Swine Flu

[BomberGal]

On topic, I had it. Or so they think. I ain't lettin' nobody take my blood.

It was shit, but generally no big deal. Took a couple of days off work, but stayed drugged up and I did OK. I've never had the flu before so that's what made it hardest for me.

What was weird was that I didn't exactly, er, cut off intimate relations...and he never caught it. Lucky I guess.

 

[medusala]

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...decline-pd20090723-U7RVB?OpenDocument&src=spb

A senior immunologist told me privately yesterday that 70 per cent of the Australian population would end up getting swine flu.

 

[Eagle87]

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...decline-pd20090723-U7RVB?OpenDocument&src=spb

A senior immunologist told me privately yesterday that 70 per cent of the Australian population would end up getting swine flu.

Wow, Kohler is DR!!

Influenza has always been tough. The fact that most Aussie's call the common cold "the flu" is what makes this seem worse - i.e. generally we have NFI what we are talking about re flu.

The Roxon figure of 6,000 which Kohler suggests is "bad" needs to be seen in context (a) its a bloody guess and (b) we have 3,000 deaths a year attributed to flu .... so while higher its hardly the end of the world.

He wanders into alarmism re the tamiflu resistance. Some seasonal flu's are also resistant and tamiflu has always been ineffective in a small section of the population for ALL flu's.

Alert and not alarmed.... when financial journalists start talking about it we have arrived at alarm....

 

[Dry Rot]

He wanders into alarmism re the tamiflu resistance. Some seasonal flu's are also resistant and tamiflu has always been ineffective in a small section of the population for ALL flu's.

FWIW, all seasonal in Australia for last couple of years IIRC is Tamiflu

- Alan K

 

[Dry Rot]

On topic, I had it. Or so they think. I ain't lettin' nobody take my blood.

It was shit, but generally no big deal. Took a couple of days off work, but stayed drugged up and I did OK. I've never had the flu before so that's what made it hardest for me.

What was weird was that I didn't exactly, er, cut off intimate relations...and he never caught it. Lucky I guess.

What's weird, especially given your background, is that you showed no regard for your colleagues or partner re staying clear of people if you're infected.

Well done.

 

[Eagle87]

What's weird, especially given your background, is that you showed no regard for your colleagues or partner re staying clear of people if you're infected.

Well done.

I understand your sentiment, but realistically what is a person to do?

Its likely that you are able to infect others before you have really are aware of what you have and its pretty hard to check your family/partner into a hotel for a week while enforcing some sort of quarantine..

Thats the great joy of flu, easily transmitted, everywhere and pretty blood hard to stop. Hence my comments previously asking what the hell can we actually do about it?

 

[Dry Rot]

I understand your sentiment, but realistically what is a person to do?

Its likely that you are able to infect others before you have really are aware of what you have and its pretty hard to check your family/partner into a hotel for a week while enforcing some sort of quarantine..

Thats the great joy of flu, easily transmitted, everywhere and pretty blood hard to stop. Hence my comments previously asking what the hell can we actually do about it?

In her case, she could have stayed at home from work for a few more days as per public health warnings, and the partner could have at least slept in another room.

 

[BomberGal]

What's weird, especially given your background, is that you showed no regard for your colleagues or partner re staying clear of people if you're infected.

Well done.

Excuse me?

I'm sure I just said I took a couple of days off work. Did I not?

Not only that, but where I work has a swine flu clinic - free exposure for everyone!

My boss, upon coming into contact with someone else who had it, called infection control (it's a hospital) - who said there was no more reason to stay at home than if you had a regular flu. And yes, you are infectious before you realise you are sick - I developed the illness during the day (a Thursday) at work, left, and didn't come back until Tuesday. By Monday I would have been OK to work, but I stayed home anyway since I was coughing everywhere. So I'll have you take that back, please. (In fact I probably bloody caught it in the hospital, so you know, perhaps I should have stayed there?)

As for my partner, it's his choice. It was very likely at this stage he would already have caught it from me if he was going to get it (as mentioned - you are contagious before you're symptomatic). In fact we've almost never caught anything from each other. And as a fellow scientist he probably didn't give a rat's arse - in fact I know he doesn't - it's not HIV, after all. It's a flu. Mild at that. Don't tell me you avoid all intimacy with a partner when even mildly sick! BTW, I live alone - not that it's any of your business. So he wasn't exposed 24/7, and while I was in the worst of it, only came over to check up on me. Christ, had he tried to pull any moves while I was that sick I might have killed him.

Seriously, DR, I expected better than crappy assumptions from you.

 

[bunsen burner]

I have swine flu right now.

Horrible. It's already 2nd in my hall of fame after glandular fever. I had a flu in 93 where I hallucinated that there was a dude in the corner of my roonm with a knife, and had a bad one in 03 where I hallucinated a spider the size of me head climbing up my bedroom wall. Swine flu has beaten those ones out.

My 3 year old son had 40 degree temps for 11 out of 12 days. Then my partner and 5 year old daughter got it. 7th day for them today, 5th for me. I seem to be fairing better because I went on tamiflu. But I did cough something up that was rhubarb in colour, had the firmness of kevlar, and looked like spawn of the Alien.

We went to the docs on Sunday night. A few things I noticed:

1. No face masks available
2. No quarantine available
3. A pregnant girl was allowed to sit in the heavily infected waiting room (pretty sure we weren't the only ones with swine flu)

Also noticed my employer expected doctors notes for every day sick or no pay (this is their standard rule). Hey staff, if you have swine flu, make sure you go to the docs and spread it. When your sick note runs out, go back and spread it some more. And if you don't have swine flu, make sure you go and visit a (high risk) infected area. Idiots.

I think our health department could have had a better education program on this without causing undue alarm.

 

[BomberGal]

1. No face masks available
2. No quarantine available
3. A pregnant girl was allowed to sit in the heavily infected waiting room (pretty sure we weren't the only ones with swine flu)

The last one really is shoddy, but it should probably apply in flu season for all flus, not just swine flu. Any flu can do some serious damage.

In light of that, do you think face masks should be available in a clinic/what have you for every flu season? Would you have felt more comfortable if people with the flu wore them, or everyone? I think they've shown it's only effective to wear them if you have the flu. Just curious on your thoughts re: making clinics safer.

I think the quarantine is a difficult issue. Virus is shed everywhere, all the time, and what the line should be between those who have it and those who don't, I don't know. It's probably really hard for a clinic to justify quarantine when regular flu victims aren't quarantined, and when you can't actually tell who does or doesn't have it. The swine flu clinic at the RCH initially had a quarantine, which was split into regular flu vs swine flu. The problem was, they couldn't actually tell who had which flu except for assumptions made about exposure. And I think by that stage it's too late. What if someone who feels they have it goes into this quarantined area, but turns out they're not sick?

I understand the point of wanting not to infect others, but it's how to administrate this that's the issue.

PS - the cough is a bitch, isn't it?

 

[bunsen burner]

The last one really is shoddy, but it should probably apply in flu season for all flus, not just swine flu. Any flu can do some serious damage.

Agreed. Swine flu is essentially just another flu - albeit one tipped to kell more than usual.

In light of that, do you think face masks should be available in a clinic/what have you for every flu season? Would you have felt more comfortable if people with the flu wore them, or everyone? I think they've shown it's only effective to wear them if you have the flu. Just curious on your thoughts re: making clinics safer.

Absolutely - assuming they are of some value.

I've always had a problem with our health system in that there is not really any real effort to quarantine or reduce spreading in our medical centres.

I might be healthy but have to go and get my script for asthma updated and wait in a medical centre for an hour around sick people. Next day I come down with something.

They need a system where contact with contagious people at medical centres is minimalised. Maybe a separate room or area. Maybe an express aisle for script renewals only. At the very very least masks should be given out to anyone with anything contagious. I've lost count of how many times I have been sick from walking into a medical centre.

I think the quarantine is a difficult issue. Virus is shed everywhere, all the time, and what the line should be between those who have it and those who don't, I don't know. It's probably really hard for a clinic to justify quarantine when regular flu victims aren't quarantined, and when you can't actually tell who does or doesn't have it. The swine flu clinic at the RCH initially had a quarantine, which was split into regular flu vs swine flu. The problem was, they couldn't actually tell who had which flu except for assumptions made about exposure. And I think by that stage it's too late. What if someone who feels they have it goes into this quarantined area, but turns out they're not sick?

As you said before - whether it's swine flu or some other flu is irrelevent. people should walk to the counter and reception should ask if they have cold or flu. If yes, here is your mask, or go into that room down there.

I understand the point of wanting not to infect others, but it's how to administrate this that's the issue.

Not easy but I think it can be handled better.

PS - the cough is a bitch, isn't it?

I didn't/don't have a cough. Intense unrelenting fevers and sore throat. No sneezing. Clear nasal mucus.

The night I was in the medical centre with the pregnant girl there was this little 3 year old walking around coughing everywhere. The mother didn't seem to register her child was spraying everyone with germs, and the receptionist too looked disinterested. I was just sitting there thinking wtf? Are we in a 3rd world country here?

 

[Dry Rot]

Excuse me?

Seriously, DR, I expected better than crappy assumptions from you.

Let's see what the problem is here.

So this

It was shit, but generally no big deal. Took a couple of days off work, but stayed drugged up and I did OK. I've never had the flu before so that's what made it hardest for me.

actually means this

I developed the illness during the day (a Thursday) at work, left, and didn't come back until Tuesday. By Monday I would have been OK to work, but I stayed home anyway since I was coughing everywhere. .

And this

What was weird was that I didn't exactly, er, cut off intimate relations...and he never caught it. Lucky I guess.

actually means this

while I was in the worst of it, only came over to check up on me. Christ, had he tried to pull any moves while I was that sick I might have killed him.

Assumptions? I can only hope you write with more clarity at your work.

 

[Dry Rot]

I have swine flu right now.

My 3 year old son had 40 degree temps for 11 out of 12 days. Then my partner and 5 year old daughter got it. 7th day for them today, 5th for me. I seem to be fairing better because I went on tamiflu. But I did cough something up that was rhubarb in colour, had the firmness of kevlar, and looked like spawn of the Alien.

How long after the first symptoms did you start taking Tamiflu?

 

[BomberGal]

Let's see what the problem is here.

So this

actually means this



And this

actually means this


Assumptions? I can only hope you write with more clarity at your work.

Haha. Oh, DR, trying to backtrack. It's very dangerous to make an assumption about how long 'a couple of days off work' is.

Not only that, but the last one - re 'intimate relations' - still means exactly what it says. The first statement is not affected by the second. I didn't cut anything out completely while sick - what stopped me was feeling shit, not the fear of spreading it (that was kinda obvious - worried that you missed it). Given that you seem to think one should be completely separated from a partner/family while sick, I would have thought exposing him like that even after the first couple of days were over would horrify you. Be consistent!

Also, you made an assumption that I lived with said partner. That was really stupid.

You only made those assumptions because you are being ridiculously alarmist about the issue and wanted to fire some shots my way to lend support to your own argument. Not because of problems with my writing.

 

[bunsen burner]

How long after the first symptoms did you start taking Tamiflu?

24 hours.

Doc said you have to have it within first 48 hours or ineffective. I started feeling symptons 24-48 after my partner and right now I still have a throat attacked by 1000 penises and a bit of lethargia, but otherwise fine. My partner is still getting temps and severe sweats.

Tamiflu. Hip hip hooray!

 

[Dry Rot]

Haha. Oh, DR, trying to backtrack. It's very dangerous to make an assumption about how long 'a couple of days off work' is.

Not only that, but the last one - re 'intimate relations' - still means exactly what it says. The first statement is not affected by the second. I didn't cut anything out completely while sick - what stopped me was feeling shit, not the fear of spreading it (that was kinda obvious - worried that you missed it). Given that you seem to think one should be completely separated from a partner/family while sick, I would have thought exposing him like that even after the first couple of days were over would horrify you. Be consistent!

Also, you made an assumption that I lived with said partner. That was really stupid.

You only made those assumptions because you are being ridiculously alarmist about the issue and wanted to fire some shots my way to lend support to your own argument. Not because of problems with my writing.

No backtracking - just pointing out your lack of clarity.

But when you post something like "It's very dangerous to make an assumption about how long 'a couple of days off work' is.", you clearly have no idea about this concept.

And when people refer to their "partner", I think most people would assume that they live together. Of course, you could be like many Gen Y's and still live with your parents I suppose.

 

[Dry Rot]

24 hours.

Doc said you have to have it within first 48 hours or ineffective. I started feeling symptons 24-48 after my partner and right now I still have a throat attacked by 1000 penises and a bit of lethargia, but otherwise fine. My partner is still getting temps and severe sweats.

Tamiflu. Hip hip hooray!

Ok, thanks. Sounds you like you took it a lot earlier than many and it's reduced your symptoms. I'm still pondering the description of your throat...

Hope you're feeling better soon.

 

[bunsen burner]

Ok, thanks. Sounds you like you took it a lot earlier than many and it's reduced your symptoms. I'm still pondering the description of your throat...

That only made it to number 2 in my "things that I have coughed up" hall of fame.

 

[campbell]

That only made it to number 2 in my "things that I have coughed up" hall of fame.

love your lovely description. lol. so so honest and clear....

and forgot to say hope you and the family get over it soon.

 

[Dry Rot]

If you do get crook, this is a well regarded guide to home treatment

http://www.birdflumanual.com/resour...les/Good Home Treatment of Influenza 10pt.pdf

 

[BomberGal]

But when you post something like "It's very dangerous to make an assumption about how long 'a couple of days off work' is.", you clearly have no idea about this concept.

Sure. I could have worked part time for all you know. There could have been many things. All you did was accuse me of having no respect for colleagues without asking. If something is so unclear to you, ask, don't accuse.

And when people refer to their "partner", I think most people would assume that they live together. Of course, you could be like many Gen Y's and still live with your parents I suppose.

Wow, how patronising. I'm 23 and in my sixth year of living out of home and paying those big nasty bills and rent all by myself, but thanks. (In fact I already told you I live alone - tells me more about your comprehension, not my clarity!)

By the way - you used the word partner first, without checking what the nature of the relationship was. I said I didn't cut off 'intimate relations', trying to be light-hearted about it. You took from this that I lived with someone. I don't know many people who assume that couples in their early 20s (don't tell me you thought I was any older) live together.

 

[campbell]

A bit of tension up north over a suspected swine flu death. They have sent in extra police, taken the doctor from the community. Over kill by Qld health perhaps.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25831402-3102,00.html

 

[Dry Rot]

Why the high number of deaths in Argentina and the explosion of cases in the UK?

Explosion of UK Pandemic H1N1 Cases Raises Concerns
Recombinomics Commentary 16:02
July 24, 2009

Produced by Nottingham University's Division of Primary Care the figures show the rate of infections recorded in GPs' surgeries across England, Wales and Northern Ireland. You can see from this exactly how bad Tower Hamlets is - and which areas have the lowest rates.

The above comments describe the newly released data on the location of pandemic H1N1 cases in the UK. The 49,611 cases have been added to the map of confirmed and probable cases to provide a snapshot of cases a week ago. There have been an additional 100,000 cases reported in the latest HPA report.

These data compliment the reports from the HPA, which had issued daily reports through July 2. At that time confirmed cases were in the range of 600 per day, and reporting was switched to a weekly schedule. However, the July 9 report did not show confirmed cases beyond July 2. Moreover, the July 16 weekly report also failed to include any confirmed cases after July 2, although the ILI (influenza like illness) graph continued to show an alarming explosion of cases. These increases in cases were accompanied by a jump in fatalities, but there was little information on the location of these cases.

The release of the rates of ILI by location allowed for mapping of the cases throughout the UK, including a detailed map of outbreaks in the Greater London area.

These cases have put a strain on emergency services and at least one patient was flown to Sweden for treatment due to a lack of hospital beds and specialized treatment for critical cases.

It remains unclear if the explosion in cases in the UK is linked to genetic changes. Influenza season in the northern hemisphere is begins in the fall and peaks in February, in marked contrast to the current pandemic. The persistence and spread of cases in the summer may be linked to an avian PB2, which is adapted to the body temperature of birds (41 C).

However, the explosion of cases in the UK raises concerns of additional genetic changes.

The rise in cases began in the West Midlands several weeks ago, and the number of H1N1 sequences released by the UK has been limited. Recently Argentina announced that H1N1 associated with the explosion of cases and fatalities in Argentina has 8 amino acid changes.

Release of series of H1N1 sequences from the UK and Argentina would be useful. Further adaptation to human hosts is expected and the increases in cases and fatalities may reflect minor genetic changes that produces significant changes in transmission and virulence.

The sudden jump in cases and deaths are growing causes of concern.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/07240901/H1N1_UK_Explode.html

Argentina Flu Death Mystery Sparks Probe for Virus Mutation

By Eliana Raszewski and Jason Gale

July 24 (Bloomberg) -- Scientists wondering why swine flu has killed more people in Argentina than almost any other nation are studying whether a more dangerous mutant has emerged.

The Latin American country has reported more than 130 deaths from the pandemic H1N1 flu virus since June. Analyses of specimens taken from two severely ill patients showed subtle genetic differences in the virus, the International Society for Infectious Diseases said in a report via its ProMED-mail program yesterday.

Scientists from Columbia University and Argentina’s National Institute of Infectious Diseases now plan to decode the complete genomic sequences of at least 150 virus samples over the next 10 days to gauge the frequency of the changes and whether they are linked to more severe illness. Major changes in the pandemic virus could erode the effectiveness of vaccines being prepared to fight the scourge.

“We are cautious about the findings until we have more sequences,” said Gustavo Palacios, assistant professor of clinical epidemiology at Columbia University, who is participating in the study. The changes already noted haven’t previously been associated with greater virulence, he said today in a telephone interview from New York.

Roche Holding AG’s 454 Life Sciences unit, which makes genetic-sequencing technology, is helping to decode viruses swabbed from patients’ noses and throats. The sequence data will be shared with other scientists for broader analysis, according to ProMED.....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aljo5vnxK3z8

 

[campbell]

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25833101-5003402,00.html


good to see the little girl didnt have any flu. So so sad that she died though.

 

[Bunnie]

Sure. I could have worked part time for all you know. There could have been many things. All you did was accuse me of having no respect for colleagues without asking. If something is so unclear to you, ask, don't accuse.



Wow, how patronising. I'm 23 and in my sixth year of living out of home and paying those big nasty bills and rent all by myself, but thanks. (In fact I already told you I live alone - tells me more about your comprehension, not my clarity!)

By the way - you used the word partner first, without checking what the nature of the relationship was. I said I didn't cut off 'intimate relations', trying to be light-hearted about it. You took from this that I lived with someone. I don't know many people who assume that couples in their early 20s (don't tell me you thought I was any older) live together.

Hey BG...thought I would pop in on the whole partner thing. It is a generational term. To quite a lot of us fossils, a 'partner' is taken to mean one you are in a de facto (as in living with but not married to) arrangement with, or a person of the same sex with whom you have a loving live-in relationship with. The term partner became a more socially acceptable and less offensive way of referring to a defacto when defacto became a 'sullied' word. If you had said boyfriend/girlfriend then DR may not have assumed you were living together.

cheers
bunnie