two I can remember... ha
The other was in that comeback against Geelong. I'm hoping !

 

[placebo]

But similarly - you often see with EMac that he can be under the pump and spot up a target on his opposite foot with consumate ease.

yeah, it's funny, my friend and I have noticed how he and Waters very rarely miss a target on their opposite foots. We actually feel more comfortable when they do wheel on their opposites, ha.

 

[Double the Fist]

I think he's on par with Waters, he's as good defensivly and will put his body on the line. He's also a superior kick and decision maker than Waters.

Saw this....

There is no doubt he is a superior footballer but I believe WC need the mongrel that Watters offers down back, more than the superior skills that Butler offers in the same position (BP)

Then this post saved me the trouble of replying.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Do you think Butler puts his body on the line enough? Even if he lacks some of the 1%ers and Mongrel, If he is as good defensivly and Butlers better exiting defence it's a no brainer IMO.

Id wait for the season and i might feel differently. Water had his moments, it's a love hate relationship and his kicking fell away as the season wore on.

 

[bodazoka]

Do you think Butler puts his body on the line enough? Even if he lacks some of the 1%ers and Mongrel, If he is as good defensivly and Butlers better exiting defence it's a no brainer IMO.

Id wait for the season and i might feel differently. Water had his moments, it's a love hate relationship and his kicking fell away as the season wore on.

Butler >>> Waters especially in defence.

Waters has far superior determination than most players but Butler is more skilled, smarter and just as likely to help out a team mate in defence. God I wished these guys were able to string 2 complete seasons together.

They both bring different skill sets and IMO are both very very important players for different reasons. Both deffinately in the best 10 (all players fully fit).

EDIT - Isnt the HF line the ones most responsible for kicking to leading forwards??? yet people want Waters to play there....

 

[bodazoka]

That doesn't sound too promising. If we still have substantial holes in our team now, it's going to mean several more years down the bottom.

Thats pretty obvious though isnt it?

I can think of 5 positions at least that aernt set in stone, even with the young kids coming through. FF, FP, C, BP, 2nd Ruck